View Poll Results: What do you think?

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  • Is Baph right once again, demonstrating his supreme knowledge of all things football?

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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by TommyBrady12 View Post
    Every time I hear people say Brady can be beaten with pressure up the middle I laugh, as if this were an easy formula. Truth is, Brady can be beaten up the middle with pressure if the Pats' interior offensive line is weak. In the last 2 AFCCGs against Denver, the Broncos d-line exploited our weak center and guards. That's really it. Denver does not hold a magical formula that 31 other teams don't have. It was all about fortunate timing for them.
    2013 Patriots starting interior line
    LG Logan Mankins
    C Ryan Wendell
    RG Dan Connolly
    Following season they win Superbowl with
    LG Dan Connolly
    C Bryan Stork
    RG Ryan Wendell
    So getting rid of First team all pro Logan Mankins was the fix ( not that Denver was better)

    2015 Denverís defense dominated the NFL including the MVP Cam Newton in the SB after they beat up Tommy in the title game , he was rattled in that game.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by TommyBrady12 View Post
    Every time I hear people say Brady can be beaten with pressure up the middle I laugh, as if this were an easy formula. Truth is, Brady can be beaten up the middle with pressure if the Pats' interior offensive line is weak. In the last 2 AFCCGs against Denver, the Broncos d-line exploited our weak center and guards. That's really it. Denver does not hold a magical formula that 31 other teams don't have. It was all about fortunate timing for them.
    never said it was easy, it's not like teams don't know this. but having 3 talented pass rushers to attack from all angles, including throwing derwin james in there from time to time certainly helps.

    in our last meeting, Brady simply manipulated the pocket to avoid the outside pressure like he's so good at doing without much disruption in the middle. it's not like the pats interior is impenetrable.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by 58Miller View Post
    2013 Patriots starting interior line
    LG Logan Mankins
    C Ryan Wendell
    RG Dan Connolly
    Following season they win Superbowl with
    LG Dan Connolly
    C Bryan Stork
    RG Ryan Wendell
    So getting rid of First team all pro Logan Mankins was the fix ( not that Denver was better)

    2015 Denverís defense dominated the NFL including the MVP Cam Newton in the SB after they beat up Tommy in the title game , he was rattled in that game.
    Dan Connelly, Wendell, and Stork were garbage. You just made my point. In 2016, the Denver d-line couldnít do much (0 sacks, 5 QB hits) against Brady with a much better interior offensive line of Andrews, Mason, and Thuney. The so-called ďDenver formulaĒ didnít exactly work in 2016. Sorry bub.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by TommyBrady12 View Post
    Dan Connelly, Wendell, and Stork were garbage. You just made my point. In 2016, the Denver d-line couldnít do much (0 sacks, 5 QB hits) against Brady with a much better interior offensive line of Andrews, Mason, and Thuney. The so-called ďDenver formulaĒ didnít exactly work in 2016. Sorry bub.
    Oh, and just because the won the SB in 2014 does not mean the interior o-line wouldnít have struggled against a team like Denver.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by TommyBrady12 View Post
    Dan Connelly, Wendell, and Stork were garbage. You just made my point. In 2016, the Denver d-line couldnít do much (0 sacks, 5 QB hits) against Brady with a much better interior offensive line of Andrews, Mason, and Thuney. The so-called ďDenver formulaĒ didnít exactly work in 2016. Sorry bub.
    Your point? or weak excuse ? That group of players were good enough to win a Super Bowl in 2014 , but got man handled by Denver in 13 ( with Mankins) and in 15.
    And you bring up 2016 but donít mention Denver was minus their best interior pass rusher Malik Jackson not to mention several other players who no longer played in Denver.
    Try to find a postseason win vs Denver and get back to me 👍

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by 58Miller View Post
    Your point? or weak excuse ? That group of players were good enough to win a Super Bowl in 2014 , but got man handled by Denver in 13 ( with Mankins) and in 15.
    And you bring up 2016 but donít mention Denver was minus their best interior pass rusher Malik Jackson not to mention several other players who no longer played in Denver.
    Try to find a postseason win vs Denver and get back to me 👍
    The point Iím making is no team has the magic formula for beating Brady. If a team can find weaknesses either in the quality of the Patriots interior line or interior blocking scheme, itíll have a big advantage. Brady simply cannot step up and make throws in that instance. Another way to do it is to lock down our receivers, but with our strong running game it may not be the best option anymore.

