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Thread: Flacco

  1. #1501
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    Quote Originally Posted by samparnell View Post
    Trading for Joe Flacco and drafting Drew Lock seems as a good a plan as any to address the QB position. Joe can start while Drew develops. I'm glad a first round pick wasn't used to get Lock. We'll see how the plan works out. About as much has been done as could get done this year to put each in a position to succeed.
    Ah yes, the "Voice of Reason". Which is sorely missing in many Posts on this Thread.

  2. #1502
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    Quote Originally Posted by broncos SB2010 View Post
    I wish we still had Chad Kelly. Everytime he is on the field, he looks like he belongs there. He is competing for QB3 right now for the Colts.
    Yep - pity he chose to eat bath salts (even while under the microscope for "upstairs issues") rather than be a responsible upstanding member of the community. His 'check engine light' was basically flashing bright red...probably for the best that the team didn't put a piece of tape over it.

    In the meantime, we're rolling with Flacco. Not super excited, but optimistic that he'll at least be marginally better than what we've suffered through the past two years. Hoping Drew can learn quickly.

  3. #1503
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    Quote Originally Posted by broncos SB2010 View Post
    I wish we still had Chad Kelly. Everytime he is on the field, he looks like he belongs there. He is competing for QB3 right now for the Colts.
    Maybe one day he'll get it together enough off the field to give someone the chance to trust him on the field?

    You've gotta think this is his last chance, a gift to him from his uncle's long time backup. But it'll be difficult because no one really doubts his abilities on the field, and he can't rehabilitate his reputation on the field either, he needs to show everyone that he can be a guy that can be trusted from 5pm to 8am the next day.

  4. #1504
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butler By'Note View Post
    Maybe one day he'll get it together enough off the field to give someone the chance to trust him on the field?

    You've gotta think this is his last chance, a gift to him from his uncle's long time backup. But it'll be difficult because no one really doubts his abilities on the field, and he can't rehabilitate his reputation on the field either, he needs to show everyone that he can be a guy that can be trusted from 5pm to 8am the next day.
    I will always wonder "what If?"with him last year. If he just coulda kept it together I'm sure he woulda had his chance. It is a shame for both him and us cause it ended up costing both of us. I still wish him well. If he can get it together upstairs, I think he could do well.
    My Boss is a Jewish Carpenter

  5. #1505
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    Quote Originally Posted by BroncoFanDK View Post
    6 months ago you were all in on a Kubiak/Flacco reunion - granted I am not happy let Kubes walk!
    My memory of that Januar 2013 game do not give negative emotions towards Flacco (or Rahim Moore) but I cannot forgive Fox for choosing the knee at the end of regulation.
    I was accepting of it, but I dunno man... I just can't get excited, especially after all I've seen and heard out of camp and preseason.

    He's not a good qb


  6. #1506
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    Quote Originally Posted by samparnell View Post
    Trading for Joe Flacco and drafting Drew Lock seems as a good a plan as any to address the QB position. Joe can start while Drew develops. I'm glad a first round pick wasn't used to get Lock. We'll see how the plan works out. About as much has been done as could get done this year to put each in a position to succeed.
    Great Post Sam...... Gotta spread it.
    My Boss is a Jewish Carpenter

  7. #1507
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    Best case scenario is Flacco matches Keenum's production last year with maybe an extra TD or two. 20 TDs, 14 ints, right around bottom half in passer rating, comp %, YPA, about his career average season actually. For him to match his career average year on a new team with another year of aging would ve nothing short of astounding.

    Worst case, he continues to deteriorate and in an entirely new situation he has his worst year yet. Possibly beginning the Drew Lock era by week 7 after a combination of poor play and injuries from Flacco.

    The truth is likely somewhere in between, but that should excite no one. He will probably give us close to exactly what we got from Keenum last year, I really think he will be worse though. Maybe 10 TDs to 12 INTs before he is pulled some time midseason.

  8. #1508
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    Quote Originally Posted by Papa-pwn View Post
    Best case scenario is Flacco matches Keenum's production last year with maybe an extra TD or two. 20 TDs, 14 ints, right around bottom half in passer rating, comp %, YPA, about his career average season actually. For him to match his career average year on a new team with another year of aging would ve nothing short of astounding.

    Worst case, he continues to deteriorate and in an entirely new situation he has his worst year yet. Possibly beginning the Drew Lock era by week 7 after a combination of poor play and injuries from Flacco.

