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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by broncolee View Post
    If Plummer has Haloti Ngata on defense instead of Cutler as his usurper, would that be true?

    If the Broncos had played smart defense against the Steelers, would the Broncos have won that AFCCG? Let’s not forget, the way to beat the Steelers that season was to make Ben read the defense, but the Broncos decided to blitz him.
    Quote Originally Posted by Al Wilson 4 Mayor View Post
    The biggest mistake Shanny made in that game was leaving our outmatched LT one on one with Joey Porter.
    We will never truly know how good the Plummer teams could have been with better coaching and personnel.

    Shanny had lost his way...
    [

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taos_Broncomaniac View Post
    We will never truly know how good the Plummer teams could have been with better coaching and personnel.

    Shanny had lost his way...
    Plummer was Plummer's biggest obstacle in becoming a greater QB...not Shanny.

    Shanny was holding back the defense. Even tho I say that hope people realize the top defenses Shanny did put on the field statistically when Plummer was playing. Our defense was putting up historical numbers when Plummer was benched and we were winning because of Defense when Plummer was benched because Plummer was playing the worst I have seen in Denver at that time and maybe the worst of his career. IMO the AFC Champ game broke Plummer mentally.

    Cutler as bad as he was...and as a rookie...has better stats that year then Plummer.
    Last edited by Hadez; 06-25-2019 at 09:06 PM.
    Vic Fangio "Von Miller can play better than he has ever played in his career"
    Preventing Death by Inches

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by broncolee View Post
    If Plummer has Haloti Ngata on defense instead of Cutler as his usurper, would that be true?

    If the Broncos had played smart defense against the Steelers, would the Broncos have won that AFCCG? Let’s not forget, the way to beat the Steelers that season was to make Ben read the defense, but the Broncos decided to blitz him.
    Plummer turnovers in the AFC Champ game led to short field Steeler points. Those points were the difference in the game. That AFC Champ game broke Plummer mentally imo.

    Plummer played his worst games in Denver the next year. Maybe the worst games of his career.

    Plummer was not mentally built to be a great Qb in the NFL and that is true for almost everyone.

    Cutler was no peach either. This is not me trying to defend Cutler...this is me just being real about what kind of QB Plummer was. I do not wear Orange Colored glasses when looking at Plummer's career but I do realize some fans on these boards do.
    Vic Fangio "Von Miller can play better than he has ever played in his career"
    Preventing Death by Inches

  4. #79
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    https://www.9news.com/article/sports...d-a1ac1423d8d7

    What do you guys and gals think of the top 100 list?

  5. #80
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    I'm only 33. I didn't know anything about Randy Gradishar, but I kept seeing his name show up in these "greatest broncos of all time" lists. So, I looked him up. Dear God... not only should he be in the HOF, but he should be in the discussion of greatest ILB of ALL TIME.

    He has pretty much the same number of tackles as Ray Lewis... in 83 less games. He averaged 14 tackles a game to Ray's 9. He was averaging over 200 tackles a year in his 10 seasons. That is one of the craziest things I've ever heard of. If i saw these types of stats in a non-Bronco, I'd feel the same way. I understand that it was a different era where it was run first, run always, but DANG!

    In all seriousness... how is there even a debate on whether or not this guy should be in the HoF? Heck, he should have been an easy first ballot hall of famer. I don't get it?

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joshua2585 View Post
    I'm only 33. I didn't know anything about Randy Gradishar, but I kept seeing his name show up in these "greatest broncos of all time" lists. So, I looked him up. Dear God... not only should he be in the HOF, but he should be in the discussion of greatest ILB of ALL TIME.

    He has pretty much the same number of tackles as Ray Lewis... in 83 less games. He averaged 14 tackles a game to Ray's 9. He was averaging over 200 tackles a year in his 10 seasons. That is one of the craziest things I've ever heard of. If i saw these types of stats in a non-Bronco, I'd feel the same way. I understand that it was a different era where it was run first, run always, but DANG!

    In all seriousness... how is there even a debate on whether or not this guy should be in the HoF? Heck, he should have been an easy first ballot hall of famer. I don't get it?
    Tackles weren’t an official stat during his career and those numbers often came from the teams the players were on. So there was a perception from many of the HoF voters that his numbers were inflated by the team.

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joshua2585 View Post
    I'm only 33. I didn't know anything about Randy Gradishar, but I kept seeing his name show up in these "greatest broncos of all time" lists. So, I looked him up. Dear God... not only should he be in the HOF, but he should be in the discussion of greatest ILB of ALL TIME.
    I didn't become a Bronco fan until 1984 (began as a Vikings fan as a kid in '69 until they broke my heart and moved from the awesome snow, mud, rain and ice of Metropolitan stadium into that godawful carpet lined abomination they called the metrodome in '82). My point is even though I was a huge NFL fan during the years Gradishar played, he never got much press that I can remember. I lived in the SF bay area and the papers primarily focused on the successful Raiders rather than the usually pathetic 9ers. Even though he faced the Raiders twice a year, I don't even remember a mention of Gradishar, only the collective 'Orange Crush'. Shoot...I knew the names of more of the early 70's Dolphins "No Name Defense" than I ever even heard from the "Orange Crush". As unfair as it is, it doesn't surprise me he's not in the HoF, any modern voting sportswriters were likely kids during his playing days and like me rarely ever heard him mentioned.

