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Thread: Will Grier

  1. #16
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    Under rated in here by some I think.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnlimburg View Post
    4th/5th, correct. I could potentially see him going in the 3rd round if a team really falls in love with him, but it still a stretch. The guy is just a mediocre prospect in every single way, and from the first time I watched him, it was clear the arm just isn't good enough for the NFL. I will say, on them throws in the middle of the field within 10 yards of the line of scrimmage, he can put it on a receiver and is very accurate, but beyond this, the positives are far outweighed by the negatives.
    His arm isnít good enough because heís only throwing with only his arm the majority of the time. He needs to drive the ball with his lower body much like Baker Mayfied does. Watching Mayfield you can see him drop and really load up to create a lot of torque in his lower body to drive the ball deep down the field, Drew Brees does the same thing. They donít drop on shorter passes but they still create that torque to drive the ball. Will Grier does not, heís more like Cam Newton in terms of his lower body mechanics. When Grier does create that torque with his lower body his arm does look like itís got plenty of zip on it, unfortunately thatís rare for him.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by beastlyskronk View Post
    His arm isn’t good enough because he’s only throwing with only his arm the majority of the time. He needs to drive the ball with his lower body much like Baker Mayfied does. Watching Mayfield you can see him drop and really load up to create a lot of torque in his lower body to drive the ball deep down the field, Drew Brees does the same thing. They don’t drop on shorter passes but they still create that torque to drive the ball. Will Grier does not, he’s more like Cam Newton in terms of his lower body mechanics. When Grier does create that torque with his lower body his arm does look like it’s got plenty of zip on it, unfortunately that’s rare for him.
    And due to that fundamental flaw and inability to load up on passes without a solid base and clean pocket, that is why I wouldn't even entertain bringing him in. I could see some short term success for him like Tebow had here in Denver, sort of playing half of a season and game planning his way to being competitive on a solid team, but I don't see him having long term success as an NFL starter at all.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnlimburg View Post
    And due to that fundamental flaw and inability to load up on passes without a solid base and clean pocket, that is why I wouldn't even entertain bringing him in. I could see some short term success for him like Tebow had here in Denver, sort of playing half of a season and game planning his way to being competitive on a solid team, but I don't see him having long term success as an NFL starter at all.
    Thatís what coaching is for though, this should be a relatively easy fix as far as coaching goes because your body naturally tends to follow through. Heíd have at least a season barring injury behind Flacco to correct this. If Scangerello is as good as they say I have no doubt heíd get him up to par quickly.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by beastlyskronk View Post
    That’s what coaching is for though, this should be a relatively easy fix as far as coaching goes because your body naturally tends to follow through. He’d have at least a season barring injury behind Flacco to correct this. If Scangerello is as good as they say I have no doubt he’d get him up to par quickly.
    What round would you be entertaining drafting him though with this hope of developing him, and fixing his technique ? If we are talking about potentially taking him if he is still there in the 6th round, then sure I would have no problem with it. But I don't believe our roster, the way it's built right now, is suited to spending middle round picks on guys like Greir who you feel need to solve fundamental issues in their technique. I also don't see Greir being a quarterback Elway has much of any interest in based on his track record.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnlimburg View Post
    What round would you be entertaining drafting him though with this hope of developing him, and fixing his technique ? If we are talking about potentially taking him if he is still there in the 6th round, then sure I would have no problem with it. But I don't believe our roster, the way it's built right now, is suited to spending middle round picks on guys like Greir who you feel need to solve fundamental issues in their technique. I also don't see Greir being a quarterback Elway has much of any interest in based on his track record.
    Iíd say 3rd round but based on his visits (Pats, Chargers, Saints, Giants) I think heís going to get some strong looks at the back end of the first or the early portion of the 2nd round before our pick.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnlimburg View Post
    But I don't believe our roster, the way it's built right now, is suited to spending middle round picks on guys like Greir who you feel need to solve fundamental issues in their technique.
    I think you need to look deeper than wins and losses if that's your assessment. This team is fairly deep with talent.

    Grier is easily worth a 4th round pick. And I think he could be a sleeper in the right system if he has a year or two to develop.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonny_Quest View Post
    I think you need to look deeper than wins and losses if that's your assessment. This team is fairly deep with talent.

