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Thread: Flacco

  1. #1591
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnlimburg View Post
    Papa, what games of Flacco did you actually watch and break down ? I have asked you before only to be ignored, and then watched you post statistic after statistic to push your point across. Did you watch Joe play last season or not ? If so, what games ? I watched every snap he played, and although I wont sit here and say he is a franchise quarterback who will take us to the Superbowl, he is a lot better than Keenum. If you did watch the games last season that Flacco played in, you would of at least seen that he does 3 things as a quarterback that have been 3 of our biggest problem areas for a few years now.

    1: Joe is at least willing to stand in the pocket, to climb the pocket, all while keeping his eyes down field when bodies are falling around him. Obviously Joe isn't a running threat, but Keenum and Siemian were far too quick to loop out the back of the pocket at the first sight of pressure and kill any chance of the play developing, Joe will stand in there.

    2: Joe has the arm strength to hit those outside areas of the defense. Keenum a year ago, and Siemian a few years earlier, they just didn't have the arm to threaten all areas of the defense, and that allowed teams to play us very aggressive and take away the short throws, they didn't fear either of them. Joe can get the balls to places our quarterbacks recently haven't been able to.

    3: Joe trusts what he sees and is at least willing to pull the trigger. I hated watching Keenum and Siemian hold the ball, loop out the back of the pocket and leave plays on the field because of their refusal to throw it. Joe can't run, he knows to move the ball he has to throw it, so he won't hesitate to give his guys chances through the air, and I am sure we will benefit from that.

    Anyway, you are so far one sided on this you just look incredibly biased. When Drew Lock missed passes, you said "he was close, imagine the stat line if he hit them". But, when Flacco does the same, it's, "look he is inaccurate and always has been". I don't care if ones a rookie or not, that right there exposes the subjectivity in your very clearly lopsided love/hate for certain guys you are discussing. To be fair, you wanted Lock in the top 5, so you obviously fell in love with some of those highlight videos which showed about 10% of the full story with him, it's understandable.
    I didn't get a response from Papa on this, but I think these 3 points I mentioned were all highlighted in the short amount of playing time that Joe had against Seattle. The play where Joe hung in the pocket for ages, stood tall, shuffled up, and found the man late to complete the first down was a legitimate great play by him, that was point one I made. The deep ball to the outside to Sanders which Bolles ruined, that highlighted the arm strength he has and how he can hit all areas of the defense, that was point number two. And then the anticipation throw down the middle to Sutton was a thing of beauty. The trust you have to have in yourself to make that play, the trust you have to have in your arm, and the trust you have to have in your wideout on that play, all needs to be high, and Joe brings that confidence to the offense. I think Joe is going to have a really solid year.

  2. #1592
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capt. Jack View Post
    That's GREAT!!!
    Can you pull up the last time a Bronco QB did that?
    I'm not that old. Lol!

  3. #1593
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capt. Jack View Post
    Flacco had 376 yards, a couple weeks before the Steelers game also!
    To me the issue with Flacco is fitness. If he can stay healthy and if he has some time to throw the ball, I think he can still get it done.

  4. #1594
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMTD View Post
    I'm not that old. Lol!
    Great post!
    Cp for you!!!!

  5. #1595
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capt. Jack View Post
    That's GREAT!!!
    Can you pull up the last time a Bronco QB did that?
    Keemun, he threw for 322 yards week 6 last year against the Rams. He threw for over 300 yards 3 times last year

  6. #1596
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capt. Jack View Post
    That's GREAT!!!
    Can you pull up the last time a Bronco QB did that?
    Case Keenum threw for 300+ Yards last season weeks 1, 5, & 6.

  7. #1597
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    Quote Originally Posted by 58Miller View Post
    Case Keenum threw for 300+ Yards last season weeks 1, 5, & 6.
    The question was when did a Bronco QB Pass for 363 yards?
    Flacco is a much more accomplished NFL QB than "Kasey Keesum" most of Kaseys yards were at garbage time.
    Last edited by Capt. Jack; 08-23-2019 at 05:37 PM.

