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  1. #466
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    Quote Originally Posted by 58Miller View Post
    Wilson earned his job and has been awesome.
    Trubisky was given a job and I havenít been impressed but Glennon isnít very good either.

    Lock was great in college accept when he played Georgia and Bama. Kid went in the second round cause he needs work.
    I noticed you avoided replying after your contradiction with Lock being a distraction was called out. Again, if Flacco is the leader you claim and the guy players want to win with in the trenches (your words), how would Lock be a distraction? Is Flacco not confident enough to handle a rookie coming off IR? If Lock hadnít have been injured he would have been on the sideline as the backup the entire season. By your logic Flacco would be distracted.

    I would agree Lock needs work. How is playing in regular season games not getting work? Those reps are very valuable for development. If playing in games werenít part of developing they wouldnít have played Lock in preseason. Weíre talking about playing if the Broncos are eliminated.

  2. #467
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    Quote Originally Posted by 58Miller View Post
    Your right and neither are your comparisons.

    Find an example of a team that hired a new coaching staff and traded for a veteran Qb and drafted a second rd qb who didn’t win the starting job and then got injured in the preseason, was brought back off IR week 8 and the team benched the starting QB once they were eliminated from the playoffs and he took over and was a success.
    You find that scenario and that would be the best comparison but even then it would be two different QBs and a different team.
    So you want an exact situation comparable down to the injury ? I don't think trying to make my point any clearer for you is worth my time here, you're too emotionally invested in this topic to see things clearly, but one last try.

    - 10 teams started veteran quarterbacks out of camp in the last 3 years only to replace them during the season.

    - This was due to either injury or poor play, and a young guy was turned to despite having no camp or extended preparation.

    - 9 teams have stuck with that player they turned to up until this moment as we speak, Rosen is the only of them who has been replaced.

    - The wait and develop approach has gave us 2 consensus examples in the past 15 years, Rodgers and Mahomes.

    - Denver alone has seen this approach fail on 2 occasions in the last 7 years, Brock Osweiler and Paxton Lynch.

    Can you see what I am saying here ?

  3. #468
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
    I noticed you avoided replying after your contradiction with Lock being a distraction was called out. Again, if Flacco is the leader you claim and the guy players want to win with in the trenches (your words), how would Lock be a distraction? Is Flacco not confident enough to handle a rookie coming off IR? If Lock hadnít have been injured he would have been on the sideline as the backup the entire season. By your logic Flacco would be distracted.

    I would agree Lock needs work. How is playing in regular season games not getting work? Those reps are very valuable for development. If playing in games werenít part of developing they wouldnít have played Lock in preseason. Weíre talking about playing if the Broncos are eliminated.
    My comment about Flacco being a leader is because he is a leader. He is the teams starting QB.
    I believe if we bring Lock back off IR the media will start asking the coaches and players about him starting every week and that would be a distraction.

    None of that says Flacco isnít a leader.

    The media asking the question would be the distraction.

    I think Flacco would do the same thing he did in Baltimore and support Lock if he got to start.
    That is going to happen eventually, I just donít think it should this year.

  4. #469
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    Also, I forgot, there is another example I can add to the list. The Miami Dolphins went with Ryan Fitspatrick out of camp, only to bench him for Josh Rosen, another young guy who is starting now. It's almost like there is a trend here in recent times that some people are just blatanly ignoring, can anyone see what that is ?

  5. #470
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnlimburg View Post
    So you want an exact situation comparable down to the injury ? I don't think trying to make my point any clearer for you is worth my time here, you're too emotionally invested in this topic to see things clearly, but one last try.

    - 10 teams started veteran quarterbacks out of camp in the last 3 years only to replace them during the season.

    - This was due to either injury or poor play, and a young guy was turned to despite having no camp or extended preparation.

    - 10 teams have stuck with that player they turned to up until this moment as we speak, none of them have been replaced.

    - The wait and develop approach has gave us 2 consensus examples in the past 15 years, Rodgers and Mahomes.

    - Denver alone has seen this approach fail on 2 occasions in the last 7 years, Brock Osweiler and Paxton Lynch.

    Can you see what I am saying here ?
    Which rookie second rd QB came off of IR week 8?

    Paxton and Brock failed because we didnít bench Manning and Siemien?
    I donít agree I think they both arenít very good.
    We went to two Superbowls with Manning and Siemien won 9 games in 2016 all I remember Paxton doing was crying on the sideline.

