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  1. #1
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    Kyler Murray...franchise QB.....

    GLENDALE, Ariz. (AP) — Kyler Murray took off around the left end of the line, made a quick cut and raced through the secondary for a big gain, drawing a rising roar from the fans who watched it unfold right below them.

    OK, so it was one run during a training camp practice. Murray wasn’t allowed to be hit, wasn’t even wearing pads.

    Even so, the burst and bolt was what the Cardinals and their fans had hoped to see from the No. 1 overall pick in this year’s draft.

    The next step is doing it against NFL teams intent on squashing Arizona’s diminutive quarterback.

    After an offseason of seeing what Murray can do firsthand, Cardinals players have no doubt the show he put on at Oklahoma will continue in the pros.

    “He’s been really impressive, on and off the field,” Cardinals receiver Trent Sherfield said Saturday before Arizona’s first practice in pads.

    The Cardinals were so enamored of Murray’s skills, they used the top pick in this year’s draft to take the reigning Heisman Trophy winner despite using the No. 10 overall pick last year on Josh Rosen, who was traded to Miami.

    They saw Murray as a generational talent, a game-changing quarterback who would be a perfect fit for new coach Kliff Kingsbury’s offensive experiment in the desert.

    Other teams have implemented versions of the Air Raid-style offenses that have been so successful at the college level, but none has gone all-in with it as Kingsbury is attempting.

    Murray will be the key to making it work.

    Though undersized for an NFL quarterback at 5-foot-10, he’s a pinpoint passer who can avoid long-armed defensive lineman by changing arm angles, similar to Kansas City’s Patrick Mahomes. He’s an adept passer on the run and can use his agility to escape oncoming pass rushers, a la Seattle’s Russell Wilson.

    Murray also has the speed to turn an innocuous scramble into a game-changing touchdown run, as Michael Vick did in his prime.

    Whether Murray can live up to those lofty comparisons remains to be seen. He hasn’t been hit in practice, much less in a game, nor has he seen the speed and ferocity of a live NFL game.

    He does have confidence. Lots of it.

    Not the hollow, chest-puffing, look-at-me type of confidence. The type of confidence that comes with being successful at every level he’s played; winning a Heisman Trophy after one year as a starter; becoming the first person drafted in the top 10 of the NFL and Major League Baseball drafts.

    “When you look in his eyes, there’s nothing timid about him,” Cardinals veteran receiver Larry Fitzgerald said. “He looks confident, he looks ready to go and that’s a great sign for a young quarterback.”

    Murray also has a pair of advantages over other would-be rookie starting quarterbacks.

    The first is Kingsbury’s system.

    Though new to the NFL, Murray knows it inside out. Oklahoma ran a similar offensive system as Kingsbury did at Texas Tech and Murray did pretty well with it, racking up more than 5,300 combined yards and 53 touchdowns.

    Murray also knows the terminology, putting him ahead of Arizona’s veteran players, at least during the offseason.

    “It’s helped me a lot, coming in and being more comfortable,” Murray said. “If I was to go anywhere else, play for another guy, have to learn a whole new system, a whole new offense, it would be a lot hard, obviously. For me coming into this system, Day 1 and through rookie minicamp, I’m probably more comfortable than any other quarterback out there.”

    Murray also enters the season as Arizona’s undisputed starter. No quarterback battle, no waiting his turn behind a veteran.

    The downside could be immediately throwing a rookie into the NFL fire, but the upside is he has no distractions during camp, no questions about his role. He’s also had the support of his teammates from the day he first stepped on the practice field, further bolstering his confidence.

    “Everybody in this locker room knows he’s going to be here,” Fitzgerald said. “First pick overall, guys understand, it’s going to be his show. You want to be a part of it? Get on board.”
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  2. #2
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    So he scrambled during no pad practice? With no threat of a tackle?

    Lynch did that too....

    Not saying he isn’t, but nothing in that fluff piece says he is already anointed a franchise player...or even better than Rosen was at this point.

    From July 31 2018

    Rosen is different. He’s the franchise quarterback the team has been searching for since Matt Leinart proved to be a bust. Given Bradford’s unreliable left knee and Rosen’s talents and pre-draft credentials as the most “NFL-ready” quarterback in this year’s draft class, it only makes sense to put the rookie in an environment where he can get a leg up sooner rather than later.


    That’s why the former UCLA standout has his own locker with the vets and no other rookie does.

    “The biggest thing there is we’re really trying to get him around Sam as much as possible,” Wilks said Monday. “The communication there is great and the relationship they’ve built over the past couple of months has been good, so anytime you can be able to get Josh around Sam so he can absorb some of that experience, that’s the reason why we did it.”

    After three days on the job, Rosen's reviews have been mostly favorable. The arm strength and accuracy stand out immediately. The footwork and mobility are off the charts. Some of his decision-making early on has been spotty, but that’s to be expected as Rosen continues to digest the playbook and transfer paper to play on the field.


