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  1. #1516
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    Flacco , as some keep saying, is here to mentor Lock. Others say he is here to win games. Flacco agrees, he is in Denver to give the Broncos the chance to win. I guarantee he will do his part.
    Rather than wrongly believe he will groom Lock, I know who he will groom.
    He will try to help take Lindseys career to the next level. He will help the young receivers. He will help the Defense by keeping them off the field and rested.
    He will give the team confidence that they can beat any team in the league. That's why Elway brought him to Denver.



    And as Bill Belichick once said " stats are for losers"


    How many times has a qb thrown for over 300 yds and lost the game. Too many times.
    Last edited by crabcruncher; 08-14-2019 at 11:08 AM.

  2. #1517
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    Quote Originally Posted by Papa-pwn View Post
    People just don't appreciate how bad Flacco has been. Especially when talking about deep ball, depth of targets, and accuracy.

    According to PFF, over the last 3 years Flacco has had the 10th lowest average depth of target, even when teams are stacking the box. With less defenders deep, Flacco is still amongst ththe most hesitant to throw deep. Probably because he understands he has not been good at it in a long time.



    Looking into that more specifically, in 2016 Flacco had the 5th lowest average intended air yards per pass at 7.7 his average completed air distance was 4th worst at 5.2 yards. But wait, there's so much more. In situations he threw in pursuit of a 1st down, he threw the ball 1.3 yards short of the 1st down on average. Only 3 QBs threw shorter of the sticks. Knowing this, it is unsurprising that Flacco also threw the 9th least amount of aggressive throws that year. He truly is captain checkdown.

    *aggressive throws are described as throws into tight coverage, where there is a defender within 1 yard or less of the receiver at the time of completion or incompletion

    That was 2016, let's look into 2017.

    2017
    Average intended air yards- 6.6 - 3rd worst

    Average completed air yards- 4.4 - 2nd worst

    Throws at the sticks- short by 2.2 yards - 4th worst

    Aggressive throws- 13.3% - 4th lowest


    https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...cks-all-wrong/



    Now that sounds all well and good, but it's even more bad news for Flacco, who has the 22nd highest completion % in general over the last 3 years. So even with his low depth of target, his accuracy is lacking, complete with being the 29th best in the league for completion % last year.

    For even more context about how truly bad he is at throwing deep, among 49 qualifying QBs with over 300 attempts the last 3 years, he is 44th in yards per passing attempt.
    Love your fascination with stats and numbers to predict the future. You must make a bundle at sports betting. But, I don't see any allocation as to what you would have done in the past to improve the situation as of the here and now. Would you have paid Cousins 35ml a yr. last year, or even Foles this yr? Basically this is the only alternatives we had. Maybe you would have drafted Haskins this year at 10. You're a fantastic critique, but, not much of a cat skinner.
    Last edited by jflee66; 08-14-2019 at 11:17 AM.

  3. #1518
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    Quote Originally Posted by jflee66 View Post
    Love your fascination with stats and numbers to predict the future. You must make a bundle at sports betting. But, I don't see any allocation as to what you would have done in the past to improve the situation as of the here and now. Would you have paid Cousins 35ml a yr. last year, or even Foles this yr? Basically this is the only alternatives we had. Maybe you would have drafted Haskins this year at 10. You're a fantastic critique, but, not much of a cat skinner.
    LOL!!! Nice point.

    "Whinealogs" are simple, and lazy. Solutions are difficult.

  4. #1519
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    Papa, what games of Flacco did you actually watch and break down ? I have asked you before only to be ignored, and then watched you post statistic after statistic to push your point across. Did you watch Joe play last season or not ? If so, what games ? I watched every snap he played, and although I wont sit here and say he is a franchise quarterback who will take us to the Superbowl, he is a lot better than Keenum. If you did watch the games last season that Flacco played in, you would of at least seen that he does 3 things as a quarterback that have been 3 of our biggest problem areas for a few years now.

    1: Joe is at least willing to stand in the pocket, to climb the pocket, all while keeping his eyes down field when bodies are falling around him. Obviously Joe isn't a running threat, but Keenum and Siemian were far too quick to loop out the back of the pocket at the first sight of pressure and kill any chance of the play developing, Joe will stand in there.

    2: Joe has the arm strength to hit those outside areas of the defense. Keenum a year ago, and Siemian a few years earlier, they just didn't have the arm to threaten all areas of the defense, and that allowed teams to play us very aggressive and take away the short throws, they didn't fear either of them. Joe can get the balls to places our quarterbacks recently haven't been able to.

    3: Joe trusts what he sees and is at least willing to pull the trigger. I hated watching Keenum and Siemian hold the ball, loop out the back of the pocket and leave plays on the field because of their refusal to throw it. Joe can't run, he knows to move the ball he has to throw it, so he won't hesitate to give his guys chances through the air, and I am sure we will benefit from that.

