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  1. #811
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    Quote Originally Posted by orange crush75 View Post
    So your saying hes due lol
    For our sake letís hope he breaks his career season record.

  2. #812
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
    The comment was that Keenum cannot toss a perfect 50/50 ball right where the WR needed it to make the play. That’s simply not true. He certainly missed on a fair number of throws however, it’s false to say that he cannot make those throws. He has in fact made those type of throws for completions. It’s fair to say he needed to make more of those plays.
    I mean, sure if you want to be pedantic and take it to mean that I'm saying he cannot ever.... He cannot consistently make those throws with accurate placement, is that better wording? Regardless, my point still stands. Keenum's ball placement leaves a lot to be desired, Flacco's less so.


  3. #813
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    I wasnt a fan of the Keenum pick up last year . During camp, practices and interviews I started to like the guy. I thought we would have won 11 games . Then the season started and it wasnt long to see my original take of Keenum was spot on because he was constantly under or overthrowing passes. I'm gonna root for whoever our Qb is . I truly feel like we pick Lock @10 and we see him before the end of next season.

  4. #814
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    Quote Originally Posted by orange crush75 View Post
    I wasnt a fan of the Keenum pick up last year . During camp, practices and interviews I started to like the guy. I thought we would have won 11 games . Then the season started and it wasnt long to see my original take of Keenum was spot on because he was constantly under or overthrowing passes. I'm gonna root for whoever our Qb is . I truly feel like we pick Lock @10 and we see him before the end of next season.
    Those underthrown passes were just the bane of my existence last season. I was basically the same last year. Just flat out hated the Keenum deal last year, thought it was a terrible signing. Talked myself into it and realized later I was right to begin with.

    This time around, my first reaction is it's a step up and while there's no chance it'll work for more than a year or two, it buys us some time to put together a strong plan of action to locate our next QB. As long as the running game and defense do their part, he'll be serviceable and we'll likely make the playoffs.

    Once we do, historically Flacco turns into a different QB in the playoffs.


  5. #815
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freyaka View Post
    I mean, sure if you want to be pedantic and take it to mean that I'm saying he cannot ever.... He cannot consistently make those throws with accurate placement, is that better wording? Regardless, my point still stands. Keenum's ball placement leaves a lot to be desired, Flacco's less so.
    I feel like Flacco has the potential to be a lot better than Keenum. But that we arenít very likely to see it actually come to fruition.

    I obviously have to hope it does. But as i said last week until the new coaching staff proves it on the field we have a lot to be desired on the offensive side of the ball. I feel like if we take our orange colored glasses off we would probably see an offense devoid of enough talent to help Flacco be anymore successful in Denver than he was in Baltimore.

    Sure some of it could be scheme and we all know Vj had horrid schemes. So maybe we can now setup Flacco with more chances to succeed. But Iím still worried that oline wonít keep him up for long despite bringing Munchak in.

    Iím trying to be as optimistic as I can since we now have no choice. But I feel like we are just setting ourselves up for Keenum 2.0 disappointment. Even if a lot of the issues stem elsewhere.

    I just donít feel Flacco elevates the team the way Peyton did. No one expects him to. But I feel like we sort of need that QB capable of doing that until the rest of the offensive roster can be improved.

    I really hope Iím wrong but I just really donít see Flacco being the piece to push a 6-10 team to 10-6 or 11-5.

    But as I stated earlier perhaps we are all unaware of the potential impact the coaching staff can have. Perhaps we will see just how truly awful VJ was.

  6. #816
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    I thought last year with a better Qb it gives us 3 more wins . A better coaching staff 2 to 3 more wins . So conservatively does that mean we get 11 wins this year lol.

  7. #817
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freyaka View Post
    I mean, sure if you want to be pedantic and take it to mean that I'm saying he cannot ever.... He cannot consistently make those throws with accurate placement, is that better wording? Regardless, my point still stands. Keenum's ball placement leaves a lot to be desired, Flacco's less so.
    It was your comment that Keenum cannot do that....Period. I agree he didnít make those consistently. Flacco averaged 16 INTs over his last four full seasons so his ball placement leaves a lot to be desired.

  8. #818
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    Quote Originally Posted by DenverBlood View Post
    I feel like Flacco has the potential to be a lot better than Keenum. But that we aren’t very likely to see it actually come to fruition.

    I obviously have to hope it does. But as i said last week until the new coaching staff proves it on the field we have a lot to be desired on the offensive side of the ball. I feel like if we take our orange colored glasses off we would probably see an offense devoid of enough talent to help Flacco be anymore successful in Denver than he was in Baltimore.

    Sure some of it could be scheme and we all know Vj had horrid schemes. So maybe we can now setup Flacco with more chances to succeed. But I’m still worried that oline won’t keep him up for long despite bringing Munchak in.

    I’m trying to be as optimistic as I can since we now have no choice. But I feel like we are just setting ourselves up for Keenum 2.0 disappointment. Even if a lot of the issues stem elsewhere.