    Grier is easily worth a 4th round pick. And I think he could be a sleeper in the right system if he has a year or two to develop.
    That is one opinion, not one backed up by actual production on the field or the win loss column, I strongly disagree with that assessment. As fans of the team people often get caught up overrating their own talent, and that is expected, but this team is no where near as deep as people make out. People can continue to say look, it was this reason, in this game we almost, no, we have been out of the playoffs for 3 straight seasons now, put up back to back losing seasons for the first time since the 70s, and although we have improved personnel wise this off-season, and I am hopeful, we are not fairly deep with talent by any stretch.

    On Will Grier, I will agree with him being worthy of a 4th round pick, watching his tape and giving him an overall grade as a play-maker warrants that. But I don't see him being someone who is going to be drafted by anyone to be considered a starter right now, or a guy you are going to build around moving forward. If we are looking at quarterback, and Elway wants a young guy to develop and build up, I hope it is one of the top prospects with franchise talent. I don't want another quarterback project here.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnlimburg View Post
    That is one opinion, not one backed up by actual production on the field or the win loss column, I strongly disagree with that assessment. As fans of the team people often get caught up overrating their own talent, and that is expected, but this team is no where near as deep as people make out. People can continue to say look, it was this reason, in this game we almost, no, we have been out of the playoffs for 3 straight seasons now, put up back to back losing seasons for the first time since the 70s, and although we have improved personnel wise this off-season, and I am hopeful, we are not fairly deep with talent by any stretch.
    We lost 6 games by 23 points. That's with bottom tier coaching, scheming, gameplanning, accountability, discipline, and adjustments.

    We're a classic team ripe for a bounceback with proper coaching.

    I'm sure you would have been saying the same thing about the Rams in the offseason when McVay was first hired.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonny_Quest View Post
    We lost 6 games by 23 points. That's with bottom tier coaching, scheming, gameplanning, accountability, discipline, and adjustments.

    We're a classic team ripe for a bounceback with proper coaching.

    I'm sure you would have been saying the same thing about the Rams in the offseason when McVay was first hired.
    It doesn't matter, the facts are, we were a 5-11 team, and as far as excuses go, you hit everyone short of blaming the actual players on the field. Do you think when Fangio was brought in here and he assembled his staff, do you think he said, don't bother with player evaluations, it was all the coaching, scheming, game planning, accountability, discipline, and lack of adjustments ? No.

    I agree we are a solid candidate for a bounce back, I never said otherwise. I like the coaching staff Elway has put together, I appear to be one of the few supporters of the Joe Flacco move, I think we got better during free agency, and the draft has even yet to happen. But that doesn't change the fact that last year we just weren't very talented, and when you compound that with a mediocre coaching, you are going to lose.

    Also, fans blame coaches for everything when they don't actually know what they are looking at, and I bet we could go through games where this fan base blamed solely coaching, and the same people couldn't point to anything schematic as to why the results were what they were. My favourite one was when Joe Woods was blamed for the 200 plus yards of rushing given up to the Jets, yet over 160 of those yards came after missed tackles where players were actually in position to make the tackles.

    ** LOADING RESPONSE **

    It was because they had no motivation because the coaching staff sucked.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnlimburg View Post
    It doesn't matter, the facts are, we were a 5-11 team, and as far as excuses go, you hit everyone short of blaming the actual players on the field. Do you think when Fangio was brought in here and he assembled his staff, do you think he said, don't bother with player evaluations, it was all the coaching, scheming, game planning, accountability, discipline, and lack of adjustments ? No.

    I agree we are a solid candidate for a bounce back, I never said otherwise. I like the coaching staff Elway has put together, I appear to be one of the few supporters of the Joe Flacco move, I think we got better during free agency, and the draft has even yet to happen. But that doesn't change the fact that last year we just weren't very talented, and when you compound that with a mediocre coaching, you are going to lose.

    Also, fans blame coaches for everything when they don't actually know what they are looking at, and I bet we could go through games where this fan base blamed solely coaching, and the same people couldn't point to anything schematic as to why the results were what they were. My favourite one was when Joe Woods was blamed for the 200 plus yards of rushing given up to the Jets, yet over 160 of those yards came after missed tackles where players were actually in position to make the tackles.

    ** LOADING RESPONSE **

    It was because they had no motivation because the coaching staff sucked.
    I'm with you on Flacco.

    I think coaching counts for a lot more than you think. The one-season difference between Fisher and McVay is pretty staggering. Same with Nagy and Fox.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnlimburg View Post
    It doesn't matter, the facts are, we were a 5-11 team, and as far as excuses go, you hit everyone short of blaming the actual players on the field. Do you think when Fangio was brought in here and he assembled his staff, do you think he said, don't bother with player evaluations, it was all the coaching, scheming, game planning, accountability, discipline, and lack of adjustments ? No.

