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Thread: Flacco

  1. #1381
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butler By'Note View Post
    No I'm saying there's a large difference between a 26 year old at the beginning of his career and a 34 year old who's towards the end. Young players with potential (a word which means you haven't done anything yet) are always worth more than older players. Alex Smith has been traded twice in his career, the first time when he was younger got a bigger return than the second one even though he was a better player at the second trade.

    Second example, Peyton Manning was released and given away for nothing. RGIII was acquired for first round picks in 2012, 2013, 2014 and a second in 2012. It's almost like youth and potential are worth a lot...but then again Manning was no longer in his "prime"...

    The whole "prime" thing is a ridiculous term, because lots of players never have a big chunk of great years, they'll have excellent years then down years, then good years etc. In reality the term "prime" is for contracts and earning potential, and yeah Flacco is passed his top earning potential years.

    I've already said I don't know if the Broncos will get anything out of Flacco, I'm skeptical. But bad comparisons are bad comparisons.
    Elway (the Broncos GM) is one who made the statement that Flacco is "coming into his prime", not me. A QB coming into his prime is worth far more than a 4th round pick, as I demonstrated with the Cutler trade - a scenario involving the Broncos where a QB "coming into his prime" was traded. The comparison is valid.

    I don't think anyone here actually believes Flacco is coming into his prime. If anything his "sell by" date has come and gone quite some time ago.

    https://www.apnews.com/e6b7033e4b794f05bbfe1f3203447dc0

  2. #1382
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    Quote Originally Posted by gtown53 View Post
    Let's not get ahead of ourselves. Scangarello has two years as a QB coach, and one year as a "quality control coach" in the NFL. This is his first year as an Offensive Coordinator. Of course we all hope he steps up, but I'm trying to temper my enthusiasm for a guy who has never called a play in the NFL. I'm more concerned about a lack of experience than losing the guy as a HC to another team.

    As for Lock, he didn't "fall" anywhere. He is a 2nd Round talent (as Osweiler was a 2nd Round talent) who was taken in the 2nd Round.

    But with that being said, "Hope springs eternal". I'm hoping that Scangarello is the true "Quarterback whisperer" and an offensive prodigy. And, I'm looking forward to seeing what Lock has. More will be revealed in a couple of months.
    i never said he fell there are conserns. but he has the tools and everything to succeed.

    i also really like what i have heard on rich. he is real smart. he was the driving force behind the Niners drafting nick mullens. he also knows what the QB needs to be sucessful in the system. he is gonna run a similar system to what Shanny runs. which is a verison of the kubiak offense. so i have always enjoyed that offense. there may be a little growing pains but the offense will be a better scheme then what we have had under mccoy and musgrave for sure.

    oakland raders gm
    latavis murray trade bait

  3. #1383
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    Quote Originally Posted by gtown53 View Post
    Let's not get ahead of ourselves. Scangarello has two years as a QB coach, and one year as a "quality control coach" in the NFL. This is his first year as an Offensive Coordinator. Of course we all hope he steps up, but I'm trying to temper my enthusiasm for a guy who has never called a play in the NFL. I'm more concerned about a lack of experience than losing the guy as a HC to another team.

    As for Lock, he didn't "fall" anywhere. He is a 2nd Round talent (as Osweiler was a 2nd Round talent) who was taken in the 2nd Round.

    But with that being said, "Hope springs eternal". I'm hoping that Scangarello is the true "Quarterback whisperer" and an offensive prodigy. And, I'm looking forward to seeing what Lock has. More will be revealed in a couple of months.
    Great post, agree on all points. As optimistic as I am about Scrangerello, he is a rookie play caller and we have no idea really what his offense is going to look like, what his tendencies are going to be, and how he reacts in certain situations . Also, our quarterback coach, the guy who will be coaching up Drew Lock, he has zero track record of success in the NFL, and I would go out on a limb and say he has the job because of who he knows, which isn't uncommon in the NFL, but still, he is a nobody.

    On Drew Lock, you are correct. Drew Lock was manufactured pre-draft hype based on a quarterback class which had no depth to it, and no real top end talent, the NFL confirmed this with the way the board actually fell on draft day. Drew Lock is a solid quarterback prospect, but he is really very similar to Brock Osweiler in a lot of ways, has a lot of the same drawbacks, and had about as much success as Brock did at Arizona State. I like Lock, but his highlight videos that people have watched are not the full story, he has heaps of bad tape out there, and that is why he "fell" to us in the second round.