    I just don’t feel Flacco elevates the team the way Peyton did. No one expects him to. But I feel like we sort of need that QB capable of doing that until the rest of the offensive roster can be improved.

    I really hope I’m wrong but I just really don’t see Flacco being the piece to push a 6-10 team to 10-6 or 11-5.

    But as I stated earlier perhaps we are all unaware of the potential impact the coaching staff can have. Perhaps we will see just how truly awful VJ was.
    I believe that comes from fans who initially believed Osweiler, a high round Draft pick, would come in after sitting behind, and learning from Peyton Manning, and be our Franchise QB. When that didn't happen, many felt like the pickup of Sanchez would help the team. Siemian beat out Sanchez, so everyone's hope transferred to Siemian. When he didn't pan out, the hope was that our 1st Round Draft Pick QB, Paxton Lynch, would be the guy. He didn't pan out, so then the hope was that Keenum would be the guy after a great season at Minnesota. Keenum proved that he couldn't be a "difference-maker", and now it's Flacco's turn.

    It's understandable that some fans will be skeptical. However, I have the hope that Flacco will prove to be better than Keenum, better than Lynch, better than Siemian, better than Sanchez, and better than Osweiler. We are talking about a career starting NFL QB who lead his team to the Superbowl, won the Superbowl, and was named MVP in the Superbowl. And I believe trading for Flacco for a 4th Round Draft choice is less of a "toss of the dice" than trolling the Draft for another "Franchise QB" when the Broncos History shows that it's a "sucker bet".

    Flacco IS the Broncos QB. And all the Posts wishing he wasn't aren't going to change that simple fact. I think everyone has taken a side, and the only thing going on now is an exercise in rhetoric to see who can win an argument that no longer exists. Elway has made the Final Decision. End of story.

  9. #819
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
    It was your comment that Keenum cannot do that....Period. I agree he didn’t make those consistently. Flacco averaged 16 INTs over his last four full seasons so his ball placement leaves a lot to be desired.
    I mean look, even Tebow could occasionally place a ball in the right spot. Taking it as an "no, you're wrong, he did it once on this date for this many yards" is just being silly. Yes, on occasion he can, but it's more luck than skill. Arguing my phrasing doesn't change the fact that his ball placement is notoriously bad.

    https://www.milehighreport.com/2018/...atchable-balls

    Here's a good write-up from last year.

    This is what you get for ball placement with Keenum.





    Someone on the Vikings reddit made a video with a bunch of his underthrows and missed chances in 2017. Even when he was supposedly great, he wasn't. 99% of what Keenum was that year wasn't Keenum at all, it was his receivers reaching over the heads of defenders and grabbing miracle balls because Keenum threw it 5 yards too short and the receiver had to slow way the heck down to grab it.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/minnesotavi...l_underthrows/

    Case has flat out awful ball placement skills and it's because he's got the noodliest of noodle arms. He literally throws his entire body into deep passes just to get enough velocity and even then it's 4-5 yards too short.
    Last edited by Freyaka; 02-18-2019 at 01:34 PM.


  10. #820
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freyaka View Post
    Is it likely he plays that well? No, but it is possible. I'm playing the wait and see game. His best season was in Kubiak's system, we're going to be in a very similar scheme this year (though it'll more closely resemble Shanny Jr/McVay). The impression I get of Scags is he's a smart X's and O's kinda guy and a dedicated student of the game. I feel like it's a good chance he picked up a lot from Shanny Jr in his time with him.

    Flacco in 2014 had Steve Smith, Torrey Smith and Owen Daniels. Kubiak also had Justin Forsett really tearing it up. That was really, the last year he had anything consistent weapon wise, because the next year Steve Smith declined pretty bad and Torrey Smith left for San Fran, plus that was the last year he was in a scheme he was comfortable with. (He's been vocally against Mornhinweg's scheme because he doesn't take nearly the number of shots down field in Mornhinweg's scheme.
    We could make a similar argument for Keenum. DT declined pretty bad. Jake Butt played three games and Jeff Heuerman missed the last five games. Sanders missed the last four games. Hamilton and Sutton were rookies. The offensive line shuffled several times due to injuries. Flacco gets a pass based on the supporting cast while Keenum doesnít. No question there were areas Keenum could have played better. Flaccoís play wasnít that good over the past several seasons. Will he play better in Denver? Maybe, maybe not. I think heíll give the Broncos a better chance to win but thereís nothing in his recent history that says he will.

  11. #821
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    Quote Originally Posted by gtown53 View Post
    I believe that comes from fans who initially believed Osweiler, a high round Draft pick, would come in after sitting behind, and learning from Peyton Manning, and be our Franchise QB. When that didn't happen, many felt like the pickup of Sanchez would help the team. Siemian beat out Sanchez, so everyone's hope transferred to Siemian. When he didn't pan out, the hope was that our 1st Round Draft Pick QB, Paxton Lynch, would be the guy. He didn't pan out, so then the hope was that Keenum would be the guy after a great season at Minnesota. Keenum proved that he couldn't be a "difference-maker", and now it's Flacco's turn.