  8. #1598
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capt. Jack View Post
    most of Kaseys yards were at garbage time.
    Is that supposed to be dissimilar from Flacco?

  9. #1599
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    Quote Originally Posted by Papa-pwn View Post
    Is that supposed to be dissimilar from Flacco?
    Comparing These two QB's is like comparing Apples and Oranges. Flacco has actually won a few big games while Kasey Keesum choked away the NFC Championship a few years ago.

    Last edited by Capt. Jack; 08-23-2019 at 06:06 PM.

  10. #1600
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    Quote Originally Posted by Papa-pwn View Post
    Is that supposed to be dissimilar from Flacco?
    johnlimburg is waiting on you......

  11. #1601
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnlimburg View Post
    Papa, what games of Flacco did you actually watch and break down ? I have asked you before only to be ignored, and then watched you post statistic after statistic to push your point across. Did you watch Joe play last season or not ? If so, what games ? I watched every snap he played, and although I wont sit here and say he is a franchise quarterback who will take us to the Superbowl, he is a lot better than Keenum. If you did watch the games last season that Flacco played in, you would of at least seen that he does 3 things as a quarterback that have been 3 of our biggest problem areas for a few years now.

    1: Joe is at least willing to stand in the pocket, to climb the pocket, all while keeping his eyes down field when bodies are falling around him. Obviously Joe isn't a running threat, but Keenum and Siemian were far too quick to loop out the back of the pocket at the first sight of pressure and kill any chance of the play developing, Joe will stand in there.

    2: Joe has the arm strength to hit those outside areas of the defense. Keenum a year ago, and Siemian a few years earlier, they just didn't have the arm to threaten all areas of the defense, and that allowed teams to play us very aggressive and take away the short throws, they didn't fear either of them. Joe can get the balls to places our quarterbacks recently haven't been able to.

    3: Joe trusts what he sees and is at least willing to pull the trigger. I hated watching Keenum and Siemian hold the ball, loop out the back of the pocket and leave plays on the field because of their refusal to throw it. Joe can't run, he knows to move the ball he has to throw it, so he won't hesitate to give his guys chances through the air, and I am sure we will benefit from that.

    Anyway, you are so far one sided on this you just look incredibly biased. When Drew Lock missed passes, you said "he was close, imagine the stat line if he hit them". But, when Flacco does the same, it's, "look he is inaccurate and always has been". I don't care if ones a rookie or not, that right there exposes the subjectivity in your very clearly lopsided love/hate for certain guys you are discussing. To be fair, you wanted Lock in the top 5, so you obviously fell in love with some of those highlight videos which showed about 10% of the full story with him, it's understandable.
    Quote Originally Posted by johnlimburg View Post
    I didn't get a response from Papa on this, but I think these 3 points I mentioned were all highlighted in the short amount of playing time that Joe had against Seattle. The play where Joe hung in the pocket for ages, stood tall, shuffled up, and found the man late to complete the first down was a legitimate great play by him, that was point one I made. The deep ball to the outside to Sanders which Bolles ruined, that highlighted the arm strength he has and how he can hit all areas of the defense, that was point number two. And then the anticipation throw down the middle to Sutton was a thing of beauty. The trust you have to have in yourself to make that play, the trust you have to have in your arm, and the trust you have to have in your wideout on that play, all needs to be high, and Joe brings that confidence to the offense. I think Joe is going to have a really solid year.
    Interesting you mentioned the willingness to stand in the pocket and comment about the Seattle game. Flacco wasnít willing to stand tall in the red zone and throw Sutton a decent 50/50 ball. He needed to set his back foot and deliver a better ball. When youíre going to showcase a play for standing tall, donít leave out the play he failed to do so. As you criticize Papa for being biased on one side, youíve essentially done the same thing by pulling the plays that support your narrative.