    It’s all camp hype...
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  3. #3
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    Murray is going to be a massive bust. Partly because he's not that good (NFL QB talent wise) and partly because the Cardinals coaching and GM decisions have them looking at a very real chance of an 0-16 season this year. They'll probably somehow win a game or two, but they'll be starting 2020 with a brand new GM and a brand new coaching staff, and with a new regime and a first overall pick, there's a real chance they take a first round QB for a third consecutive year.

  4. #4
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    Time will tell.....

  5. #5
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    I was curious how he and the other 1st rounders were doing. Their local media will likely not say many negative things at this point. I would be very surprised if any teammates actually said anything that was not positive, still very early. Will be interesting to see how things are going for all the 1st rounders after 4-8 games into the season. I have to admit, I am not rooting for them.

  6. #6
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    Every year everybody is wrong about at least one of the rookies. The way I see things going, at some point this year people will realize that Murray is neither Mike Vick or Russell Wilson. I still think he has a chance to be a very good NFL quarterback, though. My fingers are crossed with Lock, but ideally, he doesn't have to come in this season like Cutler did. Cutler's rookie year was brutal. Haskins may not win the starting job, but I can see him coming in at some point this season and doing some things. If Daniel Jones has to play, I think he'll struggle, but that's not on him. It's on the Giants at this point.

    The crazy scenario for me would be if Newton predictably got hurt again, and Grier became the starter. That situation has potential.

    I know I'm going to be dead wrong about at least one of these, but I highly doubt I'm wrong about Murray. Mike Vick and Russell Wilson are one offs. I don't think I'll ever see an athlete like Vick play quarterback again.

  7. #7
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    Just to let you all know, I changed the title. It was that or moving the thread to Smack.
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    #LupusAwareness

    Adopted Bronco: Derek Wolfe --- I adopted: Everyone!

    "a semicolon is used when an author could've chosen to end their sentence, but chose not to. The author is you and the sentence is your life ; "

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butler By'Note View Post
    Murray is going to be a massive bust. Partly because he's not that good (NFL QB talent wise) and partly because the Cardinals coaching and GM decisions have them looking at a very real chance of an 0-16 season this year. They'll probably somehow win a game or two, but they'll be starting 2020 with a brand new GM and a brand new coaching staff, and with a new regime and a first overall pick, there's a real chance they take a first round QB for a third consecutive year.
    I agree with most of this. I think Murray has bust written all over him. I think the coaching and GM decisions are very questionable. I think they gave away a qb that could've been their future along with a bunch of draft picks they could've picked up by trading out of the number one spot and used for their rebuild. I think they did all this to pick up a qb who is not going to very good in the NFL. I think they could've added a lot of talent to a rebuilding team and taken a leap forward but instead this will prove to be a huge leap backward and it will have set them back years.
    All that is gold does not glitter,
    Not all those who wander are lost;
    The old that is strong does not wither
    Deep roots are not reached by the frost.

    --J.R.R. Tolkien

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by FL BRONCO View Post
    I agree with most of this. I think Murray has bust written all over him. I think the coaching and GM decisions are very questionable. I think they gave away a qb that could've been their future along with a bunch of draft picks they could've picked up by trading out of the number one spot and used for their rebuild. I think they did all this to pick up a qb who is not going to very good in the NFL. I think they could've added a lot of talent to a rebuilding team and taken a leap forward but instead this will prove to be a huge leap backward and it will have set them back years.
    I feel a little bad for Murray because he's 100% the product of media hype. But his actual resume of work doesn't matchup to him being the first overall pick, nor for him to be ready to start in the NFL. He should probably sit and learn for a year and then be ready, or closer to it, for 2020, but instead you've now got a QB not close to ready who's going to be saddled with a massive amount of hype and have to play from the first snap. And the only chance his team has of winning games is if he can drag them to the win.

  10. #10
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    I think Murray and the Cardinals will surprise some this year. I do have worries about him holding onto the ball and playing in poor weather with his small as well as adjusting to the speed of defenses especially with his height disadvantage.

    However he is playing in a system he’s very familiar with so this isn’t a Lamar Jackson situation where he’s struggling just to get the plays called. Also the read option will pose problems as David Johnson and Murray are probably going to be the most explosive duo we’ve seen run it in the NFL yet and if Johnson returns to the form where he looked like the best RB in the league it’ll make it that much harder on defenses.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by beastlyskronk View Post
    I think Murray and the Cardinals will surprise some this year. I do have worries about him holding onto the ball and playing in poor weather with his small as well as adjusting to the speed of defenses especially with his height disadvantage.

    However he is playing in a system he’s very familiar with so this isn’t a Lamar Jackson situation where he’s struggling just to get the plays called. Also the read option will pose problems as David Johnson and Murray are probably going to be the most explosive duo we’ve seen run it in the NFL yet and if Johnson returns to the form where he looked like the best RB in the league it’ll make it that much harder on defenses.
    If I were an opposing defense I would love for him to run the read option, because I would tell my End to smash him every play. Just go crush the QB. Then I'd play read technique with my Backer, tell the end to crash, backer is reading the QB and has contain, once he sees the zone read then he needs to go downhill immediately. Murray is reading the end, he pulls, the LB is there to crush him right away.

