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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich_C View Post
    The bigger question- sorry two questions are...

    1 does he recognize he has a problem and is he trying to fix it?

    2 why was he so inaccurate? Footwork? Motion? Or was it just "bad brains"? I think the technique items can be fixed but I think at this stage in these guys careers fixing mental issues will not end well.
    Ok but it's funny how people judge a qb after one year. It takes at least 3 to 4 years. Lamar wasn't asked to throw much when flac went down he had to come in and do what he could with the plays that were called. He will have a full offseason to improve. He still had the best record out of all qbs drafted last years and the only one that made it to the playoffs.

  2. #77
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    Sep 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ear2dastreets View Post
    Ok but it's funny how people judge a qb after one year. It takes at least 3 to 4 years. Lamar wasn't asked to throw much when flac went down he had to come in and do what he could with the plays that were called. He will have a full offseason to improve. He still had the best record out of all qbs drafted last years and the only one that made it to the playoffs.
    Best record on a team with the best defense in the league. Running a run system that is hard to stop at first but always gets figured out. The other QBs were selecting to real bad teams with top picks. Ravens were a middle of the pack team last year that only need a couple pieces to make the next jump. You act as if Jackson was on the browns, Jets, Card, or buffalo theyíd be in the playoffs too because of him.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ear2dastreets View Post
    Ok but it's funny how people judge a qb after one year. It takes at least 3 to 4 years. Lamar wasn't asked to throw much when flac went down he had to come in and do what he could with the plays that were called. He will have a full offseason to improve. He still had the best record out of all qbs drafted last years and the only one that made it to the playoffs.
    I am sorry but you don't know if he was or wasn't asked to throw. Neither do I for that matter. Were some of his run plays meant to be passing plays and he just tucked it and ran instead? I don't know....neither do you. What I do know is simple - he does not have the body type that Tebow has. That is important because in order to absorb the hits that a running QB will take he needs that body type to do so. I can honestly not think of a single "thin" QB who was a runner who did not get hurt as a result of taking those extra shots. The only way he can avoid getting killed (read as injured) on the field is to start adapting and FAST!

    I think it is a fair statement to say that Lamar has likely always been the fastest guy on nearly all fields he's played on. So as a result he has simply relied on running the ball. Conversely Murray as a QB has taken a different approach with his ability to run and he has decided to learn how to dissect a defense and become a pass 1st run 2nd type of player. I believe in one of the "football shows" it was Mark S. who said it and I really liked this paraphrased quote " You want a QB who, when the play breaks down, uses his head 1st and not his feet 1st." He went onto clarify that doesn't mean that running the ball in that situation doesn't have its place (it does) but running the ball should be near the bottom of the list of options not "THE" default and goto option. Here in Denver we have already seen what a QB like that looks like. We had Tebow. He first came onto the field he blew people away because he was a beast with the ball in his hands. The issue was that his default was run when his pass options didn't look "perfect". In the NFL compared to college - those are more often than not. Lamar (unlike his current backup) needs to start working on using his head, reading coverage's and throwing the ball. That way when he runs the ball he is more of a Russell Wilson type of QB who is a pass 1st run when needed. That to me is Lamar's best and - IMO - ONLY shot at success. If he cannot move in that direction then I fear he will suffer an injury like RGlll did.

  4. #79
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    Dec 2004
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    Dallas, TX but from Conifer
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    128
    I loved Morton!

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Murph2432 View Post
    Best record on a team with the best defense in the league. Running a run system that is hard to stop at first but always gets figured out. The other QBs were selecting to real bad teams with top picks. Ravens were a middle of the pack team last year that only need a couple pieces to make the next jump. You act as if Jackson was on the browns, Jets, Card, or buffalo they’d be in the playoffs too because of him.
    I would say you are only going on def....browns had way better offense players than the ravens did. And we will never know if would or wouldn't have now would we??

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich_C View Post
    I am sorry but you don't know if he was or wasn't asked to throw. Neither do I for that matter. Were some of his run plays meant to be passing plays and he just tucked it and ran instead? I don't know....neither do you. What I do know is simple - he does not have the body type that Tebow has. That is important because in order to absorb the hits that a running QB will take he needs that body type to do so. I can honestly not think of a single "thin" QB who was a runner who did not get hurt as a result of taking those extra shots. The only way he can avoid getting killed (read as injured) on the field is to start adapting and FAST!

    I think it is a fair statement to say that Lamar has likely always been the fastest guy on nearly all fields he's played on. So as a result he has simply relied on running the ball. Conversely Murray as a QB has taken a different approach with his ability to run and he has decided to learn how to dissect a defense and become a pass 1st run 2nd type of player. I believe in one of the "football shows" it was Mark S. who said it and I really liked this paraphrased quote " You want a QB who, when the play breaks down, uses his head 1st and not his feet 1st." He went onto clarify that doesn't mean that running the ball in that situation doesn't have its place (it does) but running the ball should be near the bottom of the list of options not "THE" default and goto option. Here in Denver we have already seen what a QB like that looks like. We had Tebow. He first came onto the field he blew people away because he was a beast with the ball in his hands. The issue was that his default was run when his pass options didn't look "perfect". In the NFL compared to college - those are more often than not. Lamar (unlike his current backup) needs to start working on using his head, reading coverage's and throwing the ball. That way when he runs the ball he is more of a Russell Wilson type of QB who is a pass 1st run when needed. That to me is Lamar's best and - IMO - ONLY shot at success. If he cannot move in that direction then I fear he will suffer an injury like RGlll did.
    Yea he just ran in college and didn't have any throwing stats. I'm not gonna compare him to any other qb just bc he is considered to be a running qb. Tebow had one of the slowing and longest releases that was a be knock on him. As for getting Hurt it's the NFL inside the pocket or outside it just takes one hit for a qb season to be over.

