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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by broncos SB2010 View Post
    now all they have to do is do away with the spot foul concept and make it 15 yards and 1st down.
    Quote Originally Posted by FL BRONCO View Post
    So rather than give you an 80 yd touchdown, I can just foul you and you will get a 15 yd play. ABSOLUTELY NOT. Makes no sense. That is penalizing the non fouling team rather than the fouling team. CBs will be doing it left and right and I don't want to watch this brand of football. Liable to lessen the amount of long passes when many of them will only net you 15 yds and they are getting your best receivers mugged on a regular basis.

    Although, I bet Roby would love it
    Fully agree with FL here. If it becomes a 15 yard penalty players will just tackle receivers before the ball is there whenever they're beat deep. Why not? It's only 15 yards, not a long penalty.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanDB View Post
    Every time I see that non call in New Orleans, and I CAN NOT believe the red flags stayed in the pockets!!! It looks as bad or worse now. I know some folks may see it otherwise, but that missed call, in itself, resulted in the new rule decision.
    Quote Originally Posted by Peanut View Post
    Last year, they couldn't challenge non-calls.

    Unless you have the wrong color flag.

    It was inside two minutes so neither team could challenge anyways. But throwing that out the window, the only challenge possible on the play would have been if they threw the flag. Then the Rams could have challenged that the ball was tipped at the line, and no pass interference could take place after the tip. I don't think it was tipped but that was one of the excuses that was used at the time.

    So I'm glad they've made it where both teams can challenge the play.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by FL BRONCO View Post
    So rather than give you an 80 yd touchdown, I can just foul you and you will get a 15 yd play. ABSOLUTELY NOT. Makes no sense. That is penalizing the non fouling team rather than the fouling team. CBs will be doing it left and right and I don't want to watch this brand of football. Liable to lessen the amount of long passes when many of them will only net you 15 yds and they are getting your best receivers mugged on a regular basis.

    Although, I bet Roby would love it
    Itís not like coaches want to give up 15 yards for free.

    College doesnít do a spot foul on PI and there isnít, to my knowledge, an insane amount of PI calls.

    Your argument doesnít really stand up.

    They should at least give the 15 yard penalty a one year trial.
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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butler By'Note View Post
    It was inside two minutes so neither team could challenge anyways. But throwing that out the window, the only challenge possible on the play would have been if they threw the flag. Then the Rams could have challenged that the ball was tipped at the line, and no pass interference could take place after the tip. I don't think it was tipped but that was one of the excuses that was used at the time.

    So I'm glad they've made it where both teams can challenge the play.
    Agreed!!

    I am quite sure that few if any of us want more flags, more time outs, lengthier games......what many of us want is to get the call right, especially when most of the world watching it can see it! And yes, if it is a potentially game-changing situation that did not have to happen. Like I've mentioned, an offside call in the 1st Q of the 1st game of the season might not matter....but a blatant miss-call, with the game on the line, needs to be corrected, especially when the league has the tools to do it.

    One more thing....you might not have seen, but I said red flag when I meant yellow flag. That was a slight of mind on my part! I have a lot of those "slights of mind"!!!

  5. #35
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    Just read that this year is running at 18.4 flags per game, which is significantly higher than last season - 15.75 (or just under 17%), which was already an "active" year. Since 2009, the worst year for numbers was 2015, at 16.2., which means we are likely going to set a new record of some sort.

    Yes, safety first, and any penalties associated with that type of play are justifiable, as long as the refs do not throw a flag just because a player made a fair, but hard hit. But it's been mentioned in this board recently, Oline holding is way up, that is, in the refs' eyes.

    But hey, not just the refs at fault. The league is pressing most of the buttons. What a shame, because what could be a smooth and exciting game, sometimes feels like driving on a nice road, with a stop sign or traffic light every minute or so, even if there is little traffic.

  6. #36
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    I know I was an advocate of changing the way pass receiving was called, but I have to be honest, it's working in my books. I was just thinking how few calls I can even think of this year that were controversial. In fact, I am struggling to do so.

