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  1. #436
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    Quote Originally Posted by 58Miller View Post
    No Iím not , i want Lock to stay on IR and red shirt this season. And that is being compared to a long list of first round picks and Gardner Minshew Who all started.
    My point is the injury, if he had been with us through the first 5 weeks I would be on board giving him some late season starts, but at this point I think itís a distraction.

    None of the guys mentioned as first year success were on IR first 8 weeks of the season .
    If the Broncos are eliminated from the playoffs, how would starting Lock be a distraction? Thatís a really poor reason to not see how a player can perform in regular season games.

  2. #437
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    Quote Originally Posted by 58Miller View Post
    No Iím not , i want Lock to stay on IR and red shirt this season. And that is being compared to a long list of first round picks and Gardner Minshew Who all started.
    My point is the injury, if he had been with us through the first 5 weeks I would be on board giving him some late season starts, but at this point I think itís a distraction.

    None of the guys mentioned as first year success were on IR first 8 weeks of the season .
    Red shirting involves practicing. A player on the IR canít practice. You are aware of that right?

  3. #438
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeelzeBob View Post
    Red shirting involves practicing. A player on the IR canít practice. You are aware of that right?
    Yes and that is unfortunate. But I want a better team around the kid, before we put him in there.

  4. #439
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    Quote Originally Posted by 58Miller View Post
    Minshew was brought in because Foles got injured. Right now Flacco is healthy and Lock is on IR.

    Since you obviously believe Minshew is an example of starting a rookie immediately as a plan.
    Is Minshew the Jags future QB or Tebowmania 2.0 ?
    It doesnít matter how he got on the field. The point is that heís playing well. Basically itís just a prime example of why the notion a rookie QB shouldnít play is fundamentally flawed.

    As far as whether or not heís their future, how should I know? Heís certainly playing like a future franchise QB, but football is about as unpredictable as it gets so who knows?

  5. #440
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    Quote Originally Posted by 58Miller View Post
    Yes and that is unfortunate. But I want a better team around the kid, before we put him in there.
    So basically you just want to waste the first year of his career for no reason?

  6. #441
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    Quote Originally Posted by 58Miller View Post
    Yes and that is unfortunate. But I want a better team around the kid, before we put him in there.
    Elway has worked on building a better team for the last three to four years. According to your words, the roster isnít good enough now to play a rookie quarterback. Thatís an indictment of Elway youíve made. Since the roster isnít good enough after the last three plus years of building, when exactly do you believe it will be good enough? What does good enough look like? Be specific.

  7. #442
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
    If the Broncos are eliminated from the playoffs, how would starting Lock be a distraction? Thatís a really poor reason to not see how a player can perform in regular season games.
    You donít think with Lock on the roster every week wonít turn into ďwhen is Lock going to start?Ē
    Every coach and player for the remaining 8 weeks being asked when will he start. The team doesnít need the distraction, and neither does Lock.
    If they do bring him back then i imagine he will get some late season starts and I will be rooting for him to succeed but I donít see the need that many of my fellow posters who want him to play this year.
    If Flacco wasnít locked up through next season I might feel different.
    All starting him is going to do is cause division in the fan base and possibly the locker room. I donít think many guys who have been playing every week care of Lock is brought back or not cause he has a lot to prove and the players respect to earn.

    This isnít about me being right, I hope I am wrong and he starts and never looks back, but i donít think thatís what will happen. And I support whatever the team chooses.

  8. #443
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    I think if Lock Is healthy and can play he should. We lose 2 more games and we can kiss the playoffs goodbye. What's the point of continuing to play Flacco when he clearly is not going to be apart of Denver's future? Play him and see what we have, all it will do is make him better for next season

  9. #444
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
    Elway has worked on building a better team for the last three to four years. According to your words, the roster isnít good enough now to play a rookie quarterback. Thatís an indictment of Elway youíve made. Since the roster isnít good enough after the last three plus years of building, when exactly do you believe it will be good enough? What does good enough look like? Be specific.
    The roster needs to improve, and I believe our GM who built the greatest regular season offense in NFL history followed by a Super Bowl winning dominant defense will do just that, I see the improvements already from week 1 - 5. Next year he can use the draft and the $70 million in cap space to add the pieces Fangios defense and Scangerellos offense need.