  4. #1384
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    PFF just released their preseason rankings of all 32 teams' receiving corps. Was an interesting read. Numbers that jumped out at me:

    Broncos Rank: 16
    Ravens Rank: 31

    If you combine the superior receiving weapons, with a comparable running game and defense, with a return to Flacco's preferred offensive scheme....doesn't seem outrageous that Flacco could have a career year, or a year towards the top of his traditional performance curve.

    Kind of excited to see what happens!

  5. #1385
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    Ravens ranked 31, up a spot from 32 where they’ve been for the past 6 years. lol

    It’s really not a myth that Joe has had zero to work with since 2012. Also O line and run game spotty at best, putrid as a norm. Will be interesting to see how things pan out for him this year in Denver.
    Last edited by JimmyT; 08-02-2019 at 05:15 PM.

  6. #1386
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    If we can protect ole' Joe, I think he and the Broncos will be pretty good. If we Can't protect him, and he gets pressured up the middle he is doomed.

  7. #1387
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capt. Jack View Post
    If we can protect ole' Joe, I think he and the Broncos will be pretty good. If we Can't protect him, and he gets pressured up the middle he is doomed.
    I’ll at least agree after last night without even seeing him that he is easily the best qb on our roster. Hope we can keep him healthy.

  8. #1388
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    As JimmyT said, it’s no secret that he was not helped very much after the Super Bowl run. One of the first things they did was trade Anquan Boldin, who was his best WR down the stretch that season once Jim Caldwell took over as OC.

    Baltimore has treated offense like the red-headed stepchild for nearly twenty years. If you look at all of the drafts that were post-Super Bowl and before Lamar Jackson arrived (2013-2017), that’s five drafts. If you take their first three picks in each of those drafts (15 picks), 12 of those picks were defense. Baltimore has long been among the leagues lowest in offensive salary. Flacco’s contract is the only reason they weren’t dead last.

    Those who have a different view will point to the large number of passing attempts that Flacco had a few years. However, they didn’t go into those seasons with the idea of throwing that much. Which means that they didn’t build the team to be able to successfully handle that. They wanted to establish the run, like they always do. The line play was so bad at times that Flacco was getting tripped up by his own linemen before he could even hand the ball off. THAT is why they threw so much. They were a bunch of safe throws anyway. Some seasons, they had to go max protect just to take deep shots.

    Baltimore doesn’t think of offense like Pittsburgh or Green Bay. Where they try to come at you with 3-4 weapons. Baltimore just wants to give Flacco that one veteran who can help move the chains, while they constantly lean on their defense. Up until Jackson was drafted, the only time they drafted a WR high was, because they needed WRs that badly.

    With the defense, they could just have a non-Ravens caliber defensive season and they’re ready to spend pick after pick on defense. For the offense? They wait until it’s so bad that they are forced to do something.

    Courtland Sutton hasn’t even played his second season and he’s already better than any WR Flacco’s had to throw to since Steve Smith Sr’s 2014 season. 2015 he tore his Achilles and 2016 he was on his last legs.

  9. #1389
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    The Ravens 2010 season ended with retread TJ Houshmanzadeh dropping a fourth and long pass that darn near hit him between the numbers (Vid is on YouTube). Did they learn? No. The next season, they traded for retread Lee Evans who piled meaningless stats with JP Losman in Buffalo. He spends the majority of the season hurt, but has a chance to make the biggest play of the season somehow. Instead, he drops the pass that would have sent the Ravens to the Super Bowl. They actually win the Super Bowl the following season with Flacco leading the way. That defense wouldn’t even crack the top ten of all time Ravens defenses. Did the organization figure it out yet? No. Even more, they traded his best WR and hired an offensive line coach (Juan Castillo), before spending the first FOUR picks in that draft on defense. Problem was, they already had a line coach of a very different discipline and the line spent the entire season confused as heck. It was so bad that even Marshal Yanda publicly acknowledged it.