    The truth is likely somewhere in between, but that should excite no one. He will probably give us close to exactly what we got from Keenum last year, I really think he will be worse though. Maybe 10 TDs to 12 INTs before he is pulled some time midseason.
    The best case scenario in your mind is that he peaks by matching Keenums production?? Your hate for Flacco is beyond unreasonable at this point.

  9. #1509
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    Quote Originally Posted by Papa-pwn View Post
    Best case scenario is Flacco matches Keenum's production last year with maybe an extra TD or two. 20 TDs, 14 ints, right around bottom half in passer rating, comp %, YPA, about his career average season actually. For him to match his career average year on a new team with another year of aging would ve nothing short of astounding.

    Worst case, he continues to deteriorate and in an entirely new situation he has his worst year yet. Possibly beginning the Drew Lock era by week 7 after a combination of poor play and injuries from Flacco.

    The truth is likely somewhere in between, but that should excite no one. He will probably give us close to exactly what we got from Keenum last year, I really think he will be worse though. Maybe 10 TDs to 12 INTs before he is pulled some time midseason.
    No. For you, the worst case scenario is that Joe Flacco has a decent season, and the best case is that he totally bombs out.
    "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

  10. #1510
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    People just don't appreciate how bad Flacco has been. Especially when talking about deep ball, depth of targets, and accuracy.

    According to PFF, over the last 3 years Flacco has had the 10th lowest average depth of target, even when teams are stacking the box. With less defenders deep, Flacco is still amongst ththe most hesitant to throw deep. Probably because he understands he has not been good at it in a long time.

    Lowest average depth of target w/8+ men in the box, outside the red zone (2016-18):

    Blake Bortles 7.9
    Dak Prescott 8.2
    Eli Manning 8.6
    Matthew Stafford 8.6
    Alex Smith 8.8
    Josh McCown 9.1
    Drew Brees 9.3
    Derek Carr 9.3
    Carson Wentz 9.7
    Joe Flacco 9.8
    Kirk Cousins 9.9
    Looking into that more specifically, in 2016 Flacco had the 5th lowest average intended air yards per pass at 7.7 his average completed air distance was 4th worst at 5.2 yards. But wait, there's so much more. In situations he threw in pursuit of a 1st down, he threw the ball 1.3 yards short of the 1st down on average. Only 3 QBs threw shorter of the sticks. Knowing this, it is unsurprising that Flacco also threw the 9th least amount of aggressive throws that year. He truly is captain checkdown.

    *aggressive throws are described as throws into tight coverage, where there is a defender within 1 yard or less of the receiver at the time of completion or incompletion

    That was 2016, let's look into 2017.

    2017
    Average intended air yards- 6.6 - 3rd worst

    Average completed air yards- 4.4 - 2nd worst

    Throws at the sticks- short by 2.2 yards - 4th worst

    Aggressive throws- 13.3% - 4th lowest


    https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...cks-all-wrong/

    QBs with a lower depth of target will have their raw completion percentage skewed up. When adjusting for the more difficult throws that quarterbacks make, it can help to determine their success rate, where raw completion percentage can fall short.
    Now that sounds all well and good, but it's even more bad news for Flacco, who has the 22nd highest completion % in general over the last 3 years. So even with his low depth of target, his accuracy is lacking, complete with being the 29th best in the league for completion % last year.

    For even more context about how truly bad he is at throwing deep, among 49 qualifying QBs with over 300 attempts the last 3 years, he is 44th in yards per passing attempt.

  11. #1511
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    I could be more popular by saying that I loved the offseason QB transactions.....that Flacco has plenty of good gas left in the tank, that he will likely propel us to the playoffs, that drafting Lock was a bit of a project but Joe would be fully capable of leading this team for 2 to 3 years....and that, by then, we would have our next franchise QB waiting in the driver's seat.

    Like some others however, I have mixed views on the tract we took, just as I did when we signed Keenum. For me, both Case and Joe were not the type of QBs we should be targeting, because we had other issues to deal with as well, ie. Oline. In the Case "case", I thought his one good year was not evidence of his trending upward, rather than an anomaly in a career that was defined by "journeyman". In Joe's case, I think he had a good career, and some excellent postseason results, but is showing his age. If pushed, I would predict his career to be near end. Therefore I hope he is a mentor type.

