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Thread: Trent williams

  1. #31
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    When we drafted Bolles the guy was a project. That means it takes time to learn the craft of being a great LT. Let's be honest the coaching staff that brought the guy in was awful and did they really coach. I mean "hope" is not a strategy and in reality that is what we did with Bolles. Put a great athlete out at LT and hope.

    Moving forward the guy is going to finally get coached. His athleticism translates, now it's going to be seen if he has the mind for taking in the learning. If so we have a grade 1 LT.
    Wanting to win does not make you a winner. Refusing to fail does.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by MileHigh Salute View Post
    When we drafted Bolles the guy was a project. That means it takes time to learn the craft of being a great LT. Let's be honest the coaching staff that brought the guy in was awful and did they really coach. I mean "hope" is not a strategy and in reality that is what we did with Bolles. Put a great athlete out at LT and hope.

    Moving forward the guy is going to finally get coached. His athleticism translates, now it's going to be seen if he has the mind for taking in the learning. If so we have a grade 1 LT.
    Bolles can be a great LT in this league, all the ability is there. But he has to be patient against these edge rushers. Poor technique and bad positioning gets him in these situations where he has to hold.

    When the Redskins come to their senses and realize Williams isnít playing for them anymore I hope we make a deal happen for Williams. Not because I think Bolles wonít get better but because I think Bolles would be much better at OG where heís operating in a phone booth vs being on an island. Slide Risner to C and this would be the best oline weíve had in years.

    Wilkinson and McGovern are good depth guys. Wilkinson can hold his own at RT if James gets hurt but struggles with speed and McGovern is inconsistent but flashes as a run blocker. If an injury occurs to Williams, Bolles could kick back outside with Wilkinson or McGovern comes in.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by beastlyskronk View Post
    Bolles can be a great LT in this league, all the ability is there. But he has to be patient against these edge rushers. Poor technique and bad positioning gets him in these situations where he has to hold.

    When the Redskins come to their senses and realize Williams isnít playing for them anymore I hope we make a deal happen for Williams. Not because I think Bolles wonít get better but because I think Bolles would be much better at OG where heís operating in a phone booth vs being on an island. Slide Risner to C and this would be the best oline weíve had in years.

    Wilkinson and McGovern are good depth guys. Wilkinson can hold his own at RT if James gets hurt but struggles with speed and McGovern is inconsistent but flashes as a run blocker. If an injury occurs to Williams, Bolles could kick back outside with Wilkinson or McGovern comes in.
    i would rather try to trade leary and move bolles at RG if we move him to OG. i feel leary is on his way out and has been injuried most his time here.

    oakland raders gm
    latavis murray trade bait

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by beastlyskronk View Post
    Bolles can be a great LT in this league, all the ability is there. But he has to be patient against these edge rushers. Poor technique and bad positioning gets him in these situations where he has to hold.

    When the Redskins come to their senses and realize Williams isn’t playing for them anymore I hope we make a deal happen for Williams. Not because I think Bolles won’t get better but because I think Bolles would be much better at OG where he’s operating in a phone booth vs being on an island. Slide Risner to C and this would be the best oline we’ve had in years.

    Wilkinson and McGovern are good depth guys. Wilkinson can hold his own at RT if James gets hurt but struggles with speed and McGovern is inconsistent but flashes as a run blocker. If an injury occurs to Williams, Bolles could kick back outside with Wilkinson or McGovern comes in.
    While I agree that being at guard would minimize what he needs to do and help him, I don't think he's big enough to hold up inside against defensive tackles. I think he'd struggle badly in there.

    And I'll add to that, Bolles had a great stretch of 8 games last year in the middle of the season, and he looks like his technique and abilities have been cleaned up by Munchak.

    As for Williams, if I'm not mistaken he took close to the same number of penalties as Bolles last year. Graded out similarly and is older, more expensive and injury prone.

    So why do people want to trade for him?

    Here's a link for penalties, Bolles took 10 penalties last year with 2 declined. Williams took 8 penalties with 4 declined. So both got flagged 12 times.

    http://www.nflpenalties.com/position...8&view=players

    Williams finished the year with a PFF grade of 74.0, Bolles grade finished at 70.7. Williams gave up 1 sack, Bolles gave up 2 sacks.

    Trent Williams would have a cap hit of $10.85 million, Bolles cap hit is just over $3 million.

    So here's my question, is Williams really $7 million better than Bolles? Keeping in mind Denver has $2.3 million in cap room, so they can't trade for him anyways.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butler By'Note View Post
    While I agree that being at guard would minimize what he needs to do and help him, I don't think he's big enough to hold up inside against defensive tackles. I think he'd struggle badly in there.

    And I'll add to that, Bolles had a great stretch of 8 games last year in the middle of the season, and he looks like his technique and abilities have been cleaned up by Munchak.

    As for Williams, if I'm not mistaken he took close to the same number of penalties as Bolles last year. Graded out similarly and is older, more expensive and injury prone.

    So why do people want to trade for him?

