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  1. #16
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    Sep 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by arapaho View Post
    I think your complaining just to complain

    For one check out averages for draftees staying on a team past the first contract

    Second you have this vision that a gm should hit on every pick and elway is the only one that doesn’t ... but you don’t consider players elway drafted who left in FA and are still playing in the league

    Like trevathan, paradise, MJ

    Third you act like the draft, scouting, building the board is entirely on elway and elway alone

    Fourth, to say elway cannot adapt or takes too long to adapt is a joke

    He built one of the greatest offenses ever seen in the game and got destroyed by a great defense in the SB

    He adapted

    Two years later elway took one of the greatest defenses ever seen and won the SB
    That nails it best. Name me a GM today that has even reached one of those milestones let alone both within a 2 year time frame. I can't think of anything that could be more drastic than what Elway accomplished after that SB defeat. Most GM's would say "we got to the Superbowl", convince themselves they are just knocking on the door and stay the course. Elway knew we needed a change in a big way, he made it...and finally got one back for Pat.
    How did I get so lucky at 8 years old to pick the Broncos as my favourite NFL team and 35 years later have them be the most successful winning franchise since I picked them

  2. #17
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    Jul 2013
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    Weíve had back to back horrible seasons
    But the run we since Elway took over in 2011 to our Super Bowl win was worth it.
    Just like when Shanahan took over in 1995 and we won our first back to back Championships was worth the 1999 - 2008 seasons ( mixed bag overall)
    I donít agree with all of Elways decisions but I believe he has done his best and has had to learn along the way. The last two drafts have been much better.

  3. #18
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    Aug 2007
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    Also what I fail to see in the previous comments, is what QBs were available that John should have signed instead. Cousins was the only possible better signing and was Not going to happen so not a miss at all.

    With what was on the market and available to get, we did well.

  4. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
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    5,221
    A GMs job is to assemble the best team possible. It is odd that that guy wants to take away Free Agency. It is Odd that he wants to neglect the CFAs that we sign after the draft. It is odd that he wants to take away the good drafts. It is odd that he wants to completely forget about anything Elway did pre- trevor siemian.

    Getting rid of bad coaches. Getting good coaches. Getting great players. PFM!


    All of this comes from people who have not, will not or know anything about running and owning a business. If they did or had that experience theyd be so much more informed.
    For now....
    1. Reuben Badass LB; 2. Joe Mixon RB; 3. Jake Butt TE; 3B Sid Jones DB; 4. Bucky Hoges TE; 6. Ryan Switzer WR. Trade for Sheldon Richardson.

  5. #20
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    Jul 2005
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    Las Vegas
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    4,141
    Quote Originally Posted by conannilsen View Post
    Also what I fail to see in the previous comments, is what QBs were available that John should have signed instead. Cousins was the only possible better signing and was Not going to happen so not a miss at all.

    With what was on the market and available to get, we did well.
    I would say the two QBs Elway missed in the draft were Russell Wilson and Dak. I wanted us to draft Dak in the second round that year, but honestly was happy when we traded up to get Paxton.

    What will be interesting for me is how Lock compares to Josh Rosen in a couple of years. We could have traded the pick we used on Lock (after trading up) to trade for Rosen, since that pick was a higher second rounder than Miami gave up for Rosen. I'm not a Rosen fan, but I think he's a good value for a second round pick.

  6. #21
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    Sep 2008
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    Elway hasnít been perfect and has had trouble solving QB position since PFM retired which is hard to do to replace top 5 QB of all time. I wasnít fan of Elway drafts prior to 2018 but the last two drafts have been terrific it seems like Elway has figured it out on the job and has gotten much better in that aspect. I havenít noticed any real reaches like in the past draft he was doing which drove me nuts.

  7. #22
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    Aug 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by lvbronx View Post
    I would say the two QBs Elway missed in the draft were Russell Wilson and Dak. I wanted us to draft Dak in the second round that year, but honestly was happy when we traded up to get Paxton.

