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  1. #286
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam_Z View Post
    Fair enough!

    Iím just curious and Iím not asking who should start, however I just want your opinion on Wilkenson right now?

    He is an udrafted free agent which seems to be a strength of Elways, and that is the ability to find quality undrafted players but how far could you see him going in the NFL, wether it be with the broncos or another team?
    At this time I see Eli Wilkinson as a Swing Tackle who can kick inside to G, if needed. His development is a step in the direction of quality depth and he is a valuable player as a result of his hard work.

    If he needs to go in at T, we'll find out if Munchak will shuffle. Against the Niners he was second team LT. He struggles with outside speed rushers, but there are ways to mitigate that with formations.

  2. #287
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    Quote Originally Posted by arapaho View Post
    I don’t wanna steal anyone’s pitchfork or torch before you run the monster bolles out of town

    But

    https://mavensports.io/broncos/news/...UaZhTdOx-6keQ/


    Fangio's response was surprising.

    “On the play you’re particularly talking about, it wasn’t his fault there on that," Fangio said on Wednesday. "He was supposed to get a chip from the tight end. He set accordingly to get that chip. The tight end didn’t chip him, which put Garett in a bad spot and caused that holding penalty. That wasn’t Garett at all.”
    That does add a wrinkle now, doesn't it?

  3. #288
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rastic View Post
    That does add a wrinkle now, doesn't it?
    Not to the people who already made up their minds...

    Very interesting though. This goes back to the PFF conversation. You can't fully judge a player on his 1 on 1 match-up as it doesn't account for what their assignment was on that particular play.

  4. #289
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    Quote Originally Posted by arapaho View Post
    I don’t wanna steal anyone’s pitchfork or torch before you run the monster bolles out of town

    But

    https://mavensports.io/broncos/news/...UaZhTdOx-6keQ/


    Fangio's response was surprising.

    “On the play you’re particularly talking about, it wasn’t his fault there on that," Fangio said on Wednesday. "He was supposed to get a chip from the tight end. He set accordingly to get that chip. The tight end didn’t chip him, which put Garett in a bad spot and caused that holding penalty. That wasn’t Garett at all.”
    Other posters and me have said the only people who really know the whole story are the people inside the Broncos franchise.

    This is exactly why we say this. There is no stat or "eye test" that can account for plays like this.
    Win lose or tie Bronco fan til I die

  5. #290
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    Quote Originally Posted by JW7 View Post
    Not to the people who already made up their minds...

    Very interesting though. This goes back to the PFF conversation. You can't fully judge a player on his 1 on 1 match-up as it doesn't account for what their assignment was on that particular play.
    Pass protection involves everyone not running a route. Pass protection slides, hands off and doubles depending on the formation and the play. PFF doesn't know any of that stuff, nor do they know the D that calls fronts and coverages.

  6. #291
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    Quote Originally Posted by samparnell View Post
    Pass protection involves everyone not running a route. Pass protection slides, hands off and doubles depending on the formation and the play. PFF doesn't know any of that stuff, nor do they know the D that calls fronts and coverages.
    Yeah, I understand all of that. I still think it's a good tool to analyze players but you have to take it with a grain of salt.

  7. #292
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    Quote Originally Posted by arapaho View Post
    I donít wanna steal anyoneís pitchfork or torch before you run the monster bolles out of town

    But

    https://mavensports.io/broncos/news/...UaZhTdOx-6keQ/


    Fangio's response was surprising.

    ďOn the play youíre particularly talking about, it wasnít his fault there on that," Fangio said on Wednesday. "He was supposed to get a chip from the tight end. He set accordingly to get that chip. The tight end didnít chip him, which put Garett in a bad spot and caused that holding penalty. That wasnít Garett at all.Ē
    Quote Originally Posted by Rastic View Post
    That does add a wrinkle now, doesn't it?
    Not it the big picture it doesnít. If you remove that play Bolles still had a bad night.

  8. #293
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    Quote Originally Posted by JW7 View Post
    Yeah, I understand all of that. I still think it's a good tool to analyze players but you have to take it with a grain of salt.
    Nothing is perfect.

    I agree PFF is a useful tool. I have not paid for their service going on two years but they had a lot more deeper stats than other places had available. Honestly they put more effort into a universal grading system than anyone else I have seen. I respect that even if the results are not always what I want them to be.