    The one year the offense had structure and a set vision, was 2014, with Kubiak. Even that year, it was Steve Smith Sr. and a cloud of dust. Kubiak somehow turned Justin Forsett into a 1200+ yard rusher, the line play was exponentially better and they returned to the playoffs. They beat Pittsburgh in the playoffs for the first time in team history with Flacco as the player of the game. They then went into Gillette and Flacco gave the defense not one, but TWO 14 point leads. Belichick had to pull out trick formations and plays to keep up. The defense blew both of them.

    Kubiak decides to come to Denver and Harbaugh had no backup plan what so ever. It was just downhill from there.

    Despite bad seasons, Flacco was actually the guy who stepped up with the season on line, back to back years. They went into Pittsburgh with a chance at the division title in 16’ and Flacco gave the defense a lead with less than two minutes left. Ben did what Ben does and Antonio Brown darn near carries THREE defenders across the goalline.

    A year later, they’re back in Pittsburgh AGAIN with a chance at the division. Flacco led the offense to 35+ points and once again gave the defense the lead with around two minutes to go. Ben did what Ben does and we still went into the last week with a chance at the playoffs. It was a tough game for Flacco, but he stepped up on the fourth and, ONCE AGAIN, gave the defense a lead with less than two minutes left. The defense let Dalton convert a fourth and long to Tyler Boyd.

    Yet and still they don’t figure it out and then draft Jackson to bring excitement to the fan base.
    Last edited by The Excellector; 08-02-2019 at 09:41 PM.

  10. #1390
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    After reading many of the posts by advocates of Flacco, the story is one of an average quarterback. The themes are that he rarely had a strong supporting cast and the defense let down with games on the line. If the Broncos offense plays well it will be because he has a strong line, talented receivers and running backs. Games will be won with the defense holding leads. The supporting cast will carry Flacco, not the other way around. The expectations have been set to credit the supporting cast and defense, at least that’s my interpretation of comments by Flacco’s fans.

  11. #1391
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    No, what we’re saying is that Baltimore is one of, if not thee worst, cultures for individual QB success. He’s been marred in a “Just don’t blow it for the defense” culture. Several former Ravens have talked about it. In Baltimore, it’s sit on leads and lean on the defense. It doesn’t matter who the QB was. If you don’t change that mindset after a guy has a Super Bowl run like Flacco had, when are you ever going to change it?

  12. #1392
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    I mean, when has Joe Flacco ever been able to throw to a WR duo close to the level of a Stefon Diggs/Adam Theilen duo?

  13. #1393
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Excellector View Post
    No, what we’re saying is that Baltimore is one of, if not thee worst, cultures for individual QB success. He’s been marred in a “Just don’t blow it for the defense” culture. Several former Ravens have talked about it. In Baltimore, it’s sit on leads and lean on the defense. It doesn’t matter who the QB was. If you don’t change that mindset after a guy has a Super Bowl run like Flacco had, when are you ever going to change it?
    You could also look at it like - if it aint broke don't fix it. It isn't easy to win SB titles. When you get your self a formula I think you'd stick to it. That's what Elway seems to have been doing (outside the Vance Joseph experiment)

    So - yeah - I hope he can be happy here and rise to the occasion. To me, not having seen but a few passes in ultra short highlight clips - I have to say having Flacco feels really good after what we've been through in the post PFM era. To finally have a legit starting QB is good- but to have one that won the big cheese too? I'm feeling really good about this.

    Seems to me we'd seen a lot of fear in our QB's since Manning. Fear of getting hit - fear to let passes go - fear to fail and fear to succeed it seemed sometimes. ..... Flacco doesn't get scared and with that alone- we've upgraded our QB a metric butt ton
    Last edited by dizzolve; 08-03-2019 at 08:11 AM.
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  14. #1394
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    Man. I just noticed that we are closing in on 1500 posts before we have even seen him play a single snap for us. And that first snap will be in a 'meaningless' preseason game.I think he's going to be pretty good for us. We'll see.

  15. #1395
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Excellector View Post
    I mean, when has Joe Flacco ever been able to throw to a WR duo close to the level of a Stefon Diggs/Adam Theilen duo?
    Case Keenum led the Vikings to a 13-3 record (Keenum 11-3) and the NFC Championship with Diggs and Theilen. Flacco requiring that level of talent puts him on the level of a journeyman backup.

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