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  1. #1336
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    May 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by jflee66 View Post
    Imo, Lock isn't going to be a great NFL starter, he might get better as he grows, of course, but it's going to take years. At this time JF is way ahead of him in NFL readiness. If JF gets hurt and Lock is put in it could possible hinder his confidence and his game at this point. If JF takes us to POs then I would certainly keep him and make Lock prove he's capable of running an NFL Offense. After 3 years we will know what we have in Lock just by preseasons and training camp competition.
    It worked for Aaron Rodgers, so hopefully, it could work for Lock.

    Lock has a "guru QB coach" in Scangarello, the attitude to succeed, time to improve his game, plus an improving OL under Munchak.

    Unfortunately, in this era of instant gratification, Lock may start sooner than later.
    Hopefully, Flacco and Lock both succeed in Denver for many years to come.

    The only thing about Rodgers that surprises me is that he's only won one SB.

  2. #1337
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    Nick Ferguson predicted the Broncos would go 12-4 in 2019. Is the Fangio-Flacco partnership worth 6 wins? Flacco is an average QB throughout his career. Can he all of a sudden become that great?

    I want to see what Lock can do. Word from the mini-camp is he made some mistakes. We'll see what happens come training camp.

  3. #1338
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    Quote Originally Posted by Papa-pwn View Post
    Lol what. You can't be serious. You want Lock to sit 3 years and you actually believe that will be enough to get a good feel for what kind of player he is?

    As far as NFL readiness, it is likely that Flacco is ahead of him. Slightly. Flacco has been outplayed by many rookies the last few years, it would not be unheard of for that to continue.

    Back to your comment about 3 years of practice being enough lol.. so we start Lock for his 4th and final season, and hope to maybe extend him if he shows promise in that one year, risking potentially overpaying due to the one year sample size or risk not paying him due to the aforementioned one year sample size, then he goes elsewhere and possibly has immense success. That would be such a terrible chain of events I cant even fathom how it would feel. Especially considering that would mean we would start a bottom 10 QB in flacco for 3 years.. and you sound like that's what you want? Good God it's like some of you have gotten used to how had we've been the last three years and want that to continue.
    This is one statement that I can say I agree with you on, Lock is not sitting for 3 years...

    I donít agree with your harsh criticism of Joe Flacco but there is no way Elway keeps Lock on the bench. It doesnít matter if Flacco goes 12-4 and is league MVP, Elway is not paying him a butt load of money when heís got Lock!

  4. #1339
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    Quote Originally Posted by Papa-pwn View Post
    It will be nice to have 5 preseason games, for both Lock and the rest of the young players. 48 days until the first preseason game!
    It canít get here fast enough (although I donít like to wish time away)!

  5. #1340
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam_Z View Post
    This is one statement that I can say I agree with you on, Lock is not sitting for 3 years...

    I don’t agree with your harsh criticism of Joe Flacco but there is no way Elway keeps Lock on the bench. It doesn’t matter if Flacco goes 12-4 and is league MVP, Elway is not paying him a butt load of money when he’s got Lock!
    Lynch was a first rounder and he sat for 3yrs behind average QBs. If were going to the PO's with JF, why wouldn't you keep him till he fizzles. 20 mil. isn't much now days for a PO QB. If JF takes us to the PO's and they decide to change to Lock, I would think a large sector of fans would be very disappointed. I know I would. Unless Lock starts to shine like Mahomes somewhere along the way.

  6. #1341
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    Jun 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by jflee66 View Post
    Lynch was a first rounder and he sat for 3yrs behind average QBs. If were going to the PO's with JF, why wouldn't you keep him till he fizzles. 20 mil. isn't much now days for a PO QB. If JF takes us to the PO's and they decide to change to Lock, I would think a large sector of fans would be very disappointed. I know I would. Unless Lock starts to shine like Mahomes somewhere along the way.
    It really depends on the situation. If Flacco is being carried by the defense but still making the playoffs you have to look at a better long term replacement

  7. #1342
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    Apr 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by jflee66 View Post
    Lynch was a first rounder and he sat for 3yrs behind average QBs. If were going to the PO's with JF, why wouldn't you keep him till he fizzles. 20 mil. isn't much now days for a PO QB. If JF takes us to the PO's and they decide to change to Lock, I would think a large sector of fans would be very disappointed. I know I would. Unless Lock starts to shine like Mahomes somewhere along the way.
    This is similar to Jake Plummer being benched for Cutler. We were headed to the playoffs even though Jake a couple poor outings...inserted Cutler...and we fell out of contention.

  8. #1343
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    Quote Originally Posted by BroncoStampede View Post
    Nick Ferguson predicted the Broncos would go 12-4 in 2019. Is the Fangio-Flacco partnership worth 6 wins? Flacco is an average QB throughout his career. Can he all of a sudden become that great?

    I want to see what Lock can do. Word from the mini-camp is he made some mistakes. We'll see what happens come training camp.
    I think the important relation for that success is Munchak-Team Pass protection.

    In addition our OC and what he does. IMO our offense in 2018 was much more talented than the results. What Scangarello does with the talent and experience he has this year will be very interesting.

    My crazy long range prediction machine based on what I have seen up until now says we will probably have an opportunity for a better record in 2019 than 2020. Chargers will be tough and well coached. I think KC takes step back in 2019 and then rebounds real strong in 2020. I think the Raiders are 1 or 2 years from cleaning house.

    Thing is we are right now probably the biggest question mark in the AFC West with imo a legit shot to be last or first in the division in 2019.
    Last edited by Hadez; 06-15-2019 at 09:01 AM.
    Vic Fangio "Von Miller can play better than he has ever played in his career"
    Preventing Death by Inches

  9. #1344
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    Oct 2010
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    I saw a headline on CBS Sports that Said, Elway thinks that Flacco can lead the Broncos to the SUPER BOWL !!!!


