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Thread: Dre'Mont Jones

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnlimburg View Post
    Incorrect, and there is a huge difference. You watched your team play as a fan, I went back and watched at least 8 games of Jones specifically, every snap. What I said is echoed, widely, or you could say I echoed what is widely considered and known of the player being discussed. Also, again, your "evidence" at the end of your post doesn't have anything to do with what is being said. I am not projecting forward what I think of Jones and what he could be, and it doesn't mean Jones will never be good at defending the run. But, like the point you mentioned about Hayward, it was probably true based on what he produce playing college ball, but, he developed. As I had posted, as it's widely been said, Jones has some negatives, and that is why he was a third round pick. If he develops he could get better at it, but it doesn't mean it wasn't shown in the past on the tape. I also have no reason to be saying these things, I am not emotional involved on the topic like you clearly are "Buckeye Bronco".
    Feel free to post your film notes. The burden of proof is on you. You're assuming I do not have objectivity. I have provided evidence contrary to your claims. If you even watch the last preseason game you'll see he played the run very well, and one of his best plays was a TFL. Dig your heels and spout word salads all you want, but it's just not fact.

    There are many talented people who have fallen in the draft. Unless you know what teams want, who they think is the best on the board, etc. it's hard to be accurate on why he fell to the 3rd round. The fact this draft was rich in DT and overall defensive talent obviously had an impact. Look at how the Raiders drafted! They picked players in the 1st & 2nd round that could have been grabbed much later.

    Then there are over two dozen different specialized player positions being drafted. I never said Jones was Aaron Donald, all I've stated was his inability to defend the run is over-exaggerated. All of these draft analysts that make up mock drafts need positives and negatives, and his weight is an automatic red flag for people who didn't watch the tape.

    Matt Miller had him as 5th DL and 19th in total. Todd McShay had him as the 21st best player at the end of the 2017 season.
    https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...y-in-rose-bowl

    All of those assessments were based on his play from a year he played injured.

    If you actually watched the film and knew the 2018 tOSU team, the fact there were a ton of injuries and it was arguably the worst and most inconsistent defensive units in decades. He and Chase Young were two of the only players that shined. He was often double-teamed and still put up amazing numbers.

    Keep in mind, when Nick Bosa was injured they played him outside and not at the 0 or 3 where he's more effective and comfortable.

    The last reason I'll provide is that he had a terrible combine. They tested and rated him as an LB, and he just didn't run or perform well that day. When you look sluggish as a "fast but light" DT it will kill your stock. He was rated #2 as a top 10 player that hurt his draft stock. So we all have seen when players that are workout warriors kill the combine, this was the other side of the bell curve.

    https://lettermenrow.com/ohio-state-...eyes-football/

    He was all BIG10 at DL and had 40 tackles with 13 for a loss in a 13 game season. Tape and numbers do not support your parroting of lazy assessments.
    Last edited by Buckeye Bronco; 08-06-2019 at 12:47 PM.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam_Z View Post
    I’m not saying anyone has said it in this particular thread but for anyone who still thinks Jones is too small for this defense, please show me where.

    THIS! He's a very good DT. My biggest critique is his spin move. It's too slow and loops too wide to be effective.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buckeye Bronco View Post
    Feel free to post your film notes. The burden of proof is on you. You're assuming I do not have objectivity. I have provided evidence contrary to your claims. If you even watch the last preseason game you'll see he played the run very well, and one of his best plays was a TFL. Dig your heels and spout word salads all you want, but it's just not fact.

    There are many talented people who have fallen in the draft. Unless you know what teams want, who they think is the best on the board, etc. it's hard to be accurate on why he fell to the 3rd round. The fact this draft was rich in DT and overall defensive talent obviously had an impact. Look at how the Raiders drafted! They picked players in the 1st & 2nd round that could have been grabbed much later.

    Then there are over two dozen different specialized player positions being drafted. I never said Jones was Aaron Donald, all I've stated was his inability to defend the run is over-exaggerated. All of these draft analysts that make up mock drafts need positives and negatives, and his weight is an automatic red flag for people who didn't watch the tape.

    Matt Miller had him as 5th DL and 19th in total. Todd McShay had him as the 21st best player at the end of the 2017 season.
    https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...y-in-rose-bowl

    All of those assessments were based on his play from a year he played injured.

    If you actually watched the film and knew the 2018 tOSU team, the fact there were a ton of injuries and it was arguably the worst and most inconsistent defensive units in decades. He and Chase Young were two of the only players that shined. He was often double-teamed and still put up amazing numbers.

    Keep in mind, when Nick Bosa was injured they played him outside and not at the 0 or 3 where he's more effective and comfortable.

    The last reason I'll provide is that he had a terrible combine. They tested and rated him as an LB, and he just didn't run or perform well that day. When you look sluggish as a "fast but light" DT it will kill your stock. He was rated #2 as a top 10 player that hurt his draft stock. So we all have seen when players that are workout warriors kill the combine, this was the other side of the bell curve.

    https://lettermenrow.com/ohio-state-...eyes-football/

    He was all BIG10 at DL and had 40 tackles with 13 for a loss in a 13 game season. Tape and numbers do not support your parroting of lazy assessments.
    You are grasping for straws, your "evidence" was weak, it wasn't even related to the topic, and your source to validate your side of the argument contradicts and disagrees with you. That one pre-season play where he was essentially unblocked and made a nice tackle in the back field was something he has demonstrated at OSU, that doesn't even in the slightest disprove what the biggest knock on him was, quick penetration and gap shooting is a positive of his. Also, yes, everyone who watches the tape and generates those scouting reports for online media outlets colluded to just list a bunch of negatives so they could fill up the list, he only has one negative, "a slow spin move", and you, the "Buckeye Bronco", knows what really happened as a fan of the team he played for, everyone else was seeing the wrong thing, okay.

    Leverage -

    Pad level is disappointing most of the time. Already has a built-in leverage advantage due to being 6-foot-2, but fails to use it too often, standing straight up and getting carried off down the line of scrimmage. Double teams are an issue. Consistently caught high off the snap and struggles to control or detach from blockers as a result. Needs to do a better job of dropping his pads when he corners his opponent as a rusher.

    https://thedraftnetwork.com/player/dremont-jones
    Two Gap Ability

    Is not going to offer a franchise anything in the way of stacking blocks. Needs to be playing forward, stalemates at the LOS will result in loss of leverage and bubbles at the point of attack for ball carriers to zip through. Not in his skill set.

    https://thedraftnetwork.com/player/dremont-jones
    Run Defense -

    Lacks the power and mass to anchor and win at the point of attack with consistency. Gets blasted out of his gap in drive block situations. Lacks functional strength and high pads exacerbate this issue. Not reliable to maintain his run fits.

    https://thedraftnetwork.com/player/dremont-jones
    Weaknesses

    Top-heavy frame with narrow hips and lower half
    Gets too straight-legged during engagement at point of attack
    Tall pad level and poor base width hinder contact balance
    Below average in freeing himself from down blocks and power
    Size and strength concerns could make him one-gap dependent

    https://www.nfl.com/prospects/dre'mo...d-a05e4abae41c
    Negatives:

    —Pad height is a concern with a top-heavy approach out of his stance that will need correcting; on first viewing our scouts noted he played like he was 6'5", not 6'3".

    —Missed time in 2017 after a cut on his leg became an issue; was considering entering 2018 draft class before the injury.

    —Can get washed down quickly in the run game when he tries to squeeze through gaps and penetrate the line. Must learn