    Siemian had the arm strength to threaten defenses on all areas of the field. In the Broncos vs Bengals in 2016, when Siemian was given decent protection he stepped up and delivered a deep strike to Sanders for a TD. In the same game he delivered a strike to Sanders on an out route on the goal line. That was a pass that some QBs would have seen go the other way for six. In the same game Siemian made a pass to Heuerman that demonstrated the strength you described with Flacco. He followed that with another deep strike to DT for a TD. The same type of pass that requires the arm strength you mentioned with Flacco.

    We know, or at least most of us know the issues with the offensive line, lack of TE talent and the deterioration of #88 over the past several years. Siemian had some other issues but he could make the throws. To say he couldnít threaten all areas of the field is not based in reality - he proved he could make those throws. The Bengals game was a clear example.

    I find it interesting youíve criticized Papa for being biased while not criticizing anyone on the opposite side. If youíre going to criticize people for bias, include those on the other side. Then you can claim the high ground. Iíve seen quite a few people completely biased on the other side without you calling them out.
    Last edited by Fantaztic7; 08-23-2019 at 08:30 PM.

  12. #1602
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMTD View Post
    I'm not that old. Lol!
    Oh my I laughed at Capt. Jack's post but your response I nearly shot the coffee out of my mouth lol ! Nice one .Both of you.

  13. #1603
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
    Interesting you mentioned the willingness to stand in the pocket and comment about the Seattle game. Flacco wasn’t willing to stand tall in the red zone and throw Sutton a decent 50/50 ball. He needed to set his back foot and deliver a better ball. When you’re going to showcase a play for standing tall, don’t leave out the play he failed to do so. As you criticize Papa for being biased on one side, you’ve essentially done the same thing by pulling the plays that support your narrative.

    Siemian had the arm strength to threaten defenses on all areas of the field. In the Broncos vs Bengals in 2016, when Siemian was given decent protection he stepped up and delivered a deep strike to Sanders for a TD. In the same game he delivered a strike to Sanders on an out route on the goal line. That was a pass that some QBs would have seen go the other way for six. In the same game Siemian made a pass to Heuerman that demonstrated the strength you described with Flacco. He followed that with another deep strike to DT for a TD. The same type of pass that requires the arm strength you mentioned with Flacco.

    We know, or at least most of us know the issues with the offensive line, lack of TE talent and the deterioration of #88 over the past several years. Siemian had some other issues but he could make the throws. To say he couldn’t threaten all areas of the field is not based in reality - he proved he could make those throws. The Bengals game was a clear example.

    I find it interesting you’ve criticized Papa for being biased while not criticizing anyone on the opposite side. If you’re going to criticize people for bias, include those on the other side. Then you can claim the high ground. I’ve seen quite a few people completely biased on the other side without you calling them out.
    I was actually referring to the 49ers game, he barely played in that first game, my bad. None the less, the one play you are basing your comment about Joe being unwilling to stand in the pocket under pressure was on that first drive of the pre-season ? Anything from the past contributing to that ? The 2018 tape ? Anything prior to that ? Or just the one pre-season play ? And, that one play you are referring to, my question is, how was Joe Flacco meant to hang in the pocket on that play exactly ? The Seahawks came with a double A gap blitz, the line slide down to pick it up, Lindsey took the free blitzer, and the edge man had a clean line at Joe, and Joe took a hit. Look at this picture, Joe holds that any longer it's a sack, what are you talking about ?



    Yes, when the pocket was clean and Siemian had a nice platform to throw from, I will agree, he could rip it, and could hit all areas of the defense. But the difference with Joe in my opinion is that when he might be off balance, with no where to step up into, he can still hit that 18 yard outside area on the far side of the field on an out, comeback, etc. something Keenum couldn't do, and Siemian struggled to do, I think Flacco is better in those areas. I am not biased against Siemian, I actually liked him, and still think we gave up on him too early, and having him as a backup right now would be much better than what we have.