    Good enough in my mind is when we get to a point like the Chiefs where the only thing keeping us from being a SB contender is our Qb. Alex Smith was only gonna take that team to a certain point.
    I think once Lock has developed he has tools to do more than Flacco would be able to do in this offense, I just donít think this season is the time to throw him in there.

    Shannahan did something similar when he benched Plummer for Cutler. Unfortunately even though Cutler was a much better physical talent than Plummer he didnít have Plummerís heart or the teams respect.

  10. #445
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    Quote Originally Posted by 58Miller View Post
    You donít think with Lock on the roster every week wonít turn into ďwhen is Lock going to start?Ē
    Every coach and player for the remaining 8 weeks being asked when will he start. The team doesnít need the distraction, and neither does Lock.
    If they do bring him back then i imagine he will get some late season starts and I will be rooting for him to succeed but I donít see the need that many of my fellow posters who want him to play this year.
    If Flacco wasnít locked up through next season I might feel different.
    All starting him is going to do is cause division in the fan base and possibly the locker room. I donít think many guys who have been playing every week care of Lock is brought back or not cause he has a lot to prove and the players respect to earn.

    This isnít about me being right, I hope I am wrong and he starts and never looks back, but i donít think thatís what will happen. And I support whatever the team chooses.
    You seriously want to waste the first year of his career because bringing him back will cause the media to ask about him?

  11. #446
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    Quote Originally Posted by 58Miller View Post
    Iím comparing Brees to Lock!!!!!!
    The chargers played him to soon.
    That team needed more help and he struggled.
    His early struggles resulted in them drafting Phillip Rivers instead of getting a guy like Fitzgerald for Brees.

    Like Brees, Lock is a second rd pick and I donít want him taking the field until he has a better squad around him. Then we can see what he really can do.

    Deshaun Watson was a first rd pick cause he played well in big games in college,
    I think Lock went in the 2nd rd because he struggled vs Georgia and Bama.
    What is your take on every one of the other examples I provided inside of the last 3 years ? As someone else said, you are just saying things hoping they stick. I think you are too emotionally involved in your side of the argument here using 3 examples over 15 years to make a very weak case using outliers, while ignoring 11 examples which contradict your line of thinking in just the last 3 years, I don't understand it.

    Lock and Jones are actually pretty comparable here. Both played on teams who were usually out matched when it came to talent in college, both had a lot of bad tape out there, and both were seriously inconsistent. I think it was pretty clear that the Giants took a huge reach on Jones, and he probably should of went in the same area Lock did, so I don't put any stock into that argument.

    I would also say that Lock is a superior arm talent to Jones, played against tougher opponents than Jones, showed more improvement from year to year than Jones, and could do just as well when given the chance. Slapping a one size fits all argument on guys based on there draft positioning is beyond silly, especially when Kyle Allen and Gardner Minshew have stepped in looking like they have.

  12. #447
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    Quote Originally Posted by 58Miller View Post
    Flaccoís current position is starting QB of the Broncos and has shown leadership, showed up every day to work.
    Put us in the lead against the bears throwing a TD and a 2 pt conversion with 31 seconds left.

    Went right down the field in the final minutes vs Jacksonville

    Our defense gave up game winning drives in both those games.

    Meanwhile, Drew Lock has had his hand in a cast, but he is the future and leader this team needs?

    Sorry but grown men who have been fighting every week to get better and win want Flacco in the trenches with them not someone trying to learn the teams offense.

    Flaccoís numbers this year are better than Lock in every category because Lock is injured and canít help this team.
    Quote Originally Posted by 58Miller View Post
    You donít think with Lock on the roster every week wonít turn into ďwhen is Lock going to start?Ē
    Every coach and player for the remaining 8 weeks being asked when will he start. The team doesnít need the distraction, and neither does Lock.

