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  1. #346
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    Quote Originally Posted by samparnell View Post
    Fangio nixed the rookie haircuts because it's physical hazing. He didn't prohibit other forms of rookie subordination which could be considered "initiation". From my own experience, hazing is idiotic and potentially dangerous; don't like it, won't condone it and will prevent it, if possible. IMO it's the player equivalent of coaches yelling, cussing and humiliating players. None of these things has anything to do with coaching and playing the game.
    I agree that there are other ways of doing it than haircuts or things of that nature, but I have to say that I disagree with about there being no positive benefits. I'm applying a different walk of life and perspective to it, though. You coached the game of football and I didn't, so I'll concede to your views on the matter.

    Everybody seems to be going away from rookie initiation these days, so maybe I'm actually the one who's old fashioned on this one.

  2. #347
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spice 1 View Post
    Here's what bothers me about that. We've got like 1 and a half guys on offense, that I know of, who are vocal or fiery veterans. ES is the main one, and we've got 2nd year players throwing water bottles or whatever at them in practice. I don't care if Sutton had a legitimate gripe, it's not a good look to have one of your few veteran leaders getting undermined in front of everybody. Even if it was dealt with after the fact, somebody should've locked Sutton on immediately. This is whole point of rookie "hazing". Call it what you want. Call it initiation or rite of passage, but you have to knock young guys down a peg to instill compliance to leadership. Otherwise, you'll have a bunch of inexperienced guys running around making mistakes on everyone else's time. The staff, veterans, and fans don't want to sit around and suck while the guys in their early 20's figure it out.

    I would be more than happy to be wrong about the vocal leadership we have on offense. If there's a bad ass on the offensive line, or even Flacco who lights a fire under everyone's backsides, that'd be a welcome sight for me. From what I've seen, that's not exactly the type of leader Flacco is. I'm not behind the scenes, so maybe there are guys like that. I'd just feel way better if I actually saw it, or had some results to confirm it.

    It's preseason and there isn't much to talk about, so hopefully we're reading too much into it. I'm just speaking from experience.
    In April, Sutton said, "The No. 1 role, you can't go into a game and have one or two catches, You have to go into a game and be that guy. I accept that role."

    I suspect his comments didnít sit well with Sanders and may have predicated the bad blood. Itís unfortunate that Sanders was too immature to handle himself as a veteran. He should know heís proven himself without getting into a fight in practice. I heard they congratulated each other on good catches the other day - maybe theyíve moved forward.

  3. #348
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
    In April, Sutton said, "The No. 1 role, you can't go into a game and have one or two catches, You have to go into a game and be that guy. I accept that role."

    I suspect his comments didn’t sit well with Sanders and may have predicated the bad blood. It’s unfortunate that Sanders was too immature to handle himself as a veteran. He should know he’s proven himself without getting into a fight in practice. I heard they congratulated each other on good catches the other day - maybe they’ve moved forward.
    Yeah, if that's what started the beef, then I both get it and acknowledge that it's silly on ES's part.

  4. #349
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
    I suppose the 49ers knowing the offense played a role. It would be nice to see if Scangarello can mix it up, but maybe he doesnít want to show too much.

    With respect to discipline I havenít seen anything change vs the game last two years. Sanders and Sutton fought and I donít recall any consequence (maybe there was and it wasnít reported). The offense continues with sloppy practices but I donít hear much urgency to fix it. When your starting QB brushes off the drops it tells me thereís no leadership. Business as usual like Vance Joseph and Bill Musgrave.

    I hope Iím wrong. Maybe the sloppiness is part of the process. It might say more anout a lack of talent at some positions. The next two games should give us an indicator of whatís to come.
    Quote Originally Posted by samparnell View Post
    Just because we haven't heard anything reported, or announcements from coaches concerning discipline doesn't mean it hasn't happened.
    As noted in my post.

  5. #350
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spice 1 View Post
    Yeah, if that's what started the beef, then I both get it and acknowledge that it's silly on ES's part.
    Fortunately neither of them were injured - not hard to break a finger/knuckle trying to punch a helmet.

  6. #351
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
    Fortunately neither of them were injured - not hard to break a finger/knuckle trying to punch a helmet.
    I always see Prime and Rison when the helmet fist fight breaks out. The first guy who's going to break his hand is going to be the guy who actually knows how to throw a punch. lol.

  7. #352
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    If Leary lines up with first team, then steps out and is replaced by Barclay, IDK if that's what would happen in a regular season game. O-Line coaches' rule-of-thumb is start your best five guys and shuffle them to their best spots. If one has to step out, bring in number six and reshuffle, if necessary.

    Sounds to me like Wilkinson is number six. Seven O-Linemen are active on game day; a G/C or C/G and a Swing Tackle. Seems like Wilkinson may be the Swing Tackle. It remains to be seen who will provide immediate depth at C. It could be Dalton. It won't be Barclay who isn't versatile. IDK if Barclay will even make the roster, but if he does I'd be surprised to see him active on game day.

    Wilkinson had seven starts at RG last year. If Leary started a regular season game, but went out, I'd expect Wilkinson to go in at RG.

    I hope Munchak and Kuper had a meaningful debrief with the first team O-Line after practice yesterday. IMO Scangarello should script some angle blocked run plays from 21 personnel formations so that the O-Line can fire out and smack the Niners' Front Seven right in the mouth about six plays in a row. Time to hit somebody.
    "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

  8. #353
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spice 1 View Post
    I always see Prime and Rison when the helmet fist fight breaks out. The first guy who's going to break his hand is going to be the guy who actually knows how to throw a punch. lol.
    Agree. Where I grew up, if you were caught scrapping in the hall at school you were taken to a boxing ring in the auxiliary gym, laced up the gloves and had three rounds with the other kid (unless one was knocked out early). It was better than going to the next class!

  9. #354
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    Quote Originally Posted by samparnell View Post
    Fangio nixed the rookie haircuts because it's physical hazing. He didn't prohibit other forms of rookie subordination which could be considered "initiation". From my own experience, hazing is idiotic and potentially dangerous; don't like it, won't condone it and will prevent it, if possible. IMO it's the player equivalent of coaches yelling, cussing and humiliating players. None of these things has anything to do with coaching and playing the game.
    Well said Sam.

  10. #355
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
    Agree. Where I grew up, if you were caught scrapping in the hall at school you were taken to a boxing ring in the auxiliary gym, laced up the gloves and had three rounds with the other kid (unless one was knocked out early). It was better than going to the next class!
    You can bridge a lot of gaps that way, and avert a lot of problems.

    Hopefully Sanders and Sutton have aired their grievances, and moved on.

  11. #356
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spice 1 View Post
    You can bridge a lot of gaps that way, and avert a lot of problems.

    Hopefully Sanders and Sutton have aired their grievances, and moved on.
    Agree.....

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