    What will be interesting for me is how Lock compares to Josh Rosen in a couple of years. We could have traded the pick we used on Lock (after trading up) to trade for Rosen, since that pick was a higher second rounder than Miami gave up for Rosen. I'm not a Rosen fan, but I think he's a good value for a second round pick.
    Absolutely true. I wanted Dak that year too, but only because I thought we would miss out on Lynch. Once we had him, I was happy to have him until we learned about the video game time being as important as football. Up to this offseason too, Flacco was the best option Available to Us. We knew Foles was going with DiFillipo, and Tannehill etc were not better options than Joe.

    If something better were available John would have made different deals than he did. Unless Cousins wins a bowl one day, he would have been am even worse option than Keenum. Hindsight always helps us see the misses, and it's not as though JE was content to stop trying. We appear to be set up better now, and I definitely wont view any QB move as a wrong one, as long as 1 of the newbies works. If not, I still won't call for Elways head, for any of his moves, they were the best he could each off season.

  8. #23
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    Aug 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chillez View Post
    Elway hasnít been perfect and has had trouble solving QB position since PFM retired which is hard to do to replace top 5 QB of all time. I wasnít fan of Elway drafts prior to 2018 but the last two drafts have been terrific it seems like Elway has figured it out on the job and has gotten much better in that aspect. I havenít noticed any real reaches like in the past draft he was doing which drove me nuts.
    At least he did know when to cut his losses too. Since PFM left, the QBs to win Bowls were never an option to be ours, so definitely hard to say we missed out. Almost everyone missed, with all their picks at QB.

  9. #24
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    May 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich_C View Post
    Elway in his drafts (excluding this year and last year) only has the following guys still on our team who HE DRAFTED:

    - G.Bolles, LT(who has got to be on thin ice)
    - D.Booker, RB
    - A.Gotsis, DE
    - D.Wolfe, DE
    - J.Heuerman, TE
    - A. Jonovitch
    - B.Langley (might not be here after PS etc.)
    - C.McGovern
    - W.Parks
    - J.Simmons

    Nearly ALL of them left at least are defensive players. Nearly ALL of our top lineman, WRs and or RBs either came form the two most recent drafts OR other teams. Furthermore our team opted to stick with Trevor S. even after he struggled mightily at the back-end of the 2016 season for the 2017 season. Our QB's as of late have NOT been great:
    - Brock
    - Trevor
    - Zac
    - Paxton
    - Case

    Although my issues with Elway are not just who is left or why we've done things. It is even deeper than that. For example Bolles is not the best OT from his draft class yet we picked him 1st out of all of them. We have seen a thinning of CBs on our roster and seemingly not back-filled any of them....More over if I touch on the Qbs again we are seemingly chasing the same elusive prospect. A big armed tall pocket passer. Which is great....if we had a top OL or at least a truly respectable one. Running the ball is one thing but passing is another. Our line was unable to perform when passing....these are all things which fall on Elway and the others who were evaluating talent.

    If we keep trying to do the same thing over and over again...and it doesn't work then we need to adapt and change....not just players but TYPES of players. IMO - it has taken Elway too long to adapt and even now he is showing that he hasn't fully bought into adapting fully.
    What about von miller

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyousukeneko View Post
    What about von miller
    Malik Jackson, Danny Trevethan.....

    Obviously since the posters is not counting last two seasons he is going to give Xanderís credit instead of Elway.
    .... cherry picking😉

  11. #26
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    Oct 2003
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    The post is also talking about how Elway lets some of the good draft picks good and keeps some of the bad ones. He just didnít have enough time to list all Elways mistakes and wasted picks.🤯

  12. #27
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    Aug 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by underrated29 View Post
    A GMs job is to assemble the best team possible. It is odd that that guy wants to take away Free Agency. It is Odd that he wants to neglect the CFAs that we sign after the draft. It is odd that he wants to take away the good drafts. It is odd that he wants to completely forget about anything Elway did pre- trevor siemian.

    Getting rid of bad coaches. Getting good coaches. Getting great players. PFM!


    All of this comes from people who have not, will not or know anything about running and owning a business. If they did or had that experience theyd be so much more informed.
    Part of running a great business is planning. This includes succession planning. In the NFL this is done by either acquiring players via the draft (CFA's included), trades or FA acquisitions both pre-NFL season start and while in season. I do not think that it is inaccurate OR too harsh to look at the last year (or so) of PFM and really question Elway's overall plan. This includes not only at the most important position on the field (QB) but also at other critical positions on the field or even position groups.