    Now, if I had to pick a single Bronco who's been the most criminally ignored by the HoF it's without a doubt the Smiling Assassin. Steve Atwater should have been a first ballot inductee easily...especially since his playing days were in an era when the NFL was so highly publicized. Is there anyone voting who never saw the famous Christian Okoye hit? Or Atwater flying all over the field beating the living tar out of the Packer receivers in SB XXXII?
    "There is no plan B. Plan A is to win the Super Bowl" - John Elway
    PLAN A ACCOMPLISHED 2/7/16!!!

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joshua2585 View Post
    I'm only 33. I didn't know anything about Randy Gradishar, but I kept seeing his name show up in these "greatest broncos of all time" lists. So, I looked him up. Dear God... not only should he be in the HOF, but he should be in the discussion of greatest ILB of ALL TIME.

    He has pretty much the same number of tackles as Ray Lewis... in 83 less games. He averaged 14 tackles a game to Ray's 9. He was averaging over 200 tackles a year in his 10 seasons. That is one of the craziest things I've ever heard of. If i saw these types of stats in a non-Bronco, I'd feel the same way. I understand that it was a different era where it was run first, run always, but DANG!

    In all seriousness... how is there even a debate on whether or not this guy should be in the HoF? Heck, he should have been an easy first ballot hall of famer. I don't get it?
    You just got my vote for post of the day! I wish you could have watched The Broncos' D back then, with the amazing Gradishar up the middle!!!


  9. #84
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    Elway of course deserves to be at the top for good reason and measure!
    Ready for July There!

  10. #85
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    We been real lucky in Denver to see a large amount of highly skilled players who were focused on perfecting their craft.

    Elway gets a lot of attention for how good we were in the 80s and 90s but there is a long list of Broncos who helped get us to all the playoffs and Super Bowls.

    The Broncos in the 70s had some success while having to get past some really tough competition.

    We made the Conf Champ game in every decade since the 70s....that does not happen without a lot of good players and coaches.
    Vic Fangio "Von Miller can play better than he has ever played in his career"
    Preventing Death by Inches

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by beastlyskronk View Post
    Tackles weren’t an official stat during his career and those numbers often came from the teams the players were on. So there was a perception from many of the HoF voters that his numbers were inflated by the team.
    So- you're saying his 200 tackles a year stat is fabricated? I know I saw those numbers and it didn't seem humanly possible. Can they not go back and rewatch every game and recount them in current fashion?

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joshua2585 View Post
    I'm only 33. I didn't know anything about Randy Gradishar, but I kept seeing his name show up in these "greatest broncos of all time" lists. So, I looked him up. Dear God... not only should he be in the HOF, but he should be in the discussion of greatest ILB of ALL TIME.

    He has pretty much the same number of tackles as Ray Lewis... in 83 less games. He averaged 14 tackles a game to Ray's 9. He was averaging over 200 tackles a year in his 10 seasons. That is one of the craziest things I've ever heard of. If i saw these types of stats in a non-Bronco, I'd feel the same way. I understand that it was a different era where it was run first, run always, but DANG!

    In all seriousness... how is there even a debate on whether or not this guy should be in the HoF? Heck, he should have been an easy first ballot hall of famer. I don't get it?
    Great post. I have been saying this for years Randy Gradishar was awesome back in the day. Walter Payton claimed no one ever hit him harder than Randy Gradishar.

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joshua2585 View Post
    So- you're saying his 200 tackles a year stat is fabricated? I know I saw those numbers and it didn't seem humanly possible. Can they not go back and rewatch every game and recount them in current fashion?
    I’m saying that’s probably what the HoF voters believe. Never saw him play live but even if they did give him, let’s say 25% more, 1500 over 10 seasons is still worthy. Only started 3 games his rookie year, first 4 seasons were still 14 games, his 9th season he only played in 9 games. I think he averaged 14 tackles a game where guys like Urlacher, Lewis, Mike Singletary were averaging about 8 a game.

    He just wasn’t a flashy loudmouth guy that got the attention of the media so it’s easy for the media to cast doubt on his statistics despite so many HoF players and great coaches saying he was one of the best ever. If Zach Thomas gets in, they will have to put Gradishar in. Thomas benefitted from the most egregious counts of assisted tackles that I’ve ever seen

  14. #89
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    As mentioned in the linked article, the 2020 class is tentatively set for 20 members — five modern-era, 10 seniors, three contributors and two coaches. This could open the door to get Gradishar inducted. Although some memories have faded, I remember he was a great player. He’s definitely been overlooked.

    https://www.milehighreport.com/2019/...r-hall-of-fame

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