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  1. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capt. Jack View Post
    This is kinda a hard situation, on one hand it would be great to sign him, but with last years injury, he could have a problematic bad wheel going forward? He wants a lot of loot, just like a used car, once it starts breaking down, it could be one thing after another? That old saying "putting Good money after bad"?
    (JMO)
    Not to dismiss an injury - it was a small fracture and one that healed fairly quickly. Had the Broncos managed to get into the playoffs, I would have bet money on him playing. I donít think itís ďputting good money after badĒ. More like, ďNot much money left with the cap for a good playerĒ.

    Sit down over a good dinner, work through a deal and put this issue to rest.....

  2. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
    Being passionate doesnít justify berating a teammate. As far as Manning and Brady, Harris hasnít come close to playing half the number of games theyíve played at a high level. Theyíve been responsible for winning or losing for every game. Theyíve taken far more criticism from fans and the media for their mistakes than Harris will ever hear. Weíve seen them be critical of players on the field however, I donít recall them berating players in the same manner as Harris.

    As far as Harris approaching Elway the only things we can go by are reports from the media. Saying he wants to retire with the Broncos is something players often say about the team they play for. If he really meant what he said, why so quick to tweet his demands to the public? Besides itís a general statement and not specific with respect to a contract negotiation.

    The fact that other teams arenít offering enough to persuade Elway to trade him says a lot.

    I hope Elway and Harris can come to an agreement. Heís a very good player. At the same time heís not going to get $15 million per year with a $60 million contract. There are always two sides to the story. Weíll see what happens.
    I donít agree with that, that sounds like youíre saying because theyíre QBs and high profile QBs at that, that they get a pass because of it. At the end of the day this game is their career, and if someone else messing up is cutting into your and the teamís success and ultimately your money, then you have every reason to be upset. Also how can you say theyíre being critical but Harris is berating them? Do you have audio of Chris Harris berating them? We know Peyton called Vanderjagt an idiot kicker that got liquored up before a game, we heard Manning get into it with Jeff Saturday. I can understand his frustration with Saturday but the Vanderjagt thing was over the line. Was Vanderjagt wrong? Absolutely but he doesnít need to put that out to the world, thatís crossing a line.

    Again how do we know he was quick to tweet his demands? If he let Elway and the team know in his exit interview that he wanted a new contract then this has been brewing for months. And I think a player going on 30 entering the final year of a contract that he took a hometown discount on and has acknowledged that is what he did multiple times, when that player says he wants to retire with the team I think we can infer that heís wanting to negotiate a new contract. I want to be clear though, Iím not saying that he definitely told Elway that, I donít know for sure. Iím just saying that we donít have all the information and we will likely never have all the information but this is what Iím getting from trying to read between the lines.

  3. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by beastlyskronk View Post
    I donít agree with that, that sounds like youíre saying because theyíre QBs and high profile QBs at that, that they get a pass because of it. At the end of the day this game is their career, and if someone else messing up is cutting into your and the teamís success and ultimately your money, then you have every reason to be upset. Also how can you say theyíre being critical but Harris is berating them? Do you have audio of Chris Harris berating them? We know Peyton called Vanderjagt an idiot kicker that got liquored up before a game, we heard Manning get into it with Jeff Saturday. I can understand his frustration with Saturday but the Vanderjagt thing was over the line. Was Vanderjagt wrong? Absolutely but he doesnít need to put that out to the world, thatís crossing a line.

    Again how do we know he was quick to tweet his demands? If he let Elway and the team know in his exit interview that he wanted a new contract then this has been brewing for months. And I think a player going on 30 entering the final year of a contract that he took a hometown discount on and has acknowledged that is what he did multiple times, when that player says he wants to retire with the team I think we can infer that heís wanting to negotiate a new contract. I want to be clear though, Iím not saying that he definitely told Elway that, I donít know for sure. Iím just saying that we donít have all the information and we will likely never have all the information but this is what Iím getting from trying to read between the lines.
    Iím not going to go back and debate whether or not Manning was criticized for what he said about Vanderjagt or getting into it with Jeff Saturday. There are situations in which players are treated differently because of their profile - life isnít fair. How many players can get away with yelling and pointing at a coach? Tom Brady did because he is Tom Brady.

    The point I was trying to make is that is that maybe Elway sees an issue with chemistry because of his actions. Itís just my opinion based on how Iíve seen him react to players on the field. Maybe itís as simple as a contract dispute.