  6. #471
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnlimburg View Post
    Also, I forgot, there is another example I can add to the list. The Miami Dolphins went with Ryan Fitspatrick out of camp, only to bench him for Josh Rosen, another young guy who is starting now. It's almost like there is a trend here in recent times that some people are just blatanly ignoring, can anyone see what that is ?
    Rosen is a second year player who played year one and got traded because the team didnít think he was their future starter. I wonít be surprised if Miami does the same thing.
    He was thrown into meaningless games looked lost and the team gave up on him.

    Bad example.

  7. #472
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    I got to go guys. I appreciate all of your opinions and honestly I hope Iím wrong and Lock comes off IR and gets to start some games, I just donít see it as a good decision this year.
    Thanks again Iíll check back in Sunday.
    Go Broncos

  8. #473
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    Quote Originally Posted by 58Miller View Post
    Rosen is a second year player who played year one and got traded because the team didn’t think he was their future starter. I won’t be surprised if Miami does the same thing.
    He was thrown into meaningless games looked lost and the team gave up on him.

    Bad example.
    Also, another point you make which supports the argument you are arguing against. The Cardinals played their young guy, had the first overall pick, and made the decision they felt they had a brighter future with a different guy. Well, if we play Lock down the stretch which you oppose, we get an extended look at him, and probably end up with a shot at going with a different player as well depending on how Lock plays.

    Quote Originally Posted by 58Miller View Post
    Which rookie second rd QB came off of IR week 8?

    Paxton and Brock failed because we didn’t bench Manning and Siemien?
    I don’t agree I think they both aren’t very good.
    We went to two Superbowls with Manning and Siemien won 9 games in 2016 all I remember Paxton doing was crying on the sideline.
    But Osweiler got to sit behind an NFL legend for 4 years, was a second round pick like Lock, and then he didn't pan out, this goes against every argument you are trying to make. Are you thinking about the things you are saying ? You are almost contradicting yourself with every single post you make and on every single point you attempt to make. Anyway, I'm bowing out of this one. Attempted discussion with someone emotional invested on a topic is a waste of everyone's time. Good day, and Go Broncos.

  9. #474
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    Quote Originally Posted by 58Miller View Post
    My comment about Flacco being a leader is because he is a leader. He is the teams starting QB.
    I believe if we bring Lock back off IR the media will start asking the coaches and players about him starting every week and that would be a distraction.

    None of that says Flacco isnít a leader.

    The media asking the question would be the distraction.

    I think Flacco would do the same thing he did in Baltimore and support Lock if he got to start.
    That is going to happen eventually, I just donít think it should this year.
    Lock was the #2 before the injury. If not for the injury he would have been the backup for 16 games, twice that coming off IR. Youíre saying the players which includes Flacco would be distracted by Lock coming back? Youíre essentially saying they would have been distracted with Lock as the backup for the entire season. If Flacco is the leader you say he is, how would Lock be a distraction? Lock would have been there all season if not for the injury. Thatís saying Fangio, Flacco and the team canít handle having a rookie quarterback as the backup with the media asking questions. I just donít buy that. If the so called distraction were true and the team canít handle it then itís a pretty weak roster.

  10. #475
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    Quote Originally Posted by 58Miller View Post
    Wilson earned his job and has been awesome.
    Trubisky was given a job and I havenít been impressed but Glennon isnít very good either.

    Lock was great in college accept when he played Georgia and Bama. Kid went in the second round cause he needs work.
    Mayfield was great in college until he played Georgia, same with Murray and they were taken first overall. Jones was meh in college but was still taken very high. Sure beating top teams in college is nice but itís about being able to demonstrate traits, not just put up stats. Keenum put up absurd stats in college, it hasnít translated. Mariota put up great stats in college, it hasnít translated.

    Lock has shown a lot of traits that are common in franchise QBs in a handful of preseason games as well as college. He hasnít hit that level of consistency needed to be great but heís only going to get that with live reps. In a way Iíd say heís eerily similar to Lamar Jackson in that regard, they actually have a scary similar career arc so far. Jackson often flashes the traits of a franchise QB but he isnít consistent yet. But he flashed some top notch passing ability once or twice a game last season. Then he goes into the offseason with a clear understanding of what, how, and why he needs to improve instead of the ever vague ďwork on your mechanicsĒ and ďlearn the offenseĒ. And while he has regressed off his absurd start, teams are treating him like a QB that can beat you with his arm now. Meanwhile Mayfield seems to have bought into himself this offseason and has thoroughly regressed.