    Anyway, you are so far one sided on this you just look incredibly biased. When Drew Lock missed passes, you said "he was close, imagine the stat line if he hit them". But, when Flacco does the same, it's, "look he is inaccurate and always has been". I don't care if ones a rookie or not, that right there exposes the subjectivity in your very clearly lopsided love/hate for certain guys you are discussing. To be fair, you wanted Lock in the top 5, so you obviously fell in love with some of those highlight videos which showed about 10% of the full story with him, it's understandable.

  5. #1520
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    I am glad we have a real NFL QB! I think he will be a professional Athlete at the QB position, something we haven't had in awhile.

  6. #1521
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnlimburg View Post
    Anyway, you are so far one sided on this you just look incredibly biased. When Drew Lock missed passes, you said "he was close, imagine the stat line if he hit them". But, when Flacco does the same, it's, "look he is inaccurate and always has been". I don't care if ones a rookie or not, that right there exposes the subjectivity in your very clearly lopsided love/hate for certain guys you are discussing. To be fair, you wanted Lock in the top 5, so you obviously fell in love with some of those highlight videos which showed about 10% of the full story with him, it's understandable.
    Bolding this for emphasis. The final straw for me is when Lock had an abysmal preseason debut and he talked up his close misses as if they were completions.

    Lock averaged 3.09 yards/attempt. If you're going champion stats as your main measure of success, you have to apply it fairly.

  7. #1522
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capt. Jack View Post
    I am glad we have a real NFL QB! I think he will be a professional Athlete at the QB position, something we haven't had in awhile.
    I feel the same about our coaching.
    “Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.”

    ― Mark Twain



  8. #1523
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    Quote Originally Posted by gtown53 View Post
    LOL!!! Nice point.

    "Whinealogs" are simple, and lazy. Solutions are difficult.
    Thanks man..... we have to have the contrarians or we might be really dissapointed in the end.

  9. #1524
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    Quote Originally Posted by jflee66 View Post
    Thanks man..... we have to have the contrarians or we might be really dissapointed in the end.
    Just a quick blurb...it doesn't have to be 110% for or 110% against. In literally 110% of cases, the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

    I'm just going to wait to watch the games before celebrating our Super Bowl win or 0 - 16 season.

  10. #1525
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    Flacco wouldn’t have been my first choice but options were limited. He still has the talent to play well. The train left the station and he will be the starter.

    The production on offense will be more about the supporting cast IMO. Obviously the quarterback has to play well to succeed, but it starts up front. I believe Bolles, Risner and McGovern will be solid (yes, I said Bolles). McGovern needs work but I believe he will improve over the course of the season. I don’t trust that Leary can stay healthy and it’s a wait and see with James at RT. Again, IF the line comes together I believe the offense should be productive. Lindsay/Freeman behind a solid line should be productive because defenses have to respect Flacco’s arm (even at 34). Despite Sanders coming off the injury I believe he will be a threat, especially with Sutton. The question will once again be the TEs. Fant is talented but he’s a rookie. Heuerman is average and it would be the exception to stay healthy. Hopefully Fant develops quickly.

    We’ll get a better sense of how the offense is coming together over the next two preseason games. When the season starts it will be a work in progress. Good teams find ways to build throughout the season.

  11. #1526
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    Truly I believe this season will depend more on our run game than on Flacco. If our run game takes off, we can expect Flacco to flourish. Our rookie receivers will need that advantage as well.
    Superbowl 50 Champions!

  12. #1527
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheAsianPA View Post
    Truly I believe this season will depend more on our run game than on Flacco. If our run game takes off, we can expect Flacco to flourish. Our rookie receivers will need that advantage as well.
    The receiving corps has been my biggest concern since Sanders got hurt. I was sure that Elway was going to go after an experienced WR in the offseason. You know, somebody who has more than a total of 30 receptions in 6 years as Nick Williams has. But, they didn't. Nobody else amongst the WRs has more than 3 years. I like Sutton, but so far he is certainly no DT. So yeah, a really good running game is going to be crucial for success in the passing game.

  13. #1528
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
    Flacco wouldn’t have been my first choice but options were limited. He still has the talent to play well. The train left the station and he will be the starter.

    The production on offense will be more about the supporting cast IMO. Obviously the quarterback has to play well to succeed, but it starts up front. I believe Bolles, Risner and McGovern will be solid (yes, I said Bolles). McGovern needs work but I believe he will improve over the course of the season. I don’t trust that Leary can stay healthy and it’s a wait and see with James at RT. Again, IF the line comes together I believe the offense should be productive. Lindsay/Freeman behind a solid line should be productive because defenses have to respect Flacco’s arm (even at 34). Despite Sanders coming off the injury I believe he will be a threat, especially with Sutton. The question will once again be the TEs. Fant is talented but he’s a rookie. Heuerman is average and it would be the exception to stay healthy. Hopefully Fant develops quickly.

