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Thread: Flacco

  1. #1606
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
    2018 Ravens vs Bengals: Linebacker blitzed the A gap and the running back picked up the blitz. TE released and was wide open in front of Flacco for a 1st down. Instead of standing in the pocket and delivering the ball, he sensed pressure scrambled and took a sack. He had ample time to make the pass and bailed.

    Here’s a quote from Flacco:

    “I would say there were times where, yes, I’ve been on my back foot where I wish I could stand in there strong and do a better job,”

    This isn’t someone’s opinion - it’s Flacco admitting the issue I described.

    On the play in the red zone vs Seattle you should have circled his back foot. He did exactly what he said he should avoid - he did not set his feet to make the pass. Instead he panicked and threw the ball - a terribly inaccurate throw.

    With respect to bias in favor of Flacco, it’s possible you’ve dialed into Papa’s posts due to the fervent opposition. There are dozens of posts from multiple fans with a pure bias for Joe as a near perfect quarterback. Those posters have not taken a balanced approach whatsoever (not uncommon with fans). If you missed those posts/users, not a big deal - but you own reading the thread.

    I would agree with your summation of Flacco. Hopeful with respect to Munchak’s ability to coach up the line. If the line can give him decent protection most of the time, I think he can have a solid season. TE production might be a challenge - if that comes together Joe should be fine.
    No one has said Flacco is perfect that I’ve seen.
    He lead the Ravens to an average 23.6 pts a game in his 9 starts. He has more talent on the offensive side of the ball in Denver. And he has always been a big time postseason qb.
    His last trip to the postseason after beating Pittsburgh on the road he went into New England threw 4
    Tds and lost 35-31.

  2. #1607
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
    Interesting you mentioned the willingness to stand in the pocket and comment about the Seattle game. Flacco wasn’t willing to stand tall in the red zone and throw Sutton a decent 50/50 ball. He needed to set his back foot and deliver a better ball. When you’re going to showcase a play for standing tall, don’t leave out the play he failed to do so. As you criticize Papa for being biased on one side, you’ve essentially done the same thing by pulling the plays that support your narrative........
    You are a few here that obviously have a motive in smearing Joe Flacco, but also do not seem to understand the basis of winning football games, and what the job of the QB actually is.

    You smear Flacco because he does not risk injury to score in a meaningless preseason game, and inn later posts don't really seem to understand that the regular season is about making the playoffs, and staying healthy. Our 2014 season pretty much fell apart at the end because Peyton got injured, and wanting Flacco to take brutal hits in preseason is just bizarre.

    While I think we all agree that Flacco has to produce some monster seasons to become HOF worthy, his history and current level of play is way better that Craig Morton was when he joined Broncos. Morton only had two seasons with more than 8 wins and the last one was 5 years removed, yet he was a transformative QB for the Broncos, and Flacco has every possibility of becoming that from the sad state that the Vance Joseph years have left us in.

    Would Keenum, Siemian, Lynch, Kelly.... been good without Vance Joseph - maybe, but Flacco has superior skill and pedigree to all of them, and I worry a lot more about the fact that Broncos sent Kubiak packing than I do about Flacco's skills. I do understand why a first time head coach would not want our SB winning head coach hanging around, but it does not strengthen the team.

  3. #1608
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    I wasnt big on the Flacco trade . I wasnt big on the Keenum trade at first either. Then came camp and I liked what I saw in Keenum. Then I watched games and didnt like it at all. He was the same Keenum hes been minus the 1 year hit wonder. I think Flacco is better then keenum . However every thing you read says they aren't that different when it comes to performance. Accepting the worst but hoping for the best . Check out #7 on this list.
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl...Bnb7Kz#image=7

  4. #1609
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    Quote Originally Posted by BroncoFanDK View Post
    You are a few here that obviously have a motive in smearing Joe Flacco, but also do not seem to understand the basis of winning football games, and what the job of the QB actually is.

    You smear Flacco because he does not risk injury to score in a meaningless preseason game, and inn later posts don't really seem to understand that the regular season is about making the playoffs, and staying healthy. Our 2014 season pretty much fell apart at the end because Peyton got injured, and wanting Flacco to take brutal hits in preseason is just bizarre.

    While I think we all agree that Flacco has to produce some monster seasons to become HOF worthy, his history and current level of play is way better that Craig Morton was when he joined Broncos. Morton only had two seasons with more than 8 wins and the last one was 5 years removed, yet he was a transformative QB for the Broncos, and Flacco has every possibility of becoming that from the sad state that the Vance Joseph years have left us in.