    For example if we were going to move to ANY other QB other than PM then we should have been pre-planning to bolster our offensive line. We didn't. PM even in 2015 was capable of manipulating the defenses to allow for protections to work to his advantage and still allow for a pretty fast release of the football. On top of the OL not being looked at seriously we also allowed our CB's to dwindle in depth rapidly. The same comment could be made for the Safeties as well. Although the drop-off at that position was less steep.

    I do agree with your comment that Elway HAS moved on from coaches and staff (for the most part) quickly. That said he was the one who hired them all too. So it is important to keep that in mind. YES he has typically done the right thing and moved on when needed. YES he was also the one who hired all of those people who he needed to move on from as well. BOTH scenarios are true.

    There are two positions groups which I am concerned about this season:

    1. ILB
    2. Interior DL- NT/DT & DE

    IMO - we truly did our most damage when we were able to get pass rush form the interior. I also think that this pass rush helped a lot when Wade was here in getting some great run stopping plays.


    I don't want to be all negative - As I have said in past posts. I do think we have done a slightly better job in these past few drafts and CFA signings. That shows that Elway has recognized his issues between 2013 and 2017 specifically. This is a good sign.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by conannilsen View Post
    At least he did know when to cut his losses too. Since PFM left, the QBs to win Bowls were never an option to be ours, so definitely hard to say we missed out. Almost everyone missed, with all their picks at QB.
    Yeah thatís only thing I love about Elway he can admit his mistakes when he makes one and moves on he isnít stubborn in his ways like others are.

  14. #29
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    May 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by 58Miller View Post
    Malik Jackson, Danny Trevethan.....

    Obviously since the posters is not counting last two seasons he is going to give Xanderís credit instead of Elway.
    .... cherry picking😉
    Danny And Malik are not on the roster still. Von is.

    Von has had the most sacks in a Broncos uniform then any one. He is also a generational talent who was drafted on always first year. Yet he is not on that list. It makes me instantly throw it out. You can't include a list of he has drafted still on the team and not include von Miller. This list is just trying to paint things in a super negative light. If we don't draft Miller we don't have a super bowl

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by 58Miller View Post
    Malik Jackson, Danny Trevethan.....

    Obviously since the posters is not counting last two seasons he is going to give Xanderís credit instead of Elway.
    .... cherry picking😉
    Quote Originally Posted by Rich_C View Post
    Part of running a great business is planning. This includes succession planning. In the NFL this is done by either acquiring players via the draft (CFA's included), trades or FA acquisitions both pre-NFL season start and while in season. I do not think that it is inaccurate OR too harsh to look at the last year (or so) of PFM and really question Elway's overall plan. This includes not only at the most important position on the field (QB) but also at other critical positions on the field or even position groups.

    For example if we were going to move to ANY other QB other than PM then we should have been pre-planning to bolster our offensive line. We didn't. PM even in 2015 was capable of manipulating the defenses to allow for protections to work to his advantage and still allow for a pretty fast release of the football. On top of the OL not being looked at seriously we also allowed our CB's to dwindle in depth rapidly. The same comment could be made for the Safeties as well. Although the drop-off at that position was less steep.

    I do agree with your comment that Elway HAS moved on from coaches and staff (for the most part) quickly. That said he was the one who hired them all too. So it is important to keep that in mind. YES he has typically done the right thing and moved on when needed. YES he was also the one who hired all of those people who he needed to move on from as well. BOTH scenarios are true.

    There are two positions groups which I am concerned about this season:

    1. ILB
    2. Interior DL- NT/DT & DE

    IMO - we truly did our most damage when we were able to get pass rush form the interior. I also think that this pass rush helped a lot when Wade was here in getting some great run stopping plays.


    I don't want to be all negative - As I have said in past posts. I do think we have done a slightly better job in these past few drafts and CFA signings. That shows that Elway has recognized his issues between 2013 and 2017 specifically. This is a good sign.
    Ever since jmd tore down shanny line and tried to rebuild it. It has been a mess.

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