    As far as the hometown discount I think that is a bit of a myth. Harris received the security of a long term contract with a large share in guaranteed money. As far as being upset about part of his compensation being tied to team wins (and how other players perform), he agreed to the terms. Now he wants to blame Elway for a contract he agreed to? Itís like someone leasing a car and blaming the dealer because they heard someone else got a better deal. His approach to the contract reinforces the way he blames others for what happens on the field.

    We havenít seen Elway tweeting ďIíll trade you not pay youĒ, have we? Itís the way Harris is airing his demands through social media that put Elway in a corner before the draft. Is that the best way to negotiate?
    Last edited by Fantaztic7; 05-03-2019 at 04:35 AM.

  4. #199
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    I think some people are forgetting that Harris JR. is still under contract for one more year. I love Chris as a player but really think less of him and his agent for airing this through the media to put pressure on Elway and/or the Broncos front office. I don't seem Elway as being one who can be pushed around by agents or players. If Elway wants to extend Harris he will make a offer, but Chris still has one more year on his deal!

  5. #200
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    Von Miller did the same thing.

  6. #201
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    I'm on the side of paying him what he deserves . I think 13 million is fair . If Elway is paying someone 11 who isn't as good then CHJ is worth it to me. That said , why is there ever an issue when a player has 1 or 2 yrs left on their contract. If hes got 1 year left he should play it out.

  7. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by orange crush75 View Post
    I'm on the side of paying him what he deserves . I think 13 million is fair . If Elway is paying someone 11 who isn't as good then CHJ is worth it to me. That said , why is there ever an issue when a player has 1 or 2 yrs left on their contract. If hes got 1 year left he should play it out.
    He might just have to

  8. #203
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    Harris didn't give us any kind of "hometown discount" unless the contract is fulfilled. This right now is the "hometown discount". Fans give him credit for something he's actually said he will refuse to do.

    What he really got was a nice signing bonus and other structured contract advantages for both Harris then and Denver now.

  9. #204
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    The contract for Harris will be about guaranteed money, as usual. Since Harris still has a year left on his current contract, throwing that deal out and just doing a new contract would be the best way to deal with it… IMO. For instance the new contract would still have to include the 866,000 of dead money in terms of cap hit, not a big deal there. But Harris' 2019 salary is/was 8.7M, he wants it to be more like 15M. Lets see what a contract for ~15M per year would maybe look like…
    How about 4 years 60M, 30M guaranteed with 20M at signing. Structure it so it is not as much or not much more than the 8.7M he is scheduled to make.
    20M signing bonus would equal 5M per year on the cap.
    Year 1 - 5M + 3.5M salary = 8.5M cap hit + 866,000 from the dead money on the "voided" contract. This would mean no real difference in his cap hit for 2019 but he does get 23.5M within the first 12 months.
    This leaves 51.5M of cap money to be accounted for through the 4 years. If we just divided that by 3 it would be a cap hit of 17.17M per year. But since only half the contract is actually guaranteed it might be beneficial to the team to not just divide evenly?
    Year 2 - 5M + 9M salary = 14M cap hit leaves 37.17M to account for over 4 years
    Year 3 - 5M + 12.17M salary = 17.17M cap hit leaves 20M to account for if still on team in year 4.
    Year 4 - 5M dead money as Harris is cut? Or 15M salary + 5M = 20M cap hit keeping him at 32 years old.
    I don't think 15M is far too high but I do think that they can get him signed for a little less per year.
    If we look at comparable CBs salary/performance 15M is not wildly high either.

    Josh Norman got 15M per year back in 2016. In fact his contract was for 5 years 75M with a cap hit in the first year just 8M but 20M in the 2nd season and 16.8M in the 3rd, this years cap hit is 14.5M at 31 years old. Since being with Washington he has not made a Pro Bowl or All Pro team, he has 1 Pro Bowl and All Pro honors in 2015.

    Janoris Jenkins, 31 years old in October his cap hit is 14.75 this season on a contract that averaged 12.5M, 28.8M guaranteed in 2016, he has 1 pro bowl and 1, 2nd team all pro in 2016 in his career.

    Trumaine Johnson, 29 this season his cap hit is 14.5M this season, he has NO pro bowl or All pro honors in his career (I'm surprised, he does have some pretty good stats) his 2018 contract was for 72.5, 20M signing bonus 34M GTD at signing.