  7. #82
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    Jan 2005
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    Iowa
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    Quote Originally Posted by KWHIT97 View Post
    Thought it would be cool to start a thread where we share our wildest draft night dreams. I will start;

    1. Kyler Murray does NOT get drafted by the Cardinals. He falls to #3 overall.

    2. Elway, who has shown zero interest in Murray (by design) makes the move.

    3. We trade our 2019 1st, 2019 3rd, and 2020 1st to jump up to #3. We draft Kyler Murray!

    4. Then in round 2 ILB Mack Wilson falls into our laps at 41, we nab him.

    5. In round 4 we take NT Daylon Mack.

    6. We trade our 5th for ILB Darron Lee

    7. We use the rest of our picks on o-linemen as well as a few UDFAs.

    If this were to happen, I would take a week off work to celebrate. Howís about you?
    Well you could be right on the whole Cardinals not picking Murray thing.....

    https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...1-by-cardinals

    But imo, it will be the Raiders trading up for him not us


    Andy Jano 2017 adopted Bronco

  8. #83
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    May 2008
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    2,372
    I just want Denver to solidify the OL and use some picks to add quality depth to the DL.

  9. #84
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    Jun 2007
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    the gulf of mexico
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich_C View Post
    I am sorry but you don't know if he was or wasn't asked to throw. Neither do I for that matter. Were some of his run plays meant to be passing plays and he just tucked it and ran instead? I don't know....neither do you. What I do know is simple - he does not have the body type that Tebow has. That is important because in order to absorb the hits that a running QB will take he needs that body type to do so. I can honestly not think of a single "thin" QB who was a runner who did not get hurt as a result of taking those extra shots. The only way he can avoid getting killed (read as injured) on the field is to start adapting and FAST!

    I think it is a fair statement to say that Lamar has likely always been the fastest guy on nearly all fields he's played on. So as a result he has simply relied on running the ball. Conversely Murray as a QB has taken a different approach with his ability to run and he has decided to learn how to dissect a defense and become a pass 1st run 2nd type of player. I believe in one of the "football shows" it was Mark S. who said it and I really liked this paraphrased quote " You want a QB who, when the play breaks down, uses his head 1st and not his feet 1st." He went onto clarify that doesn't mean that running the ball in that situation doesn't have its place (it does) but running the ball should be near the bottom of the list of options not "THE" default and goto option. Here in Denver we have already seen what a QB like that looks like. We had Tebow. He first came onto the field he blew people away because he was a beast with the ball in his hands. The issue was that his default was run when his pass options didn't look "perfect". In the NFL compared to college - those are more often than not. Lamar (unlike his current backup) needs to start working on using his head, reading coverage's and throwing the ball. That way when he runs the ball he is more of a Russell Wilson type of QB who is a pass 1st run when needed. That to me is Lamar's best and - IMO - ONLY shot at success. If he cannot move in that direction then I fear he will suffer an injury like RGlll did.
    This just isnít true, yes Lamar has always been the best athlete on the field but heís always looked to pass first before running. If you charted how often he ran on a designed pass play in college you would see that it was a lot lower than actual running QBs. When heís forces to scramble he looks for open targets down field before he takes off. The only time he runs after his first read is when pressure is closing in all around him and generally if he breaks free from that he still looks for a WR. The Ravens did a TERRIBLE job developing him once he became the starter. They knew they could make the playoffs forcing him to run because he opens up so much room for the RBs so they ran him and the RBs into the dirt at the expense of his development. And this is also why I think Lamar couldíve took any team that drafted him to the playoffs, even the Cardinals and Bills. Do his mechanics need work? Absolutely but so does every other QB coming out every year. Jackson showed that he can make any throw you ask him to make last season, he just canít be relied on to do it consistently at this point in his career. If you work with him on widening his base and following through with his back leg and his throwing arm when he throws he can absolutely be the great pocket passing QB that he wants to be. It sounds easy but when youíre telling him to keep his throwing base narrow so he can utilize his athleticism better then it sets back everything else youíre trying to fix. But judging by the Ravens offseason moves they are content to run him in the dirt and have to draft another QB in the next year or two. That isnít to say Jackson canít develop, thatís a statement on the laziness of the coaching staff. Roman failed to develop Kaepernick who after however many years still had the long baseball windup when he threw. And watching every game that Jackson started, Baltimore didnít do a damn thing to try and fix the bad habits that college instilled into Jackson. Mentally he has what you want in a pocket passer long term(maybe reading coverages takes a bit longer but he can do it) but if the coaches donít do commit to fixing it because theyíd rather make the playoffs now than be perennial contenders then you wonít ever see the return on your investment.

    Petrino instiled so many bad habits into Jackson at Louisville because he wanted Jackson to run because that was the only equalizer he had for the poor talent around him. College coaches do absolutely nothing to develop QBs for the NFL, if anything they make it harder for coaches to develop them when they get there by making bad habits worse and creating even worse habits that they have to coach out of them.

  10. #85
    Join Date
    May 2008
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    2,372
    Quote Originally Posted by beastlyskronk View Post
    ...

    Petrino instiled so many bad habits into Jackson at Louisville because he wanted Jackson to run because that was the only equalizer he had for the poor talent around him. College coaches do absolutely nothing to develop QBs for the NFL, if anything they make it harder for coaches to develop them when they get there by making bad habits worse and creating even worse habits that they have to coach out of them.
    On a tangent note:
    I wonder what percentage of college coaches feel it's their job to develop QBs for the NFL?
    It could be they're too concerned with trying to recruit elite talent to win games which affords
    the university more money, kind of like the NFL but with no draft.

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