    Would Keenum, Siemian, Lynch, Kelly.... been good without Vance Joseph - maybe, but Flacco has superior skill and pedigree to all of them, and I worry a lot more about the fact that Broncos sent Kubiak packing than I do about Flacco's skills. I do understand why a first time head coach would not want our SB winning head coach hanging around, but it does not strengthen the team.
    Flacco was going to take a hit regardless on the play. Remove preseason and consider Flacco’s self-assessment quoted above. Look at the play I referenced from 2018 regular season. Those are the type of plays when Joe fails to stand in the pocket or step up to make the throw. Are you disputing Joe’s own self-assessment posted above? Here it is again in case you missed it:

    “I would say there were times where, yes, I’ve been on my back foot where I wish I could stand in there strong and do a better job.”

    That’s from the regular season, which completely dismantles your argument about preseason.

    On balance, Joe is an average to slightly above average quarterback. He’s had playoff success and stepped up in some big games. Hopefully we can get his best play in 2019. If Munchak brings the line around sooner rather than later, Joe should be fine.

  5. #1610
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
    Flacco was going to take a hit regardless on the play. Remove preseason and consider Flacco’s self-assessment quoted above. Look at the play I referenced from 2018 regular season. Those are the type of plays when Joe fails to stand in the pocket or step up to make the throw. Are you disputing Joe’s own self-assessment posted above? Here it is again in case you missed it:

    “I would say there were times where, yes, I’ve been on my back foot where I wish I could stand in there strong and do a better job.”

    That’s from the regular season, which completely dismantles your argument about preseason.

    On balance, Joe is an average to slightly above average quarterback. He’s had playoff success and stepped up in some big games. Hopefully we can get his best play in 2019. If Munchak brings the line around sooner rather than later, Joe should be fine.
    While the likes of Jay Cutler, Jeff George and Ryan Leaf were not that self reflective. Do you really think that any QB worth anything is not critical of his own efforts?
    Preseason or regular season - you still need your QB to protect himself, a point you obviously missed the in the previous post.
    If you would like to go back and look at press conferences of Peyton Manning and John Elway, you would also find plenty of times where they had bad games that they themselves wanted to clean up.

  6. #1611
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    Quote Originally Posted by BroncoFanDK View Post
    While the likes of Jay Cutler, Jeff George and Ryan Leaf were not that self reflective. Do you really think that any QB worth anything is not critical of his own efforts?
    Preseason or regular season - you still need your QB to protect himself, a point you obviously missed the in the previous post.
    If you would like to go back and look at press conferences of Peyton Manning and John Elway, you would also find plenty of times where they had bad games that they themselves wanted to clean up.
    We’re talking about Flacco not other quarterbacks. Have you followed Flacco’s career or watched much of his tape? His comments originated from the fact that in one season in multiple games he struggled to stay in the pocket long enough to make accurate throws. Protecting yourself is important, but it’s also important to trust the protection. In the 2018 example I provided he simply missed the opportunity to hit a wide open TE before there was pressure.
    Last edited by Fantaztic7; 08-26-2019 at 11:52 AM.

  7. #1612
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    Raven fan here, one thing you are way off on is Joes readiness to deliver the ball when knowing hes about to be leveled. I don't know what QB you are talking about bailing out of the pocket but you have the wrong one.
    I have seen a lot of brutal hits and was amazed when he got up from them. Flacco is tough. He is the anti Brady, who cries for the flag when a linebacker air whiffs his knees.
    And he was the first QB to side with defensive players who are fined for their hits on Qbs. He is a baller. Proud graduate of Ball so Hard University.
    Personally, I would rather my quarterback crumble into a little ball like Peyton used to do. He even taught his wide receivers to duck out of bounds to avoid a hit, rather than get a few extra yards.
    I always thought Peyton was smart doing that, but his Indianappolis receivers were just wusses.
    I guess you lead by example.
    Said enough.
    Last edited by crabcruncher; 08-26-2019 at 07:49 PM.

  8. #1613
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    Quote Originally Posted by crabcruncher View Post
    Raven fan here, one thing you are way off on is Joes readiness to deliver the ball when knowing hes about to be leveled. I don't know what QB you are talking about bailing out of the pocket but you have the wrong one.
    I have seen a lot of brutal hits and was amazed when he got up from them. Flacco is tough. He is the anti Brady, who cries for the flag when a linebacker air whiffs his knees.
    And he was the first QB to side with defensive players who are fined for their hits on Qbs. He is a baller. Proud graduate of Ball so Hard University.
    Personally, I would rather my quarterback crumble into a little ball like Peyton used to do. He even taught his wide receivers to duck out of bounds to avoid a hit, rather than get a few extra yards.
    I always thought Peyton was smart doing that, but his Indianappolis receivers were just wusses.
    I guess you lead by example.
    Said enough.
    I’ve noticed Flacco fans won’t address specific plays such as the one posted from the Bengals game last season. All he needed to do was hit the open TE coming over the middle. The slightest pressure from the left side moved him out of the pocket. An easy first down turned into a sack.