    Here's a link for penalties, Bolles took 10 penalties last year with 2 declined. Williams took 8 penalties with 4 declined. So both got flagged 12 times.

    http://www.nflpenalties.com/position...8&view=players

    Williams finished the year with a PFF grade of 74.0, Bolles grade finished at 70.7. Williams gave up 1 sack, Bolles gave up 2 sacks.

    Trent Williams would have a cap hit of $10.85 million, Bolles cap hit is just over $3 million.

    So here's my question, is Williams really $7 million better than Bolles? Keeping in mind Denver has $2.3 million in cap room, so they can't trade for him anyways.
    I donít think strength is that big of an issue with Bolles, I think his pure aggression balances it a bit. Plus he could benefit from the C helping him if he does struggle with power players.

    As far as Williams, in the past 3 seasons PFF has him as the 3rd best OT with an 89.1 grade behind Staley and Bahktiari. Last season probably had more to do with the QBs he had to protect.

    Is he 7 million better than Bolles? I say yes. I think Bolles closes the gap at LT this year, but I think the improvement Williams would bring to the offense as a whole would be worth the money. And as far as the cap goes, well there are ways to make it work. Maybe Flacco would like some guaranteed money so you could rework his deal to free up some space now or since Williams definitely wants a new deal so we could backload it a bit to fit him in now or a combo of both.

    If this is truly super bowl or bust I think you have to try and make this move. Flacco needs all the help he can get and a top shelf oline goes a long way even with a mediocre QB. And if Lock has to come in, itíll be a better situation for him. Right now I think our oline will be solid, but Williams could push them into one of the top units if they all stay healthy.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by beastlyskronk View Post
    I don’t think strength is that big of an issue with Bolles, I think his pure aggression balances it a bit. Plus he could benefit from the C helping him if he does struggle with power players.

    As far as Williams, in the past 3 seasons PFF has him as the 3rd best OT with an 89.1 grade behind Staley and Bahktiari. Last season probably had more to do with the QBs he had to protect.

    Is he 7 million better than Bolles? I say yes. I think Bolles closes the gap at LT this year, but I think the improvement Williams would bring to the offense as a whole would be worth the money. And as far as the cap goes, well there are ways to make it work. Maybe Flacco would like some guaranteed money so you could rework his deal to free up some space now or since Williams definitely wants a new deal so we could backload it a bit to fit him in now or a combo of both.

    If this is truly super bowl or bust I think you have to try and make this move. Flacco needs all the help he can get and a top shelf oline goes a long way even with a mediocre QB. And if Lock has to come in, it’ll be a better situation for him. Right now I think our oline will be solid, but Williams could push them into one of the top units if they all stay healthy.
    That's a nice grade over a 3 year average, but when the most recent grade was 74, it becomes reason for concern. Yes there have been some good o-linemen who have played a long time and stayed near the top, but we've got a 31 year old tackle who hasn't played a full season since 2013, who's most recent work was unimpressive. I'm not seeing him worth that money.

    Looking into his PFF grade over the last 3 seasons, it was 92.6 in 2016, 82.1 in 2017 and 74 in 2018. That's on a downhill trajectory. So it gives me concern.

    If Denver were to trade for him, I'd hope for the best. But there are a lot of red flags there, and I think giving him a new contract would fall into the category of paying for what he's done for another team, not what he'll do for you.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butler By'Note View Post
    That's a nice grade over a 3 year average, but when the most recent grade was 74, it becomes reason for concern. Yes there have been some good o-linemen who have played a long time and stayed near the top, but we've got a 31 year old tackle who hasn't played a full season since 2013, who's most recent work was unimpressive. I'm not seeing him worth that money.

    Looking into his PFF grade over the last 3 seasons, it was 92.6 in 2016, 82.1 in 2017 and 74 in 2018. That's on a downhill trajectory. So it gives me concern.

    If Denver were to trade for him, I'd hope for the best. But there are a lot of red flags there, and I think giving him a new contract would fall into the category of paying for what he's done for another team, not what he'll do for you.
    Trent Williams isnít the model for health Iíll give you that but I do think the decline in his grading has more to do with what he had around him.

    2016 - Kirk Cousins, Pierre GarÁon, Desean Jackson, Jordan Reed (healthy good portion of season), Vermont Davis had a good year, and Jamison Crowder. The RBs totaled over 1500 yards and 13 TDs with no one under 4
    Ypc.

    2017 - Kirk Cousins, Jamison Crowder, Ryan Grant, Josh Doctson. While the only RB to average over 4 ypc was Thompson on 64 carries.

    2018 - Alex Smith (22 sacks through 10 games), Josh Johnson, Mark Sanchez, Colt McCoy. The top receivers were Reed with 54 receptions, Doctson with 44 catches, and Thompson with 41 catches, no one else topped 30. Adrian Peterson ran well though and was about all they had on offense.



    While I will agree that his play is starting to decline, I donít think itís as drastic as the PFF grading system is saying it is. The offense lost talent each season since 2016 and failed to replace it with anything really. Reed is the only guy theyíve had the past two seasons that can consistently win one on one matchups and do it quickly but heís been either too hurt to play or playing banged up as he usually does.

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