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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stackhouser View Post
    This whole topic is just opinion based so I won't debate any longer
    Elway is a fringe top 10 QB all time.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by EddieMac View Post
    In response to this:

    Manning was the better QB, hands down. Most experts and people involved with the NFL will have the same opinion.


    Maybe not

    Howard Mudd: If I get a choice of all the quarterbacks since '78, I would pick John Elway. He did a lot with less. I was coaching [for Cleveland] in the game, 'The Drive.' Did he have a great team around him? No. It was a good football team. They went to the Super Bowl. He went to five Super Bowls under different head coaches, different circumstances, different levels of defenses, all that.


    Norv Turner: Everything about him -- the talent -- was so impressive if you saw him play in person, if you coached against him. I coached against him in Stanford, while at USC. He threw a ball over 70 yards for a touchdown on a scramble. I mean, just unbelievable talent. Unbelievably hard to defend. When Elway was playing at his prime and his best, people didn't give a darn about quarterback rating. They were trying to win. A lot of guys have started throwing a bunch of touchdown passes down inside the 3. The rating went up. You can't begrudge it. But I think it helps explain the numbers a little.

    Mike Shanahan: John was the most serious competitor I have ever been around. No matter what he is doing, he is going to find a way to win. That is in every phase, not just sports. There are very, very few people like him.

    Ray Rhodes: Elway has been the all-time most-respected quarterback as far as I'm concerned. He was a hard-nosed, tough guy who competed and was a winner. He had one of the strongest arms that I had seen during that era. One of the plays they used to run, he would sprint to one side of the field with the ball and then come back and throw it all the way deep down the other side, and I had never seen a guy with that type of arm strength. He was amazing, man.
    Ha, from an article that ranks Elway below Manning! Too funny

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMR81 View Post
    Elway is a fringe top 10 QB all time.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by EddieMac View Post
    In response to this:

    Manning was the better QB, hands down. Most experts and people involved with the NFL will have the same opinion.


    Maybe not

    Howard Mudd: If I get a choice of all the quarterbacks since '78, I would pick John Elway. He did a lot with less. I was coaching [for Cleveland] in the game, 'The Drive.' Did he have a great team around him? No. It was a good football team. They went to the Super Bowl. He went to five Super Bowls under different head coaches, different circumstances, different levels of defenses, all that.


    Norv Turner: Everything about him -- the talent -- was so impressive if you saw him play in person, if you coached against him. I coached against him in Stanford, while at USC. He threw a ball over 70 yards for a touchdown on a scramble. I mean, just unbelievable talent. Unbelievably hard to defend. When Elway was playing at his prime and his best, people didn't give a darn about quarterback rating. They were trying to win. A lot of guys have started throwing a bunch of touchdown passes down inside the 3. The rating went up. You can't begrudge it. But I think it helps explain the numbers a little.

    Mike Shanahan: John was the most serious competitor I have ever been around. No matter what he is doing, he is going to find a way to win. That is in every phase, not just sports. There are very, very few people like him.

    Ray Rhodes: Elway has been the all-time most-respected quarterback as far as I'm concerned. He was a hard-nosed, tough guy who competed and was a winner. He had one of the strongest arms that I had seen during that era. One of the plays they used to run, he would sprint to one side of the field with the ball and then come back and throw it all the way deep down the other side, and I had never seen a guy with that type of arm strength. He was amazing, man.
    Also from your same article. But hey, way to cherry pick.

    Peyton Manning's Bio
    Resume
    Super Bowl titles: 2
    MVPs: 5
    First-team All-Pro: 7

    NFL ranks from 1998 to 2015*
    4th-quarter comebacks: 1st
    Game-winning drives: 1st
    Yards/attempt: 7th
    Adjusted net yards/attempt: 2nd
    *Minimum 50 starts

    Advanced metrics
    Expected team win pct: .506
    Actual team win pct: .685
    Wins above expectation: +17.9%
    Wins added per 16 games: +2.9

    John Elway's Bio
    Resume
    Super Bowl titles: 2
    MVPs: 1
    First-team All-Pro: 0

    NFL ranks from 1983 to 1998*
    4th-quarter comebacks: 1st
    Game-winning drives: 2nd
    Yards/attempt: 21st
    Adjusted net yards/attempt: 15th
    *Minimum 50 starts

    Advanced metrics
    Expected team win pct: .533
    Actual team win pct: .645
    Wins above expectation: +11.2%
    Wins added per 16 games: +1.8

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by baphamet View Post
    yeah and? joe flacco has a ring too, so does trent difler.........just like your argument about peyton vs elway, as far as playing the QB position, there is no comparison.
    Hey Baph, I just saw this. Never had heard this story. Just thought it was interesting.

    Al Saunders: I was a young coach in San Diego, about 34 years old. Don Coryell calls Ernie Zampese and I into the office and says he wants to fly us up to San Jose to have dinner with Jack Elway, John's dad. Jack was coaching at San Jose State at the time, and John was playing at Stanford. Don says, "We are going to make a trade, and we are going to select John as our quarterback." So, Ernie and I flew up there. We had dinner two nights before the draft with Jack Elway at Original Joe's restaurant in San Jose. Boy, we're drinking wine, we're eating spaghetti, we're just having a great time. Ernie and I are so excited. We get on the plane, and we see Don when we get back. "Coach, everything is great, Jack is real excited, this thing is going to work." The next day, Baltimore works out that deal with Denver and we didn't get him.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMR81 View Post
    Also from your same article. But hey, way to cherry pick.

