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  1. #1531
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    Quote Originally Posted by BroncoFanDK View Post
    I think most fans of the team hope that Lock will just keep growing and become an elite QB, but it is bit hard to swallow annointing him our future franchise QB based on ONE good drive which took a tremendous catch from Sutton on a 20% ball, and huge give aways from the Chargers. Lock's first real game is nothing compared to what Siemian did in his first game against much better competition, and Allen played a lot better against the Browns.

    The proof is whether Lock can get knocked down, learn and improve but the likelihood of him being a Christian Ponder instead of a Tom Brady is overwhelming.

    Scoring drives moved the ball 80, 18, 21 and 28 (penalty). There was nothing that showed a methodical ability to move the ball. 50% in the red zone - OK, but lets keep it real. According to Pro-Football_reference's expected points metric this was the 8th best offensive performance of the year by the Broncos.
    I think some folks are trying to put a hose on the enthusiasm, moreso than what I would call fairly basic expectation.....goes like this. You select a QB high in the draft, you give him support, you throw him in there, and if he looks "ok" then he is worth sticking with as long as he deserves it. Lock did little that made me wince on Sunday. He walked in confidently, was eager to throw the long ball right away, showed "zip" on his passes, ran when he felt he should, and but for the one pic, and a couple of balls that were errant (though partly a "getting to know one another" issue more than anything else)Ö.he was just fine. He made the pass that needed to be made with little time on the clock. He threw a perfect ball to Hamilton that was clearly a big gainer in the making. And he did so with constant "refreshing" with his arm guide. He clearly hasn't had enough reps, and he should have, because that's not on him.

    So to those who are all ansi about declaring him the long term guy, go for it. I see it different. I say he is the guy, and we stick with him....until it is obvious he is not. Sort of the, "innocent until proven guilty" analogy. Why? Again, he was drafted high for a reason. And he has shown the skills we are looking for. So do we just start looking again, and again, and again? In that case, I would just sell the farm and make a monster deal with Baltimore or KC or Houston, and acquire their respective QBs. Then we can maybe sleep good for a while....except we would have few other decent players left....(it's a joke).

    So yeah, some of us seem happy and even a bit excited about Drew Lock. But step back for a second and gaze the situation. So far he looks as good or better than some of us expected. So why not just go with that for a while, give him some space to grow, and see how far he takes us.

    The alternative is not very good, and not saying we are desperate to hang on to him, but we can not play this "keep searching" game anymore. We have lost so much draft capital. And we have lost out on some really good talent in other positions. And we definitely can not seriously be drafting another high level QB, not this offseason. Who knows if they will turn out? And Burrow will be gone, UNLESS we drain way more capital! We are on pace to pick closer to 10th or so, and another win or two keeps us there. To move up to #1 would be EXPENSIVE!

    AND WE KEEP NEGLECTING OTHER KEY POSITIONS OF NEED!!!

    So yeah, as far I can tell, it is not only fairly clear we have our guy by simple observation/history, but is almost a necessity that we start believing in who we draft, and maximize our overall resources in the process.
    Last edited by CanDB; 12-03-2019 at 09:18 AM.

  2. #1532
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    I love message boards.

    Rookie QB has a decent game: "It's only one game. No need to get enthusiastic about it" vs "The rookie looked decent, I'm excited"

    Rookie QB has a bad game "See, I told you he isn't the answer!" vs "It's only one game. No need to bash the kid"

    It really is too early to tell - either way. I'm personally encouraged and have hope for the kid. Still, I must adhere to the philosophy I've been pounding my fist on the table about for the last month. Lock must get as much of an assessment as possible to make the best possible decisions concerning the upcoming off season. Whether it is Lock (fingers crossed because this is best case scenario), or another QB in the draft, this franchise must commit to a QB rather than continuing with the vet QB approach.

    As far as what my expectations are to make me declare he should be the uncontested starter going into next year, well that's really subjective for me. I personally care more about leadership and physical ability way more than I care about stats, but that's just me. Rookie QBs rarely put up eye popping stats. Still, if he hangs around 55-60% completions and maintains a positive TD/INT ratio, I'll probably be all in on the kid so long as he continues to conduct himself like a starter and passes the "eye test"

    I'm just happy that we have something interesting and compelling to watch for the next month.

  3. #1533
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    Quote Originally Posted by RocketArm006 View Post
    I love message boards.

