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  1. #46
    broncolee is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by BroncoStampede View Post
    These lists always seem to be subjective. What if there was a way to objectively put together a top 10?

    Pro Football Reference has a metric called Approximate Value (AV). This metric judges a player's value to their team for a given season. It's kind of like WAR in baseball. The list below shows the players with the highest cumulative scores for all seasons played on the Broncos. This only measures seasons in which these players put on the orange and blue, so this list shows which players added the most value to the Denver Broncos.

    A player who played on the Broncos for a lot of seasons and was consistently good during those seasons will have a higher score. This list favors players who had longevity. Players with short careers like Manning and Davis did not have the chance to put up big career AV numbers as a Bronco.

    1. John Elway (203)
    2. Tom Nalen (130)
    3. Rod Smith (126)
    4. Karl Mecklenburg (113)
    5. Tom Jackson (109)
    5. Louis Wright (109)
    7. Randy Gradishar (107)
    8. Von Miller (106)
    8. Bill Thompson (106)
    10. Dennis Smith (98)

    https://www.pro-football-reference.c...t=&order_by=av
    I like this list better because longevity does matter.
    Negs are Cowardly Acts of Nonsense. I won’t Back Down.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by broncolee View Post
    I like this list better because longevity does matter.
    Absolutely longevity matters when you're talking about all time Broncos.

    However, I thought it might be fun to see who had the most valuable single seasons in Broncos history. Here's the list:

    1. 1974 Otis Armstrong (22)
    1. 1998 Terrell Davis (22)
    3. 1989 Karl Mecklenburg (20)
    3. 2013 Louis Vasquez (20)
    5. 1997 Terrell Davis (19)
    5. 2013 Peyton Manning (19)
    7. 1997 John Elway (18)
    7. 2000 Tom Nalen (18)
    9. 11 players tied with (17): 1993 John Elway, 1997 Darrien Gordon, Von Miller x3, 1997 John Mobley, 2003 Tom Nalen, Rod Smith x2, 1996 Alfred WIlliams and 1979 Louis Wright

    https://www.pro-football-reference.c...t=&order_by=av

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by skeeter01 View Post
    https://thegruelingtruth.com/footbal...bstonejackson/

    Interesting article

    Looking at Wikipedia.....Tom Jackson had only 13 Sacks, but 20 interceptions = 13 years
    Karl Mecklenburg only 5 interceptions, but 80 , yes 80 sacks = 11 years 1200 tackles
    Randy Gradishar only 5 sacks, but also 20 interceptions = 9 years - 2050 tackles though
    There is a flaw with those stats in regards to sacks anyway ... sacks weren't recorded until 1982. So Tom Jackson had 13 sacks in his last 5 seasons, there is no stat for sacks in his first 9 seasons. Same with Gradishar, he had only 2 seasons (1982,83) with recorded sacks, he had 8 seasons before that. Meck's whole career (12 seasons) sacks were recorded.
    The sacks recorded for Jackson and Gradishar were actually in the last 1/4 - 1/3 portions of their careers, they likely had more significance to the defense in those earlier years... that was a great defense.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hadez View Post
    I am cool with this list. NFL network has a habit of over valuing recent play and team accomplishments when saying someone is the "best ever" anything.

    My list would include some older Broncos who did not win a Championship but it would be hard to knock some of those guys off the list and I am just not emotionally up to it today,

    A name I would mention is Simon Fletcher. Still holds NFL record for consecutive games with a sack and one would be hard pressed to find a guy who was more consistent at putting pressure on the QB than him.
    I don't know if it is fair to say that NFL overvalues recent play and team accomplishments.

    Recent accomplishments are fair to value highly because the game is so much more professional now than in the past. While the game is less violent, it requires much more mental aptitude and much more preparation now than ex. when Elway played. A generation earlier they would have beer at half time. The work habits and skill of top 5 QBs now would have made them HOF level players 30 years ago.

    On the team accomplishment side, that should be a tremendous part of the evaluation, as frankly it is not worth much credit to be a "shutdown corner" if the opposing CB is so bad that the opposing QB can choose to throw that way instead. Was Champ Bailey an elite corner against Colts in the 2004 WC game?

    The greatest Broncos Ever - Shouldn't Mr. B. be on the list?
    R.I.P.
    Last edited by BroncoFanDK; 06-18-2019 at 09:51 AM.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by BroncoFanDK View Post
    I don't know if it is fair to say that NFL overvalues recent play and team accomplishments.

    Recent accomplishments are fair to value highly because the game is so much more professional now than in the past. While the game is less violent, it requires much more mental aptitude and much more preparation now than ex. when Elway played. A generation earlier they would have beer at half time. The work habits and skill of top 5 QBs now would have made them HOF level players 30 years ago.

    On the team accomplishment side, that should be a tremendous part of the evaluation, as frankly it is not worth much credit to be a "shutdown corner" if the opposing CB is so bad that the opposing QB can choose to throw that way instead. Was Champ Bailey an elite corner against Colts in the 2003 WC game?