    I see a catch or drop, and 98% of the time I know what it is.

    The NFL got this right.

    Now......PI and Roughing the Passer have a long way to go!!!
    Last edited by CanDB; 11-03-2019 at 10:09 AM.

  7. #37
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    They didn’t get it right or wrong.

    The standard is essentially the same as before. They just worded it in a way that makes it difficult for people to piss and moan.

    I wouldn’t be surprised if the Dez Bryant non catch remained a non catch if it happened again. It wasn’t a catch. Falling down isn’t the same as running.
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  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by broncolee View Post
    They didn’t get it right or wrong.

    The standard is essentially the same as before. They just worded it in a way that makes it difficult for people to piss and moan.

    I wouldn’t be surprised if the Dez Bryant non catch remained a non catch if it happened again. It wasn’t a catch. Falling down isn’t the same as running.
    Ha ha....you and I will never agree on this. I don't see it the way you do....at all. They messed up the rules, and after strong concerns around the league and in the fanbase, they corrected it. And like I said, I don't see controversy these days, whereas that was the topic every few weeks, with the last rule definition.

    They got it right.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by broncolee View Post
    They didn’t get it right or wrong.

    The standard is essentially the same as before. They just worded it in a way that makes it difficult for people to piss and moan.

    I wouldn’t be surprised if the Dez Bryant non catch remained a non catch if it happened again. It wasn’t a catch. Falling down isn’t the same as running.
    Pretty much this. It has made no difference. There used to be 2-3 high profile debatable catches/non-catches every season and this season will be no different, a debatable catch or 2 will pop up at some point.

    Plus as you say, the one people moaned about (Dez) would probably still be ruled as a non-catch now.

    Its all pretty minimal, the NFL have far bigger problems that need addressing when it comes to rules and flags.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by bronx_2003 View Post
    Pretty much this. It has made no difference. There used to be 2-3 high profile debatable catches/non-catches every season and this season will be no different, a debatable catch or 2 will pop up at some point.

    Plus as you say, the one people moaned about (Dez) would probably still be ruled as a non-catch now.

    Its all pretty minimal, the NFL have far bigger problems that need addressing when it comes to rules and flags.
    So Bronx....seeing it's you, me and Broncolee (sounds like a song) again. Are you saying that when a rule needs changing because of the oft controversy within it, and the experts saw a need for change, and the league made the change...and there are few controversies, it was not the right thing to do? I can be stiff sometimes, but this is as clear as clear can be. Few controversies, almost no discussion about pass catching issues, less wasted time checking out calls, players agreeing that they understand the rules better.

    At what point is this not better?

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanDB View Post
    So Bronx....seeing it's you, me and Broncolee (sounds like a song) again. Are you saying that when a rule needs changing because of the oft controversy within it, and the experts saw a need for change, and the league made the change...and there are few controversies, it was not the right thing to do? I can be stiff sometimes, but this is as clear as clear can be. Few controversies, almost no discussion about pass catching issues, less wasted time checking out calls, players agreeing that they understand the rules better.

    At what point is this not better?
    I guess I'm just a bit non-fussed with the rule change, I just never saw it as a problem. It very rarely caused an issue, I can think of the Calvin Johnson TD one.... the Dez catch...... there might be 1 or 2 more I'm forgetting over the last ten years. I also thought they got it right anyway with CJ and Dez, if you can't remain control of the ball when falling to the ground then it shouldn't be a catch IMO.

    So I'm not bothered about this rule one way or the other. I think they need to concentrate on the real issues with penalties that disrupt the integrity of the game.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by bronx_2003 View Post
    I guess I'm just a bit non-fussed with the rule change, I just never saw it as a problem. It very rarely caused an issue, I can think of the Calvin Johnson TD one.... the Dez catch...... there might be 1 or 2 more I'm forgetting over the last ten years. I also thought they got it right anyway with CJ and Dez, if you can't remain control of the ball when falling to the ground then it shouldn't be a catch IMO.