    We’ll get a better sense of how the offense is coming together over the next two preseason games. When the season starts it will be a work in progress. Good teams find ways to build throughout the season.
    The only two teams to ever go 0-16 were a combined 8-0 in preseason, so I think it is safe to say that preseason is iffy at best as a predictor of team success in the regular season.
    One of the huge limitations of Keenum last year was that he had a very hard time completing longer balls, that had to be thrown with high velocity, and most of the deep balls he did complete got called back for holding etc. Flacco has the ability to put a lot more zip on the ball.

    The O-line was a huge problem as ex. the 2015 was while Osweiler started, so a lot of the litmus test is interaction between QB and o-line, and we know from the painful playoff game in the 12/13 season that the Flacco dude at least knew how to stop Von Miller and Doom.

    Flacco's mojo throughout has been to be good in regular season and great in playoffs, and the thing that determines success or failure in AFC West, is we must be able to beat the Chiefs, and gain at least a Wild Card berth.The minimum expectation must be to at least be in playoff hunt going into week 16.

  14. #1529
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    Quote Originally Posted by BroncoFanDK View Post
    The only two teams to ever go 0-16 were a combined 8-0 in preseason, so I think it is safe to say that preseason is iffy at best as a predictor of team success in the regular season.
    One of the huge limitations of Keenum last year was that he had a very hard time completing longer balls, that had to be thrown with high velocity, and most of the deep balls he did complete got called back for holding etc. Flacco has the ability to put a lot more zip on the ball.

    The O-line was a huge problem as ex. the 2015 was while Osweiler started, so a lot of the litmus test is interaction between QB and o-line, and we know from the painful playoff game in the 12/13 season that the Flacco dude at least knew how to stop Von Miller and Doom.

    Flacco's mojo throughout has been to be good in regular season and great in playoffs, and the thing that determines success or failure in AFC West, is we must be able to beat the Chiefs, and gain at least a Wild Card berth.The minimum expectation must be to at least be in playoff hunt going into week 16.
    Who said preseason records are a predictor of team success in the regular season?

    One of the huge limitations for Keenum was the inability of the line to provide consistent protection. Or, Bolles killing drives with holding calls. Another issue for Keenum was the lack of talent at WR and TE. We know DT wasn’t who he once was. Now we know Sanders’ played with an injured ankle before the achilles tear. Jake Butt tore the ACL just as he was beginning to make an impact. Heuerman was who he is, average. Not to mention Freeman battled injury. Keenum should take blame but let’s not foolishly believe there was a talented supporting cast.

    I hope this team plays better than the last two seasons. They should because that’s not a high bar however, they have to prove they are better.

  15. #1530
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    Quote Originally Posted by jflee66 View Post
    Love your fascination with stats and numbers to predict the future. You must make a bundle at sports betting. But, I don't see any allocation as to what you would have done in the past to improve the situation as of the here and now. Would you have paid Cousins 35ml a yr. last year, or even Foles this yr? Basically this is the only alternatives we had. Maybe you would have drafted Haskins this year at 10. You're a fantastic critique, but, not much of a cat skinner.
    For starters this is a Joe Flacco thread not a "What should we have done instead" thread. However I do personally believe that Flacco, as pwn has called out will likely end up at or below his overall career averages. When you look at Joe's OVERALL career averages he and Case are darn near identical. So again I do have to say that papa's comparison between the two is quite appropriate. IMO- Joe's best case scenario is that he starts to put up similar numbers to what he did in 2014. Comp. %: 62.1, Yards: 3,986, TDs: 27, INTs: 12, Passer Rating: 91.0.

    Now my real issue with Flacco isn't that I don't think he could help us but it is the fact that I am not convinced that he can remain healthy enough to stay on the field given his back issues. Generally speaking when your back starts to go on you I am certain that there is not a doctor in the world that then says to you - "Hey do you know what will make your back get better - go play professional football". In fact all professional players which I have heard speak on this issue (more than 10 of them) have all unanimously stated that backs and knees are typically slow and consistent career enders. Now I was hoping that I'd be able to provide a good stat for Flacco but that is not the case. Between Case and Joe last season Joe had a TT (time to throw) of 2.68 and 2.71 repetitively. This is not a good sign. A major critique I had of Case last year was that he held onto the ball for far too long.

    Now as per your comment about an alternative solution. I was personally not opposed to sticking with Keenum - especially given that Case and Joe have nearly identical stats. I also felt that VJ and our piss poor offensive scheme did not play well into Keenum's strengths at all. If we were 100% sure we did not want to go with Joe or Case then I believe Nick would have been a great option. Especially since I believe Tim & Courtland fit his play style nicely. Alternatively we could have gone the route of Haskins in the draft or Lock in the draft as we did. Throwing a rookie into the fire is always a risk but more often than not that is what will help determine if you have "the guy" or not.

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