    Rookie QB has a decent game: "It's only one game. No need to get enthusiastic about it" vs "The rookie looked decent, I'm excited"

    Rookie QB has a bad game "See, I told you he isn't the answer!" vs "It's only one game. No need to bash the kid"

    It really is too early to tell - either way. I'm personally encouraged and have hope for the kid. Still, I must adhere to the philosophy I've been pounding my fist on the table about for the last month. Lock must get as much of an assessment as possible to make the best possible decisions concerning the upcoming off season. Whether it is Lock (fingers crossed because this is best case scenario), or another QB in the draft, this franchise must commit to a QB rather than continuing with the vet QB approach.

    As far as what my expectations are to make me declare he should be the uncontested starter going into next year, well that's really subjective for me. I personally care more about leadership and physical ability way more than I care about stats, but that's just me. Rookie QBs rarely put up eye popping stats. Still, if he hangs around 55-60% completions and maintains a positive TD/INT ratio, I'll probably be all in on the kid so long as he continues to conduct himself like a starter and passes the "eye test"

    I'm just happy that we have something interesting and compelling to watch for the next month.
    Hey pal....do you think it ok that we get a wee bit excited, or should I stick my finger into a "weak" electrical outlet just to change the mood for a moment?

    But wait....I could just go along and say something like, "looked ok, but needs a lot more assessment....hard to say....might have to draft another one, but who knows?? Maybe that franchise LT will have to wait another year, or two."

    (I agree with you)

  4. #1534
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    Further to....

    I often read what others here say, given their local knowledge, which I don't have. But I seem to recall some saying that Lock was not progressing, and I think I read that he is not in the long term plans. Then I see his performance and I realize that he is pretty decent. So I take that as a positive, and against some pro bowler defenders at that.

    Lets see: QB Rates for rookies...

    Minshew - 91.1
    Murray - 88.4
    Lock - 84.5 (I know, just one game)
    Jones - 84.0
    Finley - 62.1
    Haskins - 58.5

    Just a simple comparison.

    As for anyone who thinks one or more of our recent QBs would have been a better player for us going forward.....where are they now?

    Last....I am eager, yes. I will put it out there that I feel fairly confident about finding our QB. Risky business, because folks can remind you forever and a day when you were wrong. But I take that challenge. After all, some folks will hang onto things, even when they were wrong in the first place. So not a biggee. I like what I see. My track record is not perfect, but I will make that prediction. If I'm wrong, I'm open to reasonable critiques.

    Bottom line, none of us know for sure....not me as well. I just feel something good going on.

  5. #1535
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnlimburg View Post
    That is true, I acknowledge that. However, we are looking at flashes of potential and prospects of being the future, I could have hit that throw, wouldn't of shown much either, but I understand your point. Consistently moving the ball is how you earn your keep as a quarterback, the offense once again failed to do that against the Chargers, and that is what I am hoping to see down the stretch.
    Agree. I would be fine with incremental improvement each game. There will be setbacks. He canít control the calls by Scangarello and needs to execute when given the opportunity.

  6. #1536
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    And more.....2018 rookie QBs:

    Mayfield 93.7
    Jackson 84.5
    Darnold 77.6
    Allen 67.9
    Rosen 66.7

    I could go back...rookies will not always shine. We all know that. Some will even regress, even beyond year one.

  7. #1537
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanDB View Post
    And more.....2018 rookie QBs:

    Mayfield 93.7
    Jackson 84.5
    Darnold 77.6
    Allen 67.9
    Rosen 66.7

    I could go back...rookies will not always shine. We all know that. Some will even regress, even beyond year one.
    With Lock, I think the best is yet to come. His work ethic is demonstrably high, I think we will see marked improvement in his 2nd start this Sunday.

  8. #1538
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanDB View Post
    Hey pal....do you think it ok that we get a wee bit excited, or should I stick my finger into a "weak" electrical outlet just to change the mood for a moment?

    But wait....I could just go along and say something like, "looked ok, but needs a lot more assessment....hard to say....might have to draft another one, but who knows?? Maybe that franchise LT will have to wait another year, or two."

    (I agree with you)
    Haha. You should be as pumped as you want to be. Iím excited about the kid too.

  9. #1539
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    Quote Originally Posted by Papa-pwn View Post
    With Lock, I think the best is yet to come. His work ethic is demonstrably high, I think we will see marked improvement in his 2nd start this Sunday.
    Quote Originally Posted by RocketArm006 View Post
    Haha. You should be as pumped as you want to be. I’m excited about the kid too.
    So nice to have positive talks about a rookie QB, given QBs can be a real source of debate.

    Yeah, the more I think of it, the more it comes down to (limited) observation and gut feeling. He just looks like a guy who can fulfill the responsibility, and be supported by his team.