    The greatest Broncos Ever - Shouldn't Mr. B. be on the list?
    R.I.P.
    Champ was still in Washington in 2003.

  6. #51
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    Here's a list of the top 10 Broncos of all time based on Pro Bowl Selections as a Bronco.

    1. John Elway (9)
    2. Steve Atwater (8)
    2. Champ Bailey (8)
    4. Randy Gradishar (7)
    4. Von Miller (7)
    4. Shannon Sharpe (7)
    7. Karl Mecklenburg (6)
    7. Dennis Smith (6)
    9. Goose Gonsoulin (5)
    10. Floyd Little (5)
    10. Tom Nalen (5)
    10. Al Wilson (5)
    10. Louis Wright (5)

    https://www.pro-football-reference.c...r_by=pro_bowls
    Last edited by BroncoStampede; 06-17-2019 at 11:26 AM. Reason: added link

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by BroncoStampede View Post
    Here's a list of the top 10 Broncos of all time based on Pro Bowl Selections as a Bronco.

    1. John Elway (9)
    2. Steve Atwater (8)
    2. Champ Bailey (8)
    4. Randy Gradishar (7)
    4. Von Miller (7)
    4. Shannon Sharpe (7)
    7. Karl Mecklenburg (6)
    7. Dennis Smith (6)
    9. Goose Gonsoulin (5)
    10. Floyd Little (5)
    10. Tom Nalen (5)
    10. Al Wilson (5)
    10. Louis Wright (5)

    https://www.pro-football-reference.c...r_by=pro_bowls
    Now THIS is a list I can get behind.

    I don't know what formula Pro Football Reference is using, but I'm really struggling with the idea that Darrien Gordon was ever more important to the Broncos than Champ at his best. Maybe it was because he returned kicks or something, but anybody can return kicks. Vance Joseph proved that.

  8. #53
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    Great List!! Still a Shame Randy Gradishar is not in the HOF.....

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spice 1 View Post
    Now THIS is a list I can get behind.

    I don't know what formula Pro Football Reference is using, but I'm really struggling with the idea that Darrien Gordon was ever more important to the Broncos than Champ at his best. Maybe it was because he returned kicks or something, but anybody can return kicks. Vance Joseph proved that.
    Yea that was surprising. It was also surprising to see 1974 Otis Anderson tied with 1998 Terrell Davis for #1. And 2013 Louis Vasquez was more valuable than 2013 Peyton Manning! But, they came up with a metric and those were the results. It's interesting if nothing else.

  10. #55
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    I forgot to mention that 1989 Karl Mecklenburg was an absolute beast...

  11. #56
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    Elway of course should be #1 hands down!
    Ready for July There!

  12. #57
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    This list is the top 10 single seasons for a QB in Broncos history by AV:

    1. 2013 Peyton Manning (19)*
    2. 1997 John Elway (18)
    3. 1993 John Elway (17)
    4. 2014 Peyton Manning (16)
    5. 2008 Jay Cutler (15)
    5. 1995 John Elway (15)
    5. 1996 John Elway (15)
    5. 2012 Peyton Manning (15)
    5. 2005 Jake Plummer (15)
    10. 1986 John Elway (14)
    10. 1987 John Elway (14)*
    10. 1998 John Elway (14)
    10. 2004 Jake Plummer (14)

    * - League MVP

    https://www.pro-football-reference.c...t=&order_by=av

  13. #58
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    My list, 1-10:
    Elway
    Gradishar
    TD
    Sharpe
    Nalen
    Rod Smith
    Von
    Mecklenburg
    Atwater
    Louis Wright

    I would just add that there is a serious underappreciation of Tom Nalen nationally and in Broncos Country. When our RBs tore it up year after year, fans praised TD, Mike Anderson, Olandis Gary, Clinton Portis. Tom Nalen was the only constant. Had our O-line talked to the media, he would be a four time All Pro (instead of 2x) and in the Hall of Fame by now.

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by BroncoStampede View Post
    This list is the top 10 single seasons for a QB in Broncos history by AV:

    1. 2013 Peyton Manning (19)*
    2. 1997 John Elway (18)
    3. 1993 John Elway (17)
    4. 2014 Peyton Manning (16)
    5. 2008 Jay Cutler (15)
    5. 1995 John Elway (15)
    5. 1996 John Elway (15)
    5. 2012 Peyton Manning (15)
    5. 2005 Jake Plummer (15)
    10. 1986 John Elway (14)
    10. 1987 John Elway (14)*
    10. 1998 John Elway (14)
    10. 2004 Jake Plummer (14)

    * - League MVP

    https://www.pro-football-reference.c...t=&order_by=av
    Don’t show this list to the people still mad and don’t get why Shanny replaced Plummer with Cutler.

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by DenverBlood View Post
    Don’t show this list to the people still mad and don’t get why Shanny replaced Plummer with Cutler.
    Yes, isn't it amazing how Jay gets elevated when you use stats where a pick six and and a punt counts the same?
    Isn't it amazing that Jay was so fantastic that he was better than the QBs responsible for 18 of our 22 playoff seasons, and he is far and away the most "successful" looser QB we have ever had!

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