    Harris has made the Pro Bowl 4 times and All Pro 1st team once and 2nd team twice, he is actually still 29 but will turn 30 in June. Average cap hits of the top 5 CBs is 15.28M, average of the top 5 average annual pay is 14.3M, average guaranteed is ~32M. Is Harris a top 5 CB? Maybe, I believe him to be easily top 10, his pro bowl and all pro honors supports that. IMO, the 30 years old threshold is more for RBs than it is for CBs, many CBs have gone past 30 and played at a high level. A new contract of 4 years would have Harris at 33 in his last season. His injury was relatively minor considering he was probably available to play in the playoffs if the Broncos had made it.
    Harris is one of my all time favorites so I am biased but I think its not a big deal to pay him, at least close to what he is wanting.

  10. #205
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    We made Chris Harris Jr. the highest paid #2 in the game at the time of his contract. Overall, he made top 10 cornerback money at the time of his signing. Every year he has dropped down the list as new contracts are signed and new bars are reached. To say though we gave a home town discount and that we owe him is I think a little misleading. In fact, Elway has gone beyond what most Gm's would do and gave Chris a few million dollars in bonus money that was outside the contract. I rarely ever hear of a GM doing this.

    I believe we've treated Chris fairly. Chris at the end of his contract will have made $45 million plus, enough to take care of his kids, his kids kids, and easily a few more generations. To now ask to be paid the highest paid CB in the game while still having a contract is absurd.

    Also, when Chris signed his fair contract he avoided the risk of a career threatening injury stopping him from getting paid at all. These long term contracts with upfront gaurantees are like insurance against such acts. Something in hind sight a lot of these players forget and seem ungrateful for.

    As much as I hate to use Brady as an example, the below video shows what truly matters if you are a team player. Forward to the 7 minute mark of video:



    Everybody deserves to get paid, but you don't need to be the highest paid player to be respected.

    A fair new contract might be best for both sides, but not if it makes Chris the highest paid CB. I'm fine with letting Chris play out his contract and than possibly franchising him considering he is coming off injury and now 30 years old.

    Chris has always played with a chip on his shoulder since going undrafted and missing pro bowls. That feeling of disrespect has driven him to excel for us in a big way. I wonder what kind of motivation and player he would be if we gave him the ultimate respect...hmmm...just saying.
    Last edited by MarshallMoss; 05-03-2019 at 10:19 AM.
    How did I get so lucky at 8 years old to pick the Broncos as my favourite NFL team and 35 years later have them be the most successful winning franchise since I picked them

  11. #206
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    Next season our cap space is 60 million before extending any players or signing new free agents. If Harris can wait until next year for a new contract, there will be a ton of cap space for him. On top of that, I truly don't believe Flacco is going to be our starter by next season, cutting him saves 20 million with no dead cap hit. That alone was a very good reason to have drafted Drew Lock to take over in the near future. Cutting Flacco essentially gives the cap room needed to extend Harris.
    Superbowl 50 Champions!

  12. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by atwaterandstir View Post
    Harris didn't give us any kind of "hometown discount" unless the contract is fulfilled. This right now is the "hometown discount". Fans give him credit for something he's actually said he will refuse to do.

    What he really got was a nice signing bonus and other structured contract advantages for both Harris then and Denver now.
    Exactly right.

  13. #208
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    Brady is an interesting standard. In his own words "My wife makes a ton of money" should not be underestimated.

    Below is the contract Harris signed. He had a signing bonus of $10m and guaranteed $24M. Neither in the same ballpark of his peers who have signed for more years, more bonus, more guaranteed and more annual. He has never been a top 10 paid CB. One year he was 13th, declining ever since to the low 20's now.

    Nice point about him being the highest paid #2. For a season. And there we multiple tandems that made more then Talib/Harris. But since he was the Broncos #1 CB last year and will be again this year shouldn't he be getting paid at least as much as the older and and arguably less talented (certainly less rated) Jackson? The #2 CB/Safety.

    Harris has outperformed his contract for multiple years. He has established himself in the league as one of the best. He is not the UDFA that should be thankful for the opportunity. He has earned the pay raise with his play on the field. And despite the negative opinions his leadership too. I hope Elway hasn't burned this bridge. Find a way to compromise and pay the man. Hopefully there is still enough good will left that it is less then the $15m market value. But $8M is ridiculous. So is not thinking signing Jackson at $11M wasn't going to be noticed and ruffle some feathers.

    Lastly, those proposing the "screw you" stance of he is under contract and should just shut up and play. Sure Elway can technically play it that way but I sincerely hope he doesn't. That is a negotiation tactic that typically backfires. You either lose the player for pennies on the dollar, endure a contentious year or have to pay him full market price in the end.