    The Vikings game in 2017 had several plays where he relied on check downs that cost the Ravens first downs. On one play he had enough time to see Breshad Perriman wide open over the middle. Instead, Flacco took his first read on a quick out to Buck Allen, who was tackled for a loss.

    Some fans criticize stats however, we can see how Flacco’s plays such as the one described vs Vikings translate to poor production. In 2017 his average pass was 6.8 yards past the line of scrimmage, two yards in front of the first down marker. He ranked last among starters in both of those statistics. It was plays like the one where he checked down to Allen (for a loss) that drove those stats.

    Before defending him again with comments about not having talent, those are plays when he had open receivers - forget about who they were. They were open and he had time to deliver. In both plays he would not have taken a hard hit.
    Last edited by Fantaztic7; 08-26-2019 at 08:31 PM.

  9. #1614
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    Quote Originally Posted by 58Miller View Post
    No one has said Flacco is perfect that I’ve seen.
    He lead the Ravens to an average 23.6 pts a game in his 9 starts. He has more talent on the offensive side of the ball in Denver. And he has always been a big time postseason qb.
    His last trip to the postseason after beating Pittsburgh on the road he went into New England threw 4
    Tds and lost 35-31.
    I’m not sure he has more talent in Denver.

  10. #1615
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
    I’ve noticed Flacco fans won’t address specific plays such as the one posted from the Bengals game last season. All he needed to do was hit the open TE coming over the middle. The slightest pressure from the left side moved him out of the pocket. An easy first down turned into a sack.......
    The reason for not entering a turd picking contest is that it is utter irrelevant.

    If you watch the AFCC game later known as the Drive, do you focus on how utterly inefficient, inaccurate, how many missed opportunities Elway had in that game, or do you focus on one of the most historic endings in NFL history?



    If you see a game like the 2011 wild card game against the Steelers do you think it is most relevant to focus on NFL all time playoff records in 30+ yard completions, 50+ yard completions, yards per attempt, yards per completion, being the first to produce a 100 yard receiver against Steelers that year and did that in one quarter with two passes, only passer with over 300 yards against the Steelers that year, he joined Joe Montana and Aaron Rodgers as the only NFL QBs to ever run for a TD, throw for 300 yards, and not throw any interceptions in a playoff game....or is that what you focus on to turd pick the completion percentage?

    The job is to win the game in the end irrespective of whether it is 7-6 or 27-26. What makes a player like Brady so incredibly impressive is not fantastic error free football throughout! It is that you are almost certain that if they are down by 6 and has the ball with 90 seconds to go, you expect him to win.

    In 2010 Kyle Orton was #4 in the NFL in yards per game beating Tom Brady by almost 40 yards/game, but is that REALLY relevant? Is our 2010 story that Kyle Orton played almost as well as Peyton Manning and was just shy on TDs and wins. Did we see the statistically very good QB or did we see the guy that was in position to win the game and dropped the ball...

    When we watched Elway, did we see him as the mistake prone, inefficient QB that did not seem to think his brain needed used for the first 10 years, or did we see the instinctive marvel of a QB that carried the team when he needed to and could make up for his mistakes. Elway's swings in performance were much more similar to those of Tebow, than to the constant and utter perfection of Manning.

    We can turd pick every QB, but what defines Flacco's success or failure is his balance of strengths and weaknesses, and how we can play to those. Take the first KC game last year where Keenum has a lot of good stuff, but so many drives die because of poor use of the pocket, not getting the ball out on time, not making adjustments... All these are areas where Flacco is much better, and in games against Rivers and Mahomes, we need to be able to get 7 instead of 3.

    Last year we had we had five games where we lost lost by one score, and success or failure is very much tied up in whether you win those or not, and often the difference between the Kyle Orton's and the Peyton Manning's of this world comes down to very few drives per game. Flacco can play with the big boys!
    Last edited by BroncoFanDK; 08-27-2019 at 01:19 AM.

  11. #1616
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    How great would it be if Flacco has a great game, and we pummel the Raiders?

  12. #1617
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    Quote Originally Posted by BroncoFanDK View Post
    The reason for not entering a turd picking contest is that it is utter irrelevant.

    If you watch the AFCC game later known as the Drive, do you focus on how utterly inefficient, inaccurate, how many missed opportunities Elway had in that game, or do you focus on one of the most historic endings in NFL history?