    Peyton Manning's Bio
    Resume
    Super Bowl titles: 2
    MVPs: 5
    First-team All-Pro: 7

    NFL ranks from 1998 to 2015*
    4th-quarter comebacks: 1st
    Game-winning drives: 1st
    Yards/attempt: 7th
    Adjusted net yards/attempt: 2nd
    *Minimum 50 starts

    Advanced metrics
    Expected team win pct: .506
    Actual team win pct: .685
    Wins above expectation: +17.9%
    Wins added per 16 games: +2.9

    John Elway's Bio
    Resume
    Super Bowl titles: 2
    MVPs: 1
    First-team All-Pro: 0

    NFL ranks from 1983 to 1998*
    4th-quarter comebacks: 1st
    Game-winning drives: 2nd
    Yards/attempt: 21st
    Adjusted net yards/attempt: 15th
    *Minimum 50 starts

    Advanced metrics
    Expected team win pct: .533
    Actual team win pct: .645
    Wins above expectation: +11.2%
    Wins added per 16 games: +1.8
    I was responding to your comment about nfl people picking Elway .. so there was no cherry picking...
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  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by EddieMac View Post
    I was responding to your comment about nfl people picking Elway .. so there was no cherry picking...
    They werenít all picking Elway, which makes even less sense why you would post it.
    Last edited by SMR81; 02-26-2019 at 11:33 AM.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMR81 View Post
    They weren’t all picking Elway, which makes even less sense why you would post it.
    It’s about their comments... not a lot of what you have posted on this subject makes any sense to me..., so we can agree to disagree...

    Ahhhh the off season
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  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by EddieMac View Post
    Itís about their comments... not a lot of what you have posted on this subject makes any sense to me..., so we can agree to disagree...

    Ahhhh the off season
    I donít really expect it to make much sense to Elway homers. They think heís the greatest thing since sliced bread. The articles I did post all rank Manning above Elway, and they were not cherry picked, 4 random links off google. Then youíve also got some basic stats off of the article YOU pulled from showing Peyton taking John to school in a couple different categories. But yeah, those probably donít make sense.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMR81 View Post
    I don’t really expect it to make much sense to Elway homers. They think he’s the greatest thing since sliced bread. The articles I did post all rank Manning above Elway, and they were not cherry picked, 4 random links off google. Then you’ve also got some basic stats off of the article YOU pulled from showing Peyton taking John to school in a couple different categories. But yeah, those probably don’t make sense.

    Ok I’m gonna tell you this once... it’s a matter of opinion, a topic for discussion... so mellow out.., your continual attacking of other posters that don’t agree is wearing thin....
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  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMR81 View Post
    Clearly, Manning has never been a GM so a comparison canít be made.

    Thereís a 4 day course that starts June 27th, not a bad idea for Elway to sneak on in!

    People respect Elway for the way he went out of the game more than anything; which is why you see some rank him as a top 5 QB of all time. He is not a top 5 QB, and 10 years from now may top be a top 15. At that time Manning will still be a top 5 QB, he is straight up the superior football player.

    If they played in the same era, on the same team, Elway would hold the clip board and fetch Peytonís jockstrap when asked. Elway would never see the field other than times Peyton decides to put the game out of reach for the other team, and graciously allows Elway to have a turn.
    while you have a right to your opinion, you do realize that Elway led the league in most tds by a qb ever when he retired, he had more comeback wins than any qb ever, 2nd most yards ever, more wins than any other qb and it wasn't even close (closest was like 20 wins behind him), and then guys like farve played 5 years more than him to shatter most of those. If he played in todays era of not getting creamed every single play, pass happy league with his mobility he would be unreal. He played with scrubs most of his career, unlike manning.
    GO BRONCOS AFC Champs!!!

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by EddieMac View Post
    Ok Iím gonna tell you this once... itís a matter of opinion, a topic for discussion... so mellow out.., your continual attacking of other posters that donít agree is wearing thin....
    Most peopleís opinion is Manning > Elway. My links back that up, yours do not. Sorry if that upsets you

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by duhyaj View Post
    while you have a right to your opinion, you do realize that Elway led the league in most tds by a qb ever when he retired, he had more comeback wins than any qb ever, 2nd most yards ever, more wins than any other qb and it wasn't even close (closest was like 20 wins behind him), and then guys like farve played 5 years more than him to shatter most of those. If he played in todays era of not getting creamed every single play, pass happy league with his mobility he would be unreal. He played with scrubs most of his career, unlike manning.
    And then football evolved, players evolved, and here were are; an era with better QBs than Elwayís era.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMR81 View Post
    Most people’s opinion is Manning > Elway. My links back that up, yours do not. Sorry if that upsets you

    It doesn’t upset me at all that you defend the inferior qb

    It’s your attitude in doing so that does.
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  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by EddieMac View Post
    It doesnít upset me at all that you defend the inferior qb

    Itís your attitude in doing so that does.
    Attitude? Lol
    Iím simply posting links and basic stats that show Elway, while still great, is not on the same level as Peyton. Heís a tier 2 QB when compared to guys to Brady, Manning, Rodgers, and soon to be the new wave of guys like Mahomes and possibly Wentz if his body can hold up.

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