    And can I just dwell on one point that has made me very happy thinking about:

    Has it crossed anyone's mind that the Lock/Sutton combo may be a hugely productive tandem down the road??!!


  10. #1540
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    Quote Originally Posted by Papa-pwn View Post
    With Lock, I think the best is yet to come. His work ethic is demonstrably high, I think we will see marked improvement in his 2nd start this Sunday.
    Iím more excited for the last 3 games against far inferior defenses.

    It might be a bit much to expect marked improvement this week considering itís on the road against a good pass rush. Brady just looked pretty bad on the road against them.

    I hope you are right and maybe the play calling opens up a bit. But Iím not expecting much this week being on the road.

  11. #1541
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanDB View Post
    Has it crossed anyone's mind that the Lock/Sutton combo may be a hugely productive tandem down the road??!!
    Several people have mentioned it. More importantly, there are potentially more than two Offensive pieces in place already. We need Fant to progress and we need a WR2 to emerge. We need Jano to stay healthy. We need stability on the O-line.

  12. #1542
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    Quote Originally Posted by listopencil View Post
    Several people have mentioned it. More importantly, there are potentially more than two Offensive pieces in place already. We need Fant to progress and we need a WR2 to emerge. We need Jano to stay healthy. We need stability on the O-line.
    Yes, I am sure I am not the first to have mentioned. But it hit me after the game, that this could be a story for many years to come. Exciting stuff!

    I see it similar on your offensive needs. I think we can easily take care of The Oline this offseason. There are some really good Tackles in the draft and I have no issue with a smart FA signing....unless we go 2 Oliners in the draft. That's why I prefer we go WR with our second pick, to fortify the receiving corps. FA is also an option at that position. IMO, if we strengthen our Oline and WR groups, and re-evaluate the TE position, we're set. Sounds like a lot, but not really. We will have decent draft picks to solve some of that.

    BUT....our GM has to choose the right players. That's my concern. Address Oline and WR in the first 3 rounds. Use FA wisely, whether it be for these or any other positions of need.

  13. #1543
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    Quote Originally Posted by DenverBlood View Post
    Iím more excited for the last 3 games against far inferior defenses.

    It might be a bit much to expect marked improvement this week considering itís on the road against a good pass rush. Brady just looked pretty bad on the road against them.

    I hope you are right and maybe the play calling opens up a bit. But Iím not expecting much this week being on the road.
    Good pass rush? They are bottom 5 in the league in sacks per pass and sacks per game. In terms of pass rush, Houston is worse than every team besides Detroit left on our schedule. Also, Houston is also a bottom 10 pass defense in terms of both yardage and passer rating. KC and SD were the best two pass defenses left on our schedule.
    Last edited by Papa-pwn; 12-03-2019 at 01:32 PM.

  14. #1544
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanDB View Post
    Yes, I am sure I am not the first to have mentioned. But it hit me after the game, that this could be a story for many years to come. Exciting stuff!

    I see it similar on your offensive needs. I think we can easily take care of The Oline this offseason. There are some really good Tackles in the draft and I have no issue with a smart FA signing....unless we go 2 Oliners in the draft. That's why I prefer we go WR with our second pick, to fortify the receiving corps. FA is also an option at that position. IMO, if we strengthen our Oline and WR groups, and re-evaluate the TE position, we're set. Sounds like a lot, but not really. We will have decent draft picks to solve some of that.

    BUT....our GM has to choose the right players. That's my concern. Address Oline and WR in the first 3 rounds. Use FA wisely, whether it be for these or any other positions of need.
    I haven't given up on WR Winfree. We also have WR Patrick who has had his development delayed by injury. Our WR corps may be better than you think. I'd be pleased with a Tackle in the first, and a Center in the second round to move McGovern back to RG.

  15. #1545
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    Quote Originally Posted by listopencil View Post
    I haven't given up on WR Winfree. We also have WR Patrick who has had his development delayed by injury. Our WR corps may be better than you think. I'd be pleased with a Tackle in the first, and a Center in the second round to move McGovern back to RG.
    Doubtful, it's all hope and prayers right now as not one guy outside of Sutton has demonstrated any reliability or ability to consistently make plays. Although, we have had bad quarterback play consistently this year from every guy who has started, so it can be hard to see what a guy can do when your quarterbacks don't enable you to threaten all areas of the field. I think prioritising the offensive line in the draft over wideout is a must though. We cannot continue to throw Bolles out there and hope for different results. We need help along the whole offensive line unit, and I would much prefer to move forward with Sutton and whoever, then with Bolles and them boys.

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