    If you see a game like the 2011 wild card game against the Steelers do you think it is most relevant to focus on NFL all time playoff records in 30+ yard completions, 50+ yard completions, yards per attempt, yards per completion, being the first to produce a 100 yard receiver against Steelers that year and did that in one quarter with two passes, only passer with over 300 yards against the Steelers that year, he joined Joe Montana and Aaron Rodgers as the only NFL QBs to ever run for a TD, throw for 300 yards, and not throw any interceptions in a playoff game....or is that what you focus on to turd pick the completion percentage?

    The job is to win the game in the end irrespective of whether it is 7-6 or 27-26. What makes a player like Brady so incredibly impressive is not fantastic error free football throughout! It is that you are almost certain that if they are down by 6 and has the ball with 90 seconds to go, you expect him to win.

    In 2010 Kyle Orton was #4 in the NFL in yards per game beating Tom Brady by almost 40 yards/game, but is that REALLY relevant? Is our 2010 story that Kyle Orton played almost as well as Peyton Manning and was just shy on TDs and wins. Did we see the statistically very good QB or did we see the guy that was in position to win the game and dropped the ball...

    When we watched Elway, did we see him as the mistake prone, inefficient QB that did not seem to think his brain needed used for the first 10 years, or did we see the instinctive marvel of a QB that carried the team when he needed to and could make up for his mistakes. Elway's swings in performance were much more similar to those of Tebow, than to the constant and utter perfection of Manning.

    We can turd pick every QB, but what defines Flacco's success or failure is his balance of strengths and weaknesses, and how we can play to those. Take the first KC game last year where Keenum has a lot of good stuff, but so many drives die because of poor use of the pocket, not getting the ball out on time, not making adjustments... All these are areas where Flacco is much better, and in games against Rivers and Mahomes, we need to be able to get 7 instead of 3.

    Last year we had we had five games where we lost lost by one score, and success or failure is very much tied up in whether you win those or not, and often the difference between the Kyle Orton's and the Peyton Manning's of this world comes down to very few drives per game. Flacco can play with the big boys!
    Once again you’ve deflected by going back to 2011, which isn’t relevant to some of Flacco’s tendencies over the last few seasons. The examples were to illustrate a larger issue he’s struggled with in 2015, 2017 and to a lesser degree in 2016. He had some of the issues in 2018 in a shortened season. It’s possible he’ll overcome some of those tendencies. Those tendencies were observed by the media and fans. Hopefully a strong running game and solid protection will help.

  13. #1618
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    I just want opening night to hurry up and get here so we can perhaps put this damn debate to bed already.

    Is Flacco a top 10 quarterback?
    No but he could be a top 15.

    Is Flacco John Elway or Peyton Manning? No and nobody is saying he is. However is he Kyle Orton or case Keenum? No he’s better than that.

    If he can command the offense and get them playing behind him and the offense performs well then we’ll win some games Because we all know that this defense can be really special and can carry this offense when needed.

    No that should be all that matters.

  14. #1619
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
    I’ve noticed Flacco fans won’t address specific plays such as the one posted from the Bengals game last season. All he needed to do was hit the open TE coming over the middle. The slightest pressure from the left side moved him out of the pocket. An easy first down turned into a sack.

    The Vikings game in 2017 had several plays where he relied on check downs that cost the Ravens first downs. On one play he had enough time to see Breshad Perriman wide open over the middle. Instead, Flacco took his first read on a quick out to Buck Allen, who was tackled for a loss.

    Some fans criticize stats however, we can see how Flacco’s plays such as the one described vs Vikings translate to poor production. In 2017 his average pass was 6.8 yards past the line of scrimmage, two yards in front of the first down marker. He ranked last among starters in both of those statistics. It was plays like the one where he checked down to Allen (for a loss) that drove those stats.

    Before defending him again with comments about not having talent, those are plays when he had open receivers - forget about who they were. They were open and he had time to deliver. In both plays he would not have taken a hard hit.
    Just because you're cherry picking and focusing on specific plays doesn't mean that's the player he has been his whole career. Something tells me that you dislike Flacco and sought out plays that prove your narrative.

    I'm sure the Ravens fan can pick out specific plays where he excelled because he also has a bias. I tend to trust his take way more than stats or cherry picking plays as he has probably watched the majority of his games. Clearly he is biased though, as are you.

  15. #1620
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capt. Jack View Post
    How great would it be if Flacco has a great game, and we pummel the Raiders?
    I'd have an ear to ear grin that would be stuck for a week. Especially walking around a ton of Raider fans here in California.

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