    The question I raise....if Joe is vulnerable, what's plan B, short term? Many of you do not believe Lock will be ready to lead this team this season, or maybe even next. So what do we do if Joe falters, or gets injured? Find another vet? I guess we could. Slim pickins though.

    But is this a plan for the future? I will say that I am more confident in Lock than many others, but I need more evidence. Perhaps he will grow quicker than even I think.

    Bottom line for me.....if Joe falters, and Lock is not ready.....are we receding instead of going forward? There is a load of risk involved with this methodology. Without a quality QB, we will not be contenders. now or in the next few years. And lets be honest, do we know if Joe is a mentor type?

    But because I have some faith in Lock, I am ignoring the Flacco concerns. In fact, I would let Lock on the field by midseason if we have no other choice. Sometimes you take that type of risk, rather than wait and see, and hope.

    Some may ask...then who would you have selected as QBs? No point looking back, but as I mentioned, I did not like the Keenum acquisition....and I certainly did not like the Flacco deal. I want younger, not older...unless older was someone like Brees. This is still a QB driven league, no matter what anyone tries to sell. Sure, we can all give examples of less than stellar QBs on winning teams. I don't like going on "exceptions".

    Like I say, over and over, I hope Flacco succeeds. And I really hope Lock develops as quickly as can be expected. If so, this approach will have worked. We will win. I will be happy.
    Last edited by CanDB; 08-14-2019 at 08:12 AM.

  12. #1512
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    Stats can easily be manipulated to fit your argument. For example, your point of the lowest average depth of target w/8+ men in the box, outside the red zone (2016-18).

    I notice that Flacco is above Brees and Wentz. Does that mean that Flacco is a better QB?? Absolutely not. Stats are nice to look at but they are numbers with little context.

    For Example:

    - What offense is the QB in and what is asked of them
    - Are they always playing from behind, thus playing against soft coverage

    To be honest though, there is no sense in going back and forth. You have made it clear that you think he is one of the worst QBs in the NFL. We will know shortly if you are wrong or right.

  13. #1513
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    At this point, I'm not going to keep defending him at every turn. His play will have to speak for itself, as he himself said. If anyone has any questions about him and his time in Baltimore, I'll gladly answer.
    Last edited by The Excellector; 08-15-2019 at 06:32 AM.

  14. #1514
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    Quote Originally Posted by Papa-pwn View Post
    Best case scenario is Flacco matches Keenum's production last year with maybe an extra TD or two. 20 TDs, 14 ints, right around bottom half in passer rating, comp %, YPA, about his career average season actually. For him to match his career average year on a new team with another year of aging would ve nothing short of astounding.

    Worst case, he continues to deteriorate and in an entirely new situation he has his worst year yet. Possibly beginning the Drew Lock era by week 7 after a combination of poor play and injuries from Flacco.

    The truth is likely somewhere in between, but that should excite no one. He will probably give us close to exactly what we got from Keenum last year, I really think he will be worse though. Maybe 10 TDs to 12 INTs before he is pulled some time midseason.
    This defies any reasonable logic - two possible outcomes that are polar opposites with no room in between.

    I'd say your best case is more likely the grey that sits above your worst case scenario and an honest best case where he exceeds your lofty expectations.

  15. #1515
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    As my Dad used to say, "Figures lie, and liars figure."

    The Broncos (or Elway) had 2 choices. Either Foles or Flacco. Sorry, but Brees, Brady, or even Rivers as some wanted in the offseason, simply weren't available. I would have preferred Foles. But, we got Flacco. He is now the Starting QB for the Denver Broncos, a team coming off of 5-11 and 6-10 seasons. There is no "Peyton Manning" to save this franchise. The problem isn't the QB, it's a lack of talent on this team. One off-season isn't likely to change that very simple fact. And attempting to measure the success or failure of the upcoming season based on a "Joe Flacco" is laughable. And predicting that an NFL QB might get injured during the season is also laughable. I don't remember age being a contributing factor in Carson Wentz' injury, or in Andrew Luck's career. Joe Flacco has missed playing full 16-game seasons only twice in his 11-season career. This is a "Team" sport where luck plays a big part.

    But, with that being said, lets see if a new coach (1st time HC), and a new OC (1st time OC who never called plays in an NFL game) can succeed with questionable talent. Miracles can happen.

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