    Chris Harris signed a 5 year, $42,500,000 contract with the Denver Broncos, including a $10,000,000 signing bonus, $24,000,000 guaranteed, and an average annual salary of $8,500,000. In 2019, Harris will earn a base salary of $7,800,000 and a workout bonus of $100,000, while carrying a cap hit of $8,766,668 and a dead cap value of $866,668.

    CONTRACT TERMS:5 yr(s) / $42,500,000 SIGNING BONUS$10,000,000 AVERAGE SALARY$8,500,000 GTD AT SIGN:$10,900,000 TOTAL GTD:$24,000,000

  14. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by brianmcfarlane View Post
    The contract for Harris will be about guaranteed money, as usual. Since Harris still has a year left on his current contract, throwing that deal out and just doing a new contract would be the best way to deal with itÖ IMO. For instance the new contract would still have to include the 866,000 of dead money in terms of cap hit, not a big deal there. But Harris' 2019 salary is/was 8.7M, he wants it to be more like 15M. Lets see what a contract for ~15M per year would maybe look likeÖ
    How about 4 years 60M, 30M guaranteed with 20M at signing. Structure it so it is not as much or not much more than the 8.7M he is scheduled to make.
    20M signing bonus would equal 5M per year on the cap.
    Year 1 - 5M + 3.5M salary = 8.5M cap hit + 866,000 from the dead money on the "voided" contract. This would mean no real difference in his cap hit for 2019 but he does get 23.5M within the first 12 months.
    This leaves 51.5M of cap money to be accounted for through the 4 years. If we just divided that by 3 it would be a cap hit of 17.17M per year. But since only half the contract is actually guaranteed it might be beneficial to the team to not just divide evenly?
    Year 2 - 5M + 9M salary = 14M cap hit leaves 37.17M to account for over 4 years
    Year 3 - 5M + 12.17M salary = 17.17M cap hit leaves 20M to account for if still on team in year 4.
    Year 4 - 5M dead money as Harris is cut? Or 15M salary + 5M = 20M cap hit keeping him at 32 years old.
    I don't think 15M is far too high but I do think that they can get him signed for a little less per year.
    If we look at comparable CBs salary/performance 15M is not wildly high either.

    Josh Norman got 15M per year back in 2016. In fact his contract was for 5 years 75M with a cap hit in the first year just 8M but 20M in the 2nd season and 16.8M in the 3rd, this years cap hit is 14.5M at 31 years old. Since being with Washington he has not made a Pro Bowl or All Pro team, he has 1 Pro Bowl and All Pro honors in 2015.

    Janoris Jenkins, 31 years old in October his cap hit is 14.75 this season on a contract that averaged 12.5M, 28.8M guaranteed in 2016, he has 1 pro bowl and 1, 2nd team all pro in 2016 in his career.

    Trumaine Johnson, 29 this season his cap hit is 14.5M this season, he has NO pro bowl or All pro honors in his career (I'm surprised, he does have some pretty good stats) his 2018 contract was for 72.5, 20M signing bonus 34M GTD at signing.

    Harris has made the Pro Bowl 4 times and All Pro 1st team once and 2nd team twice, he is actually still 29 but will turn 30 in June. Average cap hits of the top 5 CBs is 15.28M, average of the top 5 average annual pay is 14.3M, average guaranteed is ~32M. Is Harris a top 5 CB? Maybe, I believe him to be easily top 10, his pro bowl and all pro honors supports that. IMO, the 30 years old threshold is more for RBs than it is for CBs, many CBs have gone past 30 and played at a high level. A new contract of 4 years would have Harris at 33 in his last season. His injury was relatively minor considering he was probably available to play in the playoffs if the Broncos had made it.
    Harris is one of my all time favorites so I am biased but I think its not a big deal to pay him, at least close to what he is wanting.
    Very thorough breakdown and solution for the contract. I donít realistically see Elway setting up a contract with Harris finishing his last season of the contract with a $20 million cap hit. Signing bonuses are cap friendly on the front end but negatively affect the cap in out years. I donít think Elway will pay him $15 million per year simply because Harris demanded that much. Von started with a higher number before ultimately coming back down on his initial demand.
    Last edited by Fantaztic7; 05-03-2019 at 05:23 PM.

  15. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
    Very thorough breakdown and solution for the contract. I don’t realistically see Elway setting up a contract with Harris finishing his last season of the contract with a $20 million cap hit. Signing bonuses are cap friendly on the front end but negatively affect the cap in our years. I don’t think Elway will pay him $15 million per year simply because Harris demanded that much. Von started with a higher number before ultimately coming back down on his initial demand.


    Sure Miller came down. When Elway more then doubled his guaranteed money from initial offer of $38m to $70M.

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