    Murray is absolutely dangerous running in space, but I'd want to hit him as much as possible as early as possible, because I don't think he'll stand up well to the hits.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butler By'Note View Post
    If I were an opposing defense I would love for him to run the read option, because I would tell my End to smash him every play. Just go crush the QB. Then I'd play read technique with my Backer, tell the end to crash, backer is reading the QB and has contain, once he sees the zone read then he needs to go downhill immediately. Murray is reading the end, he pulls, the LB is there to crush him right away.

    Murray is absolutely dangerous running in space, but I'd want to hit him as much as possible as early as possible, because I don't think he'll stand up well to the hits.
    What’s the coverage gonna look like on the backend? You’d have to play a lot of man or you’ll get a WR screaming down on that LB. If you play a lot of man Murray can kill you pulling the ball down and running. What if they have 2 RBs in the backfield and you don’t know which direction the option is going? There are a lot of things they can do to keep defenses on their heels. They added a lot of talent to their WR group as well with Johnson, Butler, and Isabella so this isn’t a Baltimore situation where you only have to worry about one WR beating you deep and the TEs. The new guys haven’t proven themselves yet but this is a college system so they don’t have the same learning curve most WRs have.

    The game plan to stop the read option hasn’t changed yet every time a new QB that can run fast takes over it always takes awhile for defenses to figure it out. But usually those QBs aren’t good passers, Murray is arguably the best passer we’ve seen that has this type of speed. You could argue Wilson but he isn’t nearly as explosive.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by beastlyskronk View Post
    What’s the coverage gonna look like on the backend? You’d have to play a lot of man or you’ll get a WR screaming down on that LB. If you play a lot of man Murray can kill you pulling the ball down and running. What if they have 2 RBs in the backfield and you don’t know which direction the option is going? There are a lot of things they can do to keep defenses on their heels. They added a lot of talent to their WR group as well with Johnson, Butler, and Isabella so this isn’t a Baltimore situation where you only have to worry about one WR beating you deep and the TEs. The new guys haven’t proven themselves yet but this is a college system so they don’t have the same learning curve most WRs have.

    The game plan to stop the read option hasn’t changed yet every time a new QB that can run fast takes over it always takes awhile for defenses to figure it out. But usually those QBs aren’t good passers, Murray is arguably the best passer we’ve seen that has this type of speed. You could argue Wilson but he isn’t nearly as explosive.
    Wouldn't be a base defense call, it would be an on the field check based on formation. Obviously it would also be dictated by tendencies. Shotgun, single back to the side, you're thinking zone read with the end on the same side as the back being read.

    As for coverages, obviously 1 and 0, but you could run combo coverage with 0 on the expected ZR side, and zone on away. It really depends on how many receivers are on each side. If it's a single set on the expected read side you're expecting 1 of 2 things, either the WR is going deep to take the corner out of the run D. Or the WR is running a quick slant to try and give a quick pass option. If it's a 2 receiver set on that side you're expecting a quick pick route, usually a slant from the WR and an out or sit route from the slot. In that case I'd play a read defense, let the DBs pick up the routes as they develop.

    The Cardinals receivers aren't the issue, nor am I arguing they lack weapons (although I do think their weapons aren't nearly as good as you do), their problem is they have an undersized QB with little experience trying to start from day 1. In the NFL he's going to have LBs and DBs who can catch him, and the windows he's throwing into will be 1/4 the size of the NCAA windows. Plus he'll see fronts, coverages and disguises that he's never seen before. He's going to get confused early and often, and when most young QBs are confused, their instinct is to run. But he lacks the speed advantage he had in college and the NFL players hit a lot harder.

    I don't think Lamar Jackson is a good comparison, because Jackson is bigger and had 3 years as a college starter. And Russell Wilson is a bad comparison as well because he's a much thicker athlete than Murray, and Wilson started in college for 3+ seasons. Wilson also played in more pro style offences in college.

    Now granted Murray has one advantage that he's not learning a new offense, BUT I have very little belief that a true Air Raid system is going to work in the NFL full time. The offensive line splits would get the QB killed. So they'll have to change that. Then you have the disguises that NFL defenses run, so the QB (a rookie) calling the play at the line based on the defense becomes questionable. Yes we're seeing more 3 and 4 receiver sets in the NFL than ever before (I say that with a nod to the old run n' shoot days) but a full time Air Raid offense will be a disaster.

    EDIT: To clarify, I'm not smack talking Murray (although I don't believe in him) I just think it's a QB with little experience going into the wrong system (for the NFL) and a coach who doesn't inspire confidence. If I'm wrong I'll own it, but I don't think this one ends well this year. Hopefully, for Murray, 2020 gives him a prostyle offensive coach who's willing to develop him properly.
    Last edited by Butler By'Note; 07-31-2019 at 07:56 PM.

  14. #14
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    Watching Cardinals vs Raiders live on Gamepass. Murray just took a safety. Raiders blitzed 3 times in a row. Murray 3/8 for 12 yds passing and 1 run for 4 yds. It’s one half of a preseason game but looks rough.

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