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  1. #181
    Join Date
    May 2004
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    Madison,WI
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    18,445
    I think this is very accurate to how many of us feel. I love Kubes. Hes been insturmenal here as a coordinator, coach, leader, and friend.

    But his offensive system has been pretty stale for years. I think his scouting abilities (if he no longer will be with us) is what we will miss the most.

  2. #182
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
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    48

  3. #183
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Las Manzanitas, NM
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    30,250
    For Vic Fangio to succeed, he must have assistants who totally buy in, support and are capable of implementing his philosophy. He will be held responsible for the results, so he must have the final say on staff.
    "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

  4. #184
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
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    4,776
    Quote Originally Posted by samparnell View Post
    For Vic Fangio to succeed, he must have assistants who totally buy in, support and are capable of implementing his philosophy. He will be held responsible for the results, so he must have the final say on staff.
    As it should be IMO. A HC should be hired because it is felt he can be the one man that can implement a plan or direction of a team .

    HC should be able to assemble the staff he thinks can achieve that goal. He and his staff then should have significant influence on the type of players he needs on the roster. Perhaps more suggestions then total control but he is the one driving the vision..HC and GM have to be a coordinated team throughout.

    What concerns me most about this dysfunctional relationship with Kubiak is that it happened at all. What was the discussions and vision in the interview process? Kubiak has been in the building the entire time, it just now comes out that he has philosophical differences with the offense? What were they all taking about in setting the parameters of the potential HCs?

    Troubling to me that the FO does not have a plan. They are making it up as they go. That lack of team and organizational identity and any cohesive long term vision is why the Broncos are such a mess right now. This Kubiak fiasco just shies another very bright spotlight on it.

    Really disappointing.

  5. #185
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    12,551
    Quote Originally Posted by Bronkko View Post
    To this day, Gary has won 3 Lombardi trophies for the Broncos, from the offensive side, and Fangio ZERO...


    But the human mind forgets fast ...
    You might be conflating things here. It can just as easily be said that Kubiak has won zero trophy's for the Broncos from the defensive side.

  6. #186
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Nelson, BC
    Posts
    17,056
    I love me some kubiac but I would rather a young offensive coordinator with a modern scheme..
    http://s7.postimg.org/hjr8fcmaz/EM2.jpg

    Adopted Broncos: Garett Bolles

  7. #187
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    6,423
    I like Gary but he was a complete idiot for FORCING his broke system on Manning.

    This will be a good thing
    Last edited by rst08tierney; 01-12-2019 at 12:34 PM.

  8. #188
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    1,225
    Quote Originally Posted by FR Tim View Post
    As it should be IMO. A HC should be hired because it is felt he can be the one man that can implement a plan or direction of a team .

    HC should be able to assemble the staff he thinks can achieve that goal. He and his staff then should have significant influence on the type of players he needs on the roster. Perhaps more suggestions then total control but he is the one driving the vision..HC and GM have to be a coordinated team throughout.

    What concerns me most about this dysfunctional relationship with Kubiak is that it happened at all. What was the discussions and vision in the interview process? Kubiak has been in the building the entire time, it just now comes out that he has philosophical differences with the offense? What were they all taking about in setting the parameters of the potential HCs?

    Troubling to me that the FO does not have a plan. They are making it up as they go. That lack of team and organizational identity and any cohesive long term vision is why the Broncos are such a mess right now. This Kubiak fiasco just shies another very bright spotlight on it.

    Really disappointing.
    What makes you think that Kubiak had any input in setting the parameters for a new head coach, or that hs SHOULD have any input?

    The Broncos are essentially changing direction. Coaches are either on board with that or they're not. Why should the Broncos have known all along that Kubiak wouldn't be on board with a change of direction?
    Last edited by Socnorb11; 01-12-2019 at 12:26 PM.

  9. #189
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    The 5280
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    10,873
    Quote Originally Posted by Socnorb11 View Post
    What makes you think that Kubiak had any input in setting the parameters for a new head coach, or that hs SHOULD have any input?