  10. #1345
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    Nov 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by beastlyskronk View Post
    It really depends on the situation. If Flacco is being carried by the defense but still making the playoffs you have to look at a better long term replacement
    No sorry!

    It is an absolute misunderstanding about football. The job of the QB is to do enough to win games. If you can play defense and run the ball you do that and then lets your QB be the hero at the end.

    If what you have is a Jay Cutler/Kirk Cousins kind of player that is great against bad teams, and fall apart every time they meet good competition, then you have to look for why that is. Trent Dilfer is the best example of what happens when you don't actually realise that while the defense is dominant the QB is adding the extra juice. Getting rid of Dilfer gave Ravens problems until they got Joe Flacco

  11. #1346
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    The Flacco hype this year is so reminiscent of the Keemun hype last year. Some serious deja vu

  12. #1347
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    I hate to rain on everyone's parade, but Joe Flacco is an average at best QB. Below are his career AV numbers. AV is a metric developed by Pro Football Reference which assigns a value number to a player for a particular season. It's kind of like WAR in baseball, AV just tries to measure a player's value to their team. I went through each season Flacco has been in the NFL and got his rank among all QBs for each season. The AV numbers are in parentheses and the number after it is Flacco's AV rank that season out of all QBs (there are 32 starting QBs in the NFL each season).

    2018 Joe Flacco (7) 26th
    2017 Joe Flacco (9) 22nd
    2016 Joe Flacco (9) 24th
    2015 Joe Flacco (5) 26th
    2014 Joe Flacco (14) 10th
    2013 Joe Flacco (8) 22nd
    2012 Joe Flacco (13) 11th
    2011 Joe Flacco (12) 12th
    2010 Joe Flacco (12) 10th
    2009 Joe Flacco (13) 10th
    2008 Joe Flacco (11) 15th

    For a frame of reference, below are the Broncos QBs for each season from 2008-2018.

    2018 Case Keenum (9) 20th
    2017 Trevor Siemian (4) 33rd
    2016 Trevor Siemian (9) 24th
    2015 Peyton Manning (2) 37th
    2014 Peyton Manning (16) 3rd
    2013 Peyton Manning (19) 1st
    2012 Peyton Manning (15) 7th
    2011 Tim Tebow (8) 20th
    2010 Kyle Orton (11) 16th
    2009 Kyle Orton (11) 14th
    2008 Jay Cutler (15) 6th

    What does all this mean? Well, in 2018 Keenum put up a better AV score than Flacco. With Flacco we should be expecting the same level of QB play we have had the past few years with Keenum and Siemian (except for 2017 when Flacco outplayed Siemian, but was still only a bottom third starting QB).

    Don't expect Flacco to work miracles. He has never been anything besides an average QB (except for one playoff run with an all-time defense, he does deserve his credit for winning a superbowl).

    I personally think that once Lock is even close to ready, you need to play him so he can develop. We know what Flacco is, and it's not good.
    Last edited by BroncoStampede; 06-21-2019 at 09:18 AM. Reason: added Flacco's 2010 numbers

  13. #1348
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    Quote Originally Posted by BroncoFanDK View Post
    No sorry!

    It is an absolute misunderstanding about football. The job of the QB is to do enough to win games. If you can play defense and run the ball you do that and then lets your QB be the hero at the end.

    If what you have is a Jay Cutler/Kirk Cousins kind of player that is great against bad teams, and fall apart every time they meet good competition, then you have to look for why that is. Trent Dilfer is the best example of what happens when you don't actually realise that while the defense is dominant the QB is adding the extra juice. Getting rid of Dilfer gave Ravens problems until they got Joe Flacco
    Dilfer was nothing more than a backup caliber QB. Yes, you can win a Super Bowl with a historic defense and bad QB play, the problem is that formula doesnít produce long term results beyond 1 season. Itís no coincidence that the teams that are playoff/Super Bowl contenders year after year have the best QBs.

    Itís impossible to keep an historic defense together for more than a couple seasons. You canít keep all the same players together, they get hurt, get old, move on to other teams, etc.

    The goal should always be to find a franchise QB and build around that. You keep trying until you get one.

  14. #1349
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    Quote Originally Posted by Broncos-R-Great View Post
    The Flacco hype this year is so reminiscent of the Keemun hype last year. Some serious deja vu
    Yes, I was thinking the exact same thing. Flacco may actually have a hard being as good as Keenum was last year. Keenum outperformed Flacco in 2018 based on AV (which I showed in a previous post in this thread), we actually would have been better off just keeping Keenum and our 4th round pick.

    Also, why isn't anyone asking why Baltimore would get rid of a QB "in his prime" for a measly 4th round draft pick? When Cutler was in his prime, he got us 2 first rounders. Flacco is old and just not very good, and really never was very good (except his magical 2012 post season that will never be replicated by him again - if you think it will, you should probably buy a power ball ticket).

  15. #1350
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    Iíll admit I chugged the Keenum Kool-Aid and that was a huge let down.
    With Flacco whatís different is this is a hand picked guy by Elway. Elway believes in him and feels in the system that doesnít rely on him throwing the ball 35-40 times a game is perfect.
    Yes Keenum was picked by Elway but that was in my opinion him settling and hoping Darnold or Mayfield would be at 5 and Keenum would be the placeholder for a year or two ( something he failed to do with Paxton).

    I donít think Flacco will win the MVP, or even go to the pro bowl but with a solid run game and a great defense Denver could sneak into the playoffs.

    At least thatís my hope in late June.

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