    It's understandable that some fans will be skeptical. However, I have the hope that Flacco will prove to be better than Keenum, better than Lynch, better than Siemian, better than Sanchez, and better than Osweiler. We are talking about a career starting NFL QB who lead his team to the Superbowl, won the Superbowl, and was named MVP in the Superbowl. And I believe trading for Flacco for a 4th Round Draft choice is less of a "toss of the dice" than trolling the Draft for another "Franchise QB" when the Broncos History shows that it's a "sucker bet".

    Flacco IS the Broncos QB. And all the Posts wishing he wasn't aren't going to change that simple fact. I think everyone has taken a side, and the only thing going on now is an exercise in rhetoric to see who can win an argument that no longer exists. Elway has made the Final Decision. End of story.
    I guess Iím at the point where thereís not much doubt in my mind that Flacco is an upgrade over Keenum. At least assuming he can actually stay healthy.

    I think more of my doubt stems from is it enough to matter taking into account what we will put around him. And are we putting too much stock into what Flacco used to be versus what he is now.

  12. #822
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    I support the Denver Broncos and I support our new Starting QB Joe Flacco. Go Denver Broncos....

  13. #823
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    Quote Originally Posted by DenverBlood View Post
    I guess I’m at the point where there’s not much doubt in my mind that Flacco is an upgrade over Keenum. At least assuming he can actually stay healthy.

    I think more of my doubt stems from is it enough to matter taking into account what we will put around him. And are we putting too much stock into what Flacco used to be versus what he is now.
    Watch the Baltimore-New Orleans game, and the Baltimore-Denver game, both from last season I think you will see a Flacco who hasn't lost any of his skills. Is it possible that he falls on his face? Is it possible that Flacco will be injured? Sure. Anything is possible. You can name every QB in the NFL, and it's possible that they will be injured, or have a bad season Hell, it's possible that we will each be struck in the head by a meteorite. But, from what I saw in those games, I'm not going to sweat it. And it wouldn't make any difference to the path of this Franchise if I did "sweat it". It will be a done deal in a month.

  14. #824
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
    We could make a similar argument for Keenum. DT declined pretty bad. Jake Butt played three games and Jeff Heuerman missed the last five games. Sanders missed the last four games. Hamilton and Sutton were rookies. The offensive line shuffled several times due to injuries. Flacco gets a pass based on the supporting cast while Keenum doesn’t. No question there were areas Keenum could have played better. Flacco’s play wasn’t that good over the past several seasons. Will he play better in Denver? Maybe, maybe not. I think he’ll give the Broncos a better chance to win but there’s nothing in his recent history that says he will.
    No I don't really think that's a fair argument honestly. Steve Smith was basically all he had once Torrey Smith left. With DT declining, we still had Sutton and Sanders performing at high levels as well as Tim Patrick. All of Keenum's top receivers were averaging between 12 and 17 yards per reception. Those are respectable numbers. It's hard for receivers to catch balls that are either sailing over their heads (on the short routes) or at their feet.

    I will grant you that we badly need a reliable tight end option that manages to stay healthy all year. I actually like both LaCossse and Heuerman, but they gotta stay healthy and right now that's not happening. Heuerman started 10 games, Lacosse 5, we need more from that position.

    That said, Flacco had Crockett Gillmore, Dennis Pita, a 37 year old ben watson, and Max Williams.

    The Mark Andrews kid that Baltimore had last year looks promising, but bottom line, none of their TE's are dangerous receiving threats. Pitta had a few decent years in there, but most of it was earlier in his career.


  15. #825
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freyaka View Post
    I mean look, even Tebow could occasionally place a ball in the right spot. Taking it as an "no, you're wrong, he did it once on this date for this many yards" is just being silly. Yes, on occasion he can, but it's more luck than skill. Arguing my phrasing doesn't change the fact that his ball placement is notoriously bad.

    https://www.milehighreport.com/2018/...atchable-balls

    Here's a good write-up from last year.

    This is what you get for ball placement with Keenum.





    Someone on the Vikings reddit made a video with a bunch of his underthrows and missed chances in 2017. Even when he was supposedly great, he wasn't. 99% of what Keenum was that year wasn't Keenum at all, it was his receivers reaching over the heads of defenders and grabbing miracle balls because Keenum threw it 5 yards too short and the receiver had to slow way the heck down to grab it.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/minnesotavi...l_underthrows/

    Case has flat out awful ball placement skills and it's because he's got the noodliest of noodle arms. He literally throws his entire body into deep passes just to get enough velocity and even then it's 4-5 yards too short.
    Your statement was an absolute and one that was simply untrue. No argument about Keenum not being good enough to consistently make the required throws. Elway traded for a veteran with an injury history and limited production. Itís a good move if Flacco returns to playing like he did in 2014.

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