    Postseason win against Denver? 2011 AFC Divisional. I donít care who Denverís QB was.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by TommyBrady12 View Post
    The point Iím making is no team has the magic formula for beating Brady. If a team can find weaknesses either in the quality of the Patriots interior line or interior blocking scheme, itíll have a big advantage. Brady simply cannot step up and make throws in that instance. Another way to do it is to lock down our receivers, but with our strong running game it may not be the best option anymore.

    Postseason win against Denver? 2011 AFC Divisional. I donít care who Denverís QB was.
    I agree that working the blocking scheme and other areas of the field is how to figure out any team, but it has been said NUMEROUS times by others, (not armchair QB's like us in here), that there is a magic formula to beating Brady...... Hit him.. Hit him A LOT.. This makes him gun shy and throws off his game, (just like any QB). Again, it does have to do with the line and blocking scheme, but even if adjusted, once he has taken numerous hits, he is off..... Footsteps in the back of his head.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by TommyBrady12 View Post
    The point Iím making is no team has the magic formula for beating Brady. If a team can find weaknesses either in the quality of the Patriots interior line or interior blocking scheme, itíll have a big advantage. Brady simply cannot step up and make throws in that instance. Another way to do it is to lock down our receivers, but with our strong running game it may not be the best option anymore.

    Postseason win against Denver? 2011 AFC Divisional. I donít care who Denverís QB was.
    Denver and the Giants have in the postseason.
    I know you canít stand to hear it but itís true. Iím praising New England they are great but Denver has been the one team they have struggled to beat. Hang your hat on 2011 you guys dominated a Tim Tebow lead Broncos squad.
    Denver has won the rest:
    1987 ( thatís right the NFL didnít start in 2001 Elway as a player 11-0 vs the Pats)
    2005
    2013
    2015

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stackhouser View Post
    I agree that working the blocking scheme and other areas of the field is how to figure out any team, but it has been said NUMEROUS times by others, (not armchair QB's like us in here), that there is a magic formula to beating Brady...... Hit him.. Hit him A LOT.. This makes him gun shy and throws off his game, (just like any QB). Again, it does have to do with the line and blocking scheme, but even if adjusted, once he has taken numerous hits, he is off..... Footsteps in the back of his head.
    Ok, but how is this a ďmagic formula? against Brady? If it were, wouldnít teams use it all the time and Brady be terrible in every game? The reason why this by itself is not a magic formula is because it also takes a porous interior patriots o-line to rattle him. Really, if you give Brady 5 good offensive linemen, any defense is going to be in trouble.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by 58Miller View Post
    Denver and the Giants have in the postseason.
    I know you canít stand to hear it but itís true. Iím praising New England they are great but Denver has been the one team they have struggled to beat. Hang your hat on 2011 you guys dominated a Tim Tebow lead Broncos squad.
    Denver has won the rest:
    1987 ( thatís right the NFL didnít start in 2001 Elway as a player 11-0 vs the Pats)
    2005
    2013
    2015
    Youíve done well against us many times in the postseason, but what does it matter if you canít win the super bowl after beating us? Really, 2015 was the only year you beat us and then proceeded to win the super bowl.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by baphamet View Post
    a couple things here. you're right that it is arguable between him and Williams (in terms of inside pass rushing ability) but other than that not really. yeah there are inconsistency concerns (which got better last year) the character concerns all stem from when he was a freshman and haven't been repeated since but yeah it's a concern. but as far as his ability to rush the passer from the interior? nobody was comparable except Williams IMO





    he wins at the point of attack just as much as Williams does, he has a pass rushing grade the same as Williams. but he isn't a complete player like Williams yet and he isn't great against the run yet, which is the biggest reason why he was a low first round prospect(he won't be an every down lineman at first). Williams is a top 3 blue chip player, the chargers did well for themselves at #28 to fill a huge need with a talented inside pass rusher..

    also, Walter football is horrible about keeping up to date. if they or anyone else have him rated that low it's because that profile was made before or early in his senior season, his break out season where he dominated week in and week out.

    the NFL draft network has him rated #29
    pff has him rated #7

    then there is this.....

    https://ftw.usatoday.com/gallery/201...s-in-the-draft



    according to them tillery's average mock around the internet was #29.1 so anyone that had him going in the third round clearly is an old scouting report or is in the minority.






    umm no, they have two completely different skill sets and without perryman our run defense suffers dramatically. brown has been great at times and bad at other times. perryman is always solid but he can never stay healthy.



    luiget was decent at times but he could never seem to generate a consistent pass rush from the inside or at least be disruptive and tillery is his replacement. verrett was difficult to see walk, I hope he can stay healthy in SF because he's a tremendous talent. but he has been a non facto for the most part because he has rarely been healthy.