    The Broncos are essentially changing direction. Coaches are either on board with that or they're not. Why should the Broncos have known all along that Kubiak wouldn't be on board with a change of direction?
    I read that no super bowl winning head coach has ever downgraded to any other position less. Its never happened, perhaps kubiak did not want to be the first to do so.

  10. #190
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    869
    Quote Originally Posted by rst08tierney View Post
    I like Gary but he was a complete idiot for FORCING his broke system on Manning.

    This will be a good thing

    For the record, it wasn't Kubiak's fault, it was Elway's. During the abysmal 2014 season, right around the times of the Ram's game, Elway stated that we needed to incorporate running plays into the offense to help it succeed. Because of that Divine Ignorance, Manning's offensive playcalling changed, then Kubiak came in to fulfill Elway's wishes which also hamstrung Manning.
    I believe.

  11. #191
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    1,069
    6-10 next year

  12. #192
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Ozarks
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    12,379
    Quote Originally Posted by rst08tierney View Post
    I like Gary but he was a complete idiot for FORCING his broke system on Manning.

    This will be a good thing
    If he had not done that we would not have another SB. PM was not doing our D favors by not running the ball more and by turnovers. That is a big part of the reason we hadn't won a SB with Manning yet.It is not coincidence that Kubes comes in and changes the offense and we do win it. In addition, Kubes also had enough guts to bench Manning when he was costing us and took Brock Osweiler and won 5 out of 7 games including the Patsies and home field. Fox would never have benched Manning nor would a lot of other HCs. That Defense would never have made it to the SB without Kubes making the right moves at the right time throughout that year. We won all throughout that year because of our D and our HC handling of our offense. It certainly had nothing to do with PM's play itself. Kubes helped us win inspite of it. PM biggest contributions that year were with his head not hands.
    And every player on that team especially Manning should thank Kubes for making the moves he did, cause they all have rings because of it.

  13. #193
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Ozarks
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    12,379
    Quote Originally Posted by XterraRob View Post
    For the record, it wasn't Kubiak's fault, it was Elway's. During the abysmal 2014 season, right around the times of the Ram's game, Elway stated that we needed to incorporate running plays into the offense to help it succeed. Because of that Divine Ignorance, Manning's offensive playcalling changed, then Kubiak came in to fulfill Elway's wishes which also hamstrung Manning.
    I would venture to say Manning with his play hamstrung the team and Kubes. There is a reason he got benched and a reason Kubes won 5 of 7 with Brock Osweiler including the Pats and home field. Tell me who else has been successful with Brock?

  14. #194
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Posts
    48

  15. #195
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    4,776
    Quote Originally Posted by Socnorb11 View Post
    What makes you think that Kubiak had any input in setting the parameters for a new head coach, or that hs SHOULD have any input?

    The Broncos are essentially changing direction. Coaches are either on board with that or they're not. Why should the Broncos have known all along that Kubiak wouldn't be on board with a change of direction?
    I have no issue with a change of direction. But this reeks of poor communication at the FO level that is not acceptable. Disappointed it ever reached this point.

    I'm assuming Elway and Kubiak had a few discussions on the future direction, HC search and how to fix the Broncos. They have only known each other for 30 years and Kubiak is currently a Football Consultant for the Broncos. Typically he is credited for the last draft and intimately involved with the Broncos decision making. So you are assuming Kubiak did not or should not have any input or insight in a HC search or direction of the team now?

    And if he was not on board with a new offensive direction or asst coaches being hired shouldn't that be resolved before they essentially announce him as the new OC?

    At some point over the last abysmal weeks of the season or over beers since it has ended there was never any indication that Elway was thinking of a new innovative offense and Kubiak might not be as enthusiastic about that direction? The philosophical differences just magically appeared or long standing?

    This just looks bad from an business organization standpoint. Broncos are in need of showing some stability. If this was a Fortune 500 company that just had the poor showings the past couple years and something similar had happened with a new Executive that bailed at the last moment the stock would plummet.

    Elway has a lot of work to do, from the top to bottom. This was unnecessary and unprofessional IMO. He's got to be better.

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