    So I'm not bothered about this rule one way or the other. I think they need to concentrate on the real issues with penalties that disrupt the integrity of the game.
    OK....here's the truce. I think they improved the game with the receiving rules, or at least restored that part to where it was when I remember it to be quite simple. You don't see it that way.

    BUT I will agree with you on the bigger problems. I would consider the roughing calls (especially on the QBs), and PIs as the biggest offenders of the integrity of the game, and the most annoying. I can not tolerate that every time your team stops a 3rd down pass, you have to hold your breath until no sign of a flag is in the vicinity. it is pathetic!

    I even take exception when a defender makes a good, solid hit, but the player with the ball changes angles at the last second and the defender gets a flag for a helmet hit. The game is fast....they can not adjust in such a short timeframe. It's almost impossible.

    And would you agree....the NFL needs to not only consider how to reduce penalties, but reduce game length. That should be a mandate. Sure, penalties are part of the game. But they have to loosen up on anything borderline. Especially calls that have little impact on the play itself. And I am tired of the time taken to review and review and review.

    And if I could single out one of the worst penalty situations....it's 3rd and very long, and a very minor 5 yard PI is called that automatically makes it a first down. Those calls need to be relaxed, and the penalty should be 5 yards but no first down.
    Last edited by CanDB; 11-11-2019 at 05:40 PM.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanDB View Post
    OK....here's the truce. I think they improved the game with the receiving rules, or at least restored that part to where it was when I remember it to be quite simple. You don't see it that way.

    BUT I will agree with you on the bigger problems. I would consider the roughing calls (especially on the QBs), and PIs as the biggest offenders of the integrity of the game, and the most annoying. I can not tolerate that every time your team stops a 3rd down pass, you have to hold your breath until no sign of a flag is in the vicinity. it is pathetic!

    I even take exception when a defender makes a good, solid hit, but the player with the ball changes angles at the last second and the defender gets a flag for a helmet hit. The game is fast....they can not adjust in such a short time frame. It's almost impossible.

    And would you agree....the NFL needs to not only consider how to reduce penalties, but reduce game length. That should be a mandate. Sure, penalties are part of the game. But they have to loosen up on anything borderline. Especially calls that have little impact on the play itself. And I am tired of the time taken to review and review and review.

    And if I could single out one of the worst penalty situations....it's 3rd and very long, and a very minor 5 yard PI is called that automatically makes it a first down. Those calls need to be relaxed, and the penalty should be 5 yards but no first down.
    Yea I completely agree.

    In theory I don't have a problem with any of the rules, just how they are applied. I don't even have an issue with DPI being a spot foul, I know some just want 15 yards but what if a defender is beat deep and just yanks down the receiver knowing it will only be a 15 yard penalty. So I think the rules and penalty yardage are pretty much spot on.

    Its just applied wrongly. The refs should not be told to throw a flag if its close, they should ONLY throw a flag if it is a CLEAR and OBVIOUS infringement. People would be much happier if games were allowed to flow better, and players decided the outcome of games.

    In the playoffs they clearly make an effort to avoid throwing ticky tack flags so the players decide the outcome, I just don't understand why that is not common practice all season long. Surely that is just common sense.

    If a team were driving against Denver in the last minute to win a game and they were stopped on 4th down only for a flag to appear and give them a new set of downs, and then on replay it was a clear and obvious foul then I would have no complaint or argument, but how many times do we look at the replay and the commentator says 'where is the holding on that play'

    I watch a few other sports...... football, cricket, rugby occasionally, and the referee impact is minimal to the point that they are hardly noticed. The NFL refs play far too big a role in games, and if you get a flag friendly crew then it spoils the game. Even Brady tweeted that he turned off a game earlier in the season because the refs were making it unwatchable.

    Seriously, is it not just common sense to ONLY throw a flag on a blatant and obvious infringement, rather then being told to throw it if its close. Denver are not a good team but they can legitimately make a case that 2 or 3 games were losses rather then wins purely because of poor referee decisions, and there will be numerous other teams in the same position.

    How on earth can this be allowed to carry on season after season.

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