    3 out of the 4 years he was a charger he never played in more than 4 games, including only playing in 5 games in the last two years. emmanuel was the only LB'er to survive last season (from the original 53) and he was our worst one, losing him is pretty much a non factor as long as the LB'er corps don't get decimated again, they didn't want him back and he retired from the NFL.

    getting our LB'er back healthy has a much bigger impact than any of those guys we lost. I don't see a lot of holes on he chargers defense, it's a very talented defense and got better this off season.

    offense? now that's another story.

    NO im saying that its arguably period , not just with Q W, its a push to even say he is the best interior pass rusher at all in the draft...Good? indeed, a future impact player perhaps, but best in the draft

    even Dremont jones could be a better interior force than Tillery
    http://www.drafttek.com/2019-NFL-Dra...2019-Draft.asp
    http://walterfootball.com/draft2019DT.php
    https://collegefootballnews.com/2019...ge-perspective

    and we got him in the 3rd

    plus you might wanna read why he was red flagged by teams

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by arapaho View Post
    NO im saying that its arguably period , not just with Q W, its a push to even say he is the best interior pass rusher at all in the draft...Good? indeed, a future impact player perhaps, but best in the draft

    even Dremont jones could be a better interior force than Tillery
    http://www.drafttek.com/2019-NFL-Dra...2019-Draft.asp
    http://walterfootball.com/draft2019DT.php
    https://collegefootballnews.com/2019...ge-perspective

    and we got him in the 3rd

    plus you might wanna read why he was red flagged by teams
    nah man, that dude had more pass rushing snaps than an interior lineman in football which inflated his pass rushing stats. he was good rushing the passer yes, not on the level of tillery and williams though. plus he is even worse against the run than tillery, he gets straight owned at the point of attack in the running game. tillery's ceiling is higher overall IMO but both may end up good pass rushers.

    oh and i'm well aware of the red flags from his freshmen season, are you aware of how badly your man gets pushed around when not rushing the passer? your guy is like a poor mans tillery. smaller, weaker, and even worse against the run. but in the third it's a decent pick for you guys, no doubt.
    Last edited by baphamet; 05-09-2019 at 01:53 PM.

  13. #73
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    I have a bold prediction

    With addition of Dreímont Jones (we all saw what he did for Bosa) and the emergence of Shelby Harris, theyíll create enough of an inside push for Von Miller and Bradley Chubb to set a new pass rushing duo record.

    Record currently sits at 39 Doleman & Millard: (MIN 1989)

    If Elway can find another inside rusher through cap cuts this is all very possible!
    Last edited by Sam_Z; 05-09-2019 at 02:06 PM.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam_Z View Post
    I have a bold prediction, with addition of Dre’mont Jones (we all saw what he did for Bosa) and Shelby Harris, they’ll create enough of an inside push for Von Miller and Bradley Chubb to set a new pass rushing duo record.

    Record currently sits at 39 Doleman & Millard: (MIN 1989)

    If Elway can find another inside rusher through cap cuts this is all very possible!
    that's pretty bold indeed. going to be hard to get that many opportunities when you're mediocre stopping the run and your guy isn't going top help you right away in that department, that's for sure.

    care to have a sig bet which team ends up with more sacks? with a healthy bosa and ingram again, with the addition of tillery.......with a sprinkling of derwin james from time to time, i see a 50+ sack total season at minimum for the chargers.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by baphamet View Post
    that's pretty bold indeed. going to be hard to get that many opportunities when you're mediocre stopping the run and your guy isn't going top help you right away in that department, that's for sure.

    care to have a sig bet which team ends up with more sacks? with a healthy bosa and ingram again, with the addition of tillery.......with a sprinkling of derwin james from time to time, i see a 50+ sack total season at minimum for the chargers.
    50+ sacks on the season is pretty bold....... Denver had 52 in 2015 with that beastly defense......

    You may get 1 or maybe 2-3 teams that pass 50 per year now. Not like in the 80's when teams hit 70....
    Last edited by Stackhouser; 05-09-2019 at 02:26 PM.

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