    I agree we are a solid candidate for a bounce back, I never said otherwise. I like the coaching staff Elway has put together, I appear to be one of the few supporters of the Joe Flacco move, I think we got better during free agency, and the draft has even yet to happen. But that doesn't change the fact that last year we just weren't very talented, and when you compound that with a mediocre coaching, you are going to lose.

    Also, fans blame coaches for everything when they don't actually know what they are looking at, and I bet we could go through games where this fan base blamed solely coaching, and the same people couldn't point to anything schematic as to why the results were what they were. My favourite one was when Joe Woods was blamed for the 200 plus yards of rushing given up to the Jets, yet over 160 of those yards came after missed tackles where players were actually in position to make the tackles.

    ** LOADING RESPONSE **

    It was because they had no motivation because the coaching staff sucked.


    Well said!!

    Fan; "Vance is calling a terrible game on D"

    Monday morning film.... Horrible run fits, missed tackles...etc..

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diggs4 View Post


    Well said!!

    Fan; "Vance is calling a terrible game on D"

    Monday morning film.... Horrible run fits, missed tackles...etc..
    Yet those same players made every tackle, and nailed every angle under Kubiak and Wade.

    Funny how that works...

  14. #29
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    I do think this team has a lot of talent. I think Sutton and Patrick are going to take big steps forward this year. Hamilton Iím reserved about. I think Fumagalli will turn some heads, and if Butt can stay healthy thatís a good receiving group. Lindsay should pick up where he left off and Freeman was looking good as a bruiser before his ankle injury. I believe the oline will be better but they will still be the weak area on the team unless we hit it hard in the draft.

    Defensively, I like Gotsis and Harris on the dline. Walker in a 1 gap still has a lot of potential. I think weíre hanging onto Wolfe too long but Von loves the dirty work he does. Obviously Von and Chubb but Holland looks like a diamond in the rough. Will Parks looked good last season, Simmons flashes but isnít consistent, I think heís the biggest candidate to improve under new coaching. I like Yiadom a lot as a young CB and getting Callahan and Jackson to go with Harris gives us a solid secondary. Inside LB is awful right now with Jewell and Davis, I donít think either are or will ever be capable starters, just not enough speed.

    Even without the additions I thought we had a lot of talent, they are just young and need experience. Iíd love to hit the oline hard in the draft and try to get at least one of the top 5 MLBs in the draft. I actually like Bierria and think heíll push the other guys this season. Although I could also see us pushing hard for a slot WR (Hardman or AJ Brown).

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by beastlyskronk View Post
    I do think this team has a lot of talent. I think Sutton and Patrick are going to take big steps forward this year. Hamilton I’m reserved about. I think Fumagalli will turn some heads, and if Butt can stay healthy that’s a good receiving group. Lindsay should pick up where he left off and Freeman was looking good as a bruiser before his ankle injury. I believe the oline will be better but they will still be the weak area on the team unless we hit it hard in the draft.

    Defensively, I like Gotsis and Harris on the dline. Walker in a 1 gap still has a lot of potential. I think we’re hanging onto Wolfe too long but Von loves the dirty work he does. Obviously Von and Chubb but Holland looks like a diamond in the rough. Will Parks looked good last season, Simmons flashes but isn’t consistent, I think he’s the biggest candidate to improve under new coaching. I like Yiadom a lot as a young CB and getting Callahan and Jackson to go with Harris gives us a solid secondary. Inside LB is awful right now with Jewell and Davis, I don’t think either are or will ever be capable starters, just not enough speed.

    Even without the additions I thought we had a lot of talent, they are just young and need experience. I’d love to hit the oline hard in the draft and try to get at least one of the top 5 MLBs in the draft. I actually like Bierria and think he’ll push the other guys this season. Although I could also see us pushing hard for a slot WR (Hardman or AJ Brown).
    i bolded where i lose you. you need to reevalute the secondary a bit Jackson and Simmons or Jackson and parks will be our starting safeties. i don't think parks gets much of an uptick there. taking everything that i have read is about Jackson as one of the starting safeties in denver. i feel we still really thin and may have to count as Yaidom as the number 3 or put Callahan outside on WR. our CB group lacks a bigger guy who can pair up against the good big WR like Mike Evans.

    We do need MLb but there are some Mid ILB who may be able to show up and start on day one. i really Like a Germaine Pratt for example.

    oakland raders gm
    latavis murray trade bait

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