    If they do bring him back then i imagine he will get some late season starts and I will be rooting for him to succeed but I donít see the need that many of my fellow posters who want him to play this year.
    If Flacco wasnít locked up through next season I might feel different.
    All starting him is going to do is cause division in the fan base and possibly the locker room. I donít think many guys who have been playing every week care of Lock is brought back or not cause he has a lot to prove and the players respect to earn.

    This isnít about me being right, I hope I am wrong and he starts and never looks back, but i donít think thatís what will happen. And I support whatever the team chooses.
    In your own words, bolded above you said emphatically Flacco is a leader. Youíve said grown men want to win with Flacco in the trenches. If you believe in what you claim, then thereís not a chance the team would be distracted. If you really believe Lock would be a distraction, then youíve disqualified your claim about Flaccoís leadership.

    The other way of viewing Lock returning from IR would be the the coaches and players seeing him as a backup. If the team were to stack some wins as Flacco said thereís a slight possibility the Broncos could chase a wildcard. Flacco isnít immune from injury. It would be a good thing to get Lock back practicing and preparing if needed.

    As far as the notion of Lock being a distraction, that simply wouldnít happen if Flacco is the leader you claimed.

  13. #448
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    Quote Originally Posted by JvDub95 View Post
    I think if Lock Is healthy and can play he should. We lose 2 more games and we can kiss the playoffs goodbye. What's the point of continuing to play Flacco when he clearly is not going to be apart of Denver's future? Play him and see what we have, all it will do is make him better for next season
    If Flacco is healthy why would you bench him?. Flacco has only played 5 games with this group and needs to continue to evolve in this offense and build chemistry with these guys, especially Fant and Sutton.

    The team restructured Flaccoís deal making it clear he will be the starter next year ( $23 million with $13 mil in dead money) thatís not what you pay a back up.

    My guess is from what they saw from Lock they knew Lock was going to need more time.

  14. #449
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    Quote Originally Posted by 58Miller View Post
    The roster needs to improve, and I believe our GM who built the greatest regular season offense in NFL history followed by a Super Bowl winning dominant defense will do just that, I see the improvements already from week 1 - 5. Next year he can use the draft and the $70 million in cap space to add the pieces Fangios defense and Scangerellos offense need.

    Good enough in my mind is when we get to a point like the Chiefs where the only thing keeping us from being a SB contender is our Qb. Alex Smith was only gonna take that team to a certain point.
    I think once Lock has developed he has tools to do more than Flacco would be able to do in this offense, I just donít think this season is the time to throw him in there.

    Shannahan did something similar when he benched Plummer for Cutler. Unfortunately even though Cutler was a much better physical talent than Plummer he didnít have Plummerís heart or the teams respect.
    Wait what? Thatís multiple home run drafts away, and we donít even know if Lock is an NFL QB. I mean what you are saying makes absolutely no sense.

  15. #450
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    Quote Originally Posted by 58Miller View Post
    If Flacco is healthy why would you bench him?. Flacco has only played 5 games with this group and needs to continue to evolve in this offense and build chemistry with these guys, especially Fant and Sutton.

    The team restructured Flacco’s deal making it clear he will be the starter next year ( $23 million with $13 mil in dead money) that’s not what you pay a back up.

    My guess is from what they saw from Lock they knew Lock was going to need more time.
    And that doesn't mean they are right. Are you going to use Elways decision making when it comes to quarterbacks as a reason to support your argument ? Really ? NFL teams get it wrong on a consistent basis, as highlight by the amount of teams who went into the season over the last 3 years with veteran quarterbacks as starters, all who were apparently more ready, yet were on the bench by week 10 for a rookie who was playing better than they were.

    And it isn't just one rookie who replaced the veteran and outperformed them, it has been literally EVERY SINGLE example over the last 3 years where the young guy has looked better, is that not registering with you here ? Why the stubbornness. I just hope we don't have a stubborn head coach that when the season is over, which in 3 weeks, odds are it might be, sticks with the veteran. Especially when the rest of the NFL will happily admit there mistakes on it, and turn it over to the young guy who proves them right in making that decision.

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