    The live game reps are important to get a true idea of what you can and canít do, what you need to work on, why you need to work on it, and how you go about working on it because then he would have something that he can actually reference to instead of ďwell this worked in the vr simĒ or ďwell this worked in practice at 60% game speedĒ.

  11. #476
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    Quote Originally Posted by 58Miller View Post
    I got to go guys. I appreciate all of your opinions and honestly I hope Iím wrong and Lock comes off IR and gets to start some games, I just donít see it as a good decision this year.
    Thanks again Iíll check back in Sunday.
    Go Broncos
    Fair enough. Enjoy your weekend and the game Sunday!

  12. #477
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    Quote Originally Posted by 58Miller View Post
    Yet Mahomes the best Qb in the league sat for a year
    Rodger 3 seasons.

    We already know we need more talent on the offensive side. Putting a Qb in who doesnt know the offense as well is going to hurt everyone on the offenses development.
    Lock showed he needed alot of work and then got injured in the preseason thats why he needs to wait. He is way behind Flacco and Allen as of today.
    Ok first of Rodgers didn't sit because he was not ready to play he sat bc he had a HOF qb ahead of him that was still playing good. Pat didn't sit bc he wasn't ready he had a MVP qb candidate head of him. Stop using these weak excuses for flacco. You trying to make it seem as if great. You know what the ravens record would beat if Lamar Jackson had our def and he puts up the same points? 4-1 however with their old qb flacco we would have our same record 1-4. Stop blaming our def.

  13. #478
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    Quote Originally Posted by 58Miller View Post
    Iím comparing Brees to Lock!!!!!!
    The chargers played him to soon.
    That team needed more help and he struggled.
    His early struggles resulted in them drafting Phillip Rivers instead of getting a guy like Fitzgerald for Brees.

    Like Brees, Lock is a second rd pick and I donít want him taking the field until he has a better squad around him. Then we can see what he really can do.

    Deshaun Watson was a first rd pick cause he played well in big games in college,
    I think Lock went in the 2nd rd because he struggled vs Georgia and Bama.
    Well can't we say that for about 98% of nfl qbs???please stop with this "we need a better line for him" "we need better weapons" in order for him to succeed??? Yea every team can sit and wait 2 or 3 years to get all the perfect pieces around lock and then gift wrap him the perfect team. That is crap. Take cam newton. Every one was talking about his line and how he is getting sack enter Kevin no one is talking about his line. Wilson has not had a good line since he entered the league and who is his wrs and t.e. and rb by committee. Stop making excuses for these qbs. According to must people on this board lock was a sure 1st rounder. Some even though we should trade up from 10 to ensure we get him. If we took him at 10 it wouldn't have been a shocker. But since he fell to the 2nd now he needs to sit. Does Murray, jones, and Haskins all got a taste. News flash when you draft in the top 10 2 years in a row you team is NOT a really good team.
    So say we get this mythical oline and great wr and he still struggles then what????

    You put lock out there as soon as he is ready. To see what you got. All these people that was pounding the pavement for lock now want to see him sit the bench is crazy.

    Sometimes it doesn't take years to find out a qb just doesn't have it.

  14. #479
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    Quote Originally Posted by 58Miller View Post
    The roster needs to improve, and I believe our GM who built the greatest regular season offense in NFL history followed by a Super Bowl winning dominant defense will do just that, I see the improvements already from week 1 - 5. Next year he can use the draft and the $70 million in cap space to add the pieces Fangios defense and Scangerellos offense need.

    Good enough in my mind is when we get to a point like the Chiefs where the only thing keeping us from being a SB contender is our Qb. Alex Smith was only gonna take that team to a certain point.
    I think once Lock has developed he has tools to do more than Flacco would be able to do in this offense, I just donít think this season is the time to throw him in there.

    Shannahan did something similar when he benched Plummer for Cutler. Unfortunately even though Cutler was a much better physical talent than Plummer he didnít have Plummerís heart or the teams respect.
    Elway didn't "build" nothing. It was a choice that was made. If manning would have chose S.F. over the Broncos we would have NOT made it to two Superbowls nor won one # facts.

  15. #480
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    Quote Originally Posted by 58Miller View Post
    The offense is improving, back to back weeks putting 17 up in the first half, after we only put up 13 in the 1st half of the first 3 games combined.
    And what did they do in the second half with this flacco lead offense?

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