    I called out Papa as he is clearly one way on this, the most vocal about it, and honestly refused to have the conversation in the past when I have attempted to have it. I also think his opinion is completely unfounded as he hasn't actually watched anything, he is stat analysing and drawing conclusions on areas you can't draw on from the statistics. I also don't see anyone anywhere nearly as bias on the other side for Flacco, who is that ? I am down the middle on Flacco personally, I think he is solid and an improvement for us, and if anyone is saying Flacco is a probowl candidate or an MVP calibar quarterback, obviously I won't agree with that, but I just don't see anyone as emotionally for or against Joe Flacco as Papa. Hence, the questions I asked.

  14. #1604
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    I believe Flacco is the best real NFL QB we have had since #18.

  15. #1605
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnlimburg View Post
    I was actually referring to the 49ers game, he barely played in that first game, my bad. None the less, the one play you are basing your comment about Joe being unwilling to stand in the pocket under pressure was on that first drive of the pre-season ? Anything from the past contributing to that ? The 2018 tape ? Anything prior to that ? Or just the one pre-season play ? And, that one play you are referring to, my question is, how was Joe Flacco meant to hang in the pocket on that play exactly ? The Seahawks came with a double A gap blitz, the line slide down to pick it up, Lindsey took the free blitzer, and the edge man had a clean line at Joe, and Joe took a hit. Look at this picture, Joe holds that any longer it's a sack, what are you talking about ?



    Yes, when the pocket was clean and Siemian had a nice platform to throw from, I will agree, he could rip it, and could hit all areas of the defense. But the difference with Joe in my opinion is that when he might be off balance, with no where to step up into, he can still hit that 18 yard outside area on the far side of the field on an out, comeback, etc. something Keenum couldn't do, and Siemian struggled to do, I think Flacco is better in those areas. I am not biased against Siemian, I actually liked him, and still think we gave up on him too early, and having him as a backup right now would be much better than what we have.

    I called out Papa as he is clearly one way on this, the most vocal about it, and honestly refused to have the conversation in the past when I have attempted to have it. I also think his opinion is completely unfounded as he hasn't actually watched anything, he is stat analysing and drawing conclusions on areas you can't draw on from the statistics. I also don't see anyone anywhere nearly as bias on the other side for Flacco, who is that ? I am down the middle on Flacco personally, I think he is solid and an improvement for us, and if anyone is saying Flacco is a probowl candidate or an MVP calibar quarterback, obviously I won't agree with that, but I just don't see anyone as emotionally for or against Joe Flacco as Papa. Hence, the questions I asked.
    2018 Ravens vs Bengals: Linebacker blitzed the A gap and the running back picked up the blitz. TE released and was wide open in front of Flacco for a 1st down. Instead of standing in the pocket and delivering the ball, he sensed pressure scrambled and took a sack. He had ample time to make the pass and bailed.

    Hereís a quote from Flacco:

    ďI would say there were times where, yes, Iíve been on my back foot where I wish I could stand in there strong and do a better job,Ē

    This isnít someoneís opinion - itís Flacco admitting the issue I described.

    On the play in the red zone vs Seattle you should have circled his back foot. He did exactly what he said he should avoid - he did not set his feet to make the pass. Instead he panicked and threw the ball - a terribly inaccurate throw.

    With respect to bias in favor of Flacco, itís possible youíve dialed into Papaís posts due to the fervent opposition. There are dozens of posts from multiple fans with a pure bias for Joe as a near perfect quarterback. Those posters have not taken a balanced approach whatsoever (not uncommon with fans). If you missed those posts/users, not a big deal - but you own reading the thread.

    I would agree with your summation of Flacco. Hopeful with respect to Munchakís ability to coach up the line. If the line can give him decent protection most of the time, I think he can have a solid season. TE production might be a challenge - if that comes together Joe should be fine.
    Last edited by Fantaztic7; 08-25-2019 at 06:28 PM.

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