    Not everyone can say that.

    Only the people inside the franchise can give the most accurate grading system because they know the play calls.
    Win lose or tie Bronco fan til I die

  9. #294
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnlimburg View Post
    Completely dismiss ? As I said, some statistics they produce are great, they are measurable, but some are horrible. These allow for individual opinion to influence them and subjective to dictate the result, like the one you cited, that is why I personally cherry pick their statistics and dismiss the one you used.
    agreed
    ....

  10. #295
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    Quote Originally Posted by JW7 View Post
    The link I posted showed he had the 3rd best rate for pressures allowed for left tackles in the last 7 weeks of the season. Not sure why me saying he was trending in the right direction is not even considered. He has had a good preseason outside of Monday night. I feel like a lot of people here have a personal vendetta against the guy.
    Itís not good enough to play well two of three games. In the regular season that would translate to playing well five or six games.

  11. #296
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    Quote Originally Posted by beastlyskronk View Post
    Wilkinson played worse at LT, he just didnít have a holding call that negated a big play. Wilkinson has really struggled at LT and even at RT when matched up against speed.
    Youíve had some great points in the discussion. I disagree about Wilkinson. Iím not sure if you replayed every snap with Bolles and Wilkinson - Wilkinson was much better and it wasnít close.

  12. #297
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    Has Elijah Wilkinson played first team LT against first team D during preseason games this year?

  13. #298
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    Quote Originally Posted by samparnell View Post
    Has Elijah Wilkinson played first team LT against first team D during preseason games this year?
    Total guess...No

  14. #299
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    Quote Originally Posted by broncos SB2010 View Post
    Total guess...No
    Yeah, I was trying to remember. I think the only first team guys in the HOF game were Bolles, Risner and McGovern for a few snaps. Didn't Barclay start at RG? Was it Wilkinson at RT?

    Leary hasn't played yet, so first team O-Line at Seattle was the other starters plus Barclay at RG, I believe.

    Against the Niners it was first team minus Leary with Austin Schlottmann at RG. When first team went out, Schlottmann stayed at RG and was joined by Wilkinson at LT, Barclay at LG, Brendel at C and Jake Rodgers at RT. Schlottmann stayed at RG for the first half and was replaced by Sam Jones in the second half with the rest of the guys playing out the remainder of the game.

    There was a report today that said Wilkinson was taking reps at RG. Fangio was quoted saying that he was thinking about not playing any first team guys in the last two preseason games. If he can work out a deal with the Rams and Cards, they could put together a rotation that would give second and third team guys a couple of games to clear up some of the roster decisions for bubble guys.

    IMO the only matchups that are indicative of how the team really looks are the ones between starters/first team. Even that is no game plan from a vanilla playlist. As far as O-Linemen are concerned, it's instructive to plug in a depth guy with the starters to find out how the backups look in the event they are needed. I'm sure they were interested to see how Schlottmann did with first team. It was a big deal for him. If Leary can't play on 9 Sept., I think they'll put Wilkinson at RG.
    "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

  15. #300
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    I believe Wilkinson started seven games last season. As an undrafted rookie in 2017 he earned a spot on the practice squad. In 2018 he practiced every position on the line except center. Through hard work he made the roster and was called on to start seven games.

    Fast forward to 2019 and Scangarello was asked which player has stood out most to him thus far: ďI'll say Elijah Wilkinson, the tackle that was here the day we got here. He was an undrafted free agent coming out of college, I believe. He was a lot heavier, he's lost weight. He's a very athletic and a great scheme fit. I just like the way he works out here. I think Mike Munchak has done a great job honing out his skillset and really helping him develop. I think he is a good football player. I think he is a guy that we are very happy with up to this point.Ē

    If Leary isnít ready, and itís looking more like he wonít, itís likely Wilkinson will start at RG. Or they might use Schlottman and save Wilkinson in case they need him at LT/RT. Bolles needs to play well consistently through the first quarter of the season. If Wilkinson is available and Bolles is struggling, I believe theyíll make a change.

    I hope Bolles plays really well because that would be great for the offense. If he doesnít, make the change.
    Last edited by Fantaztic7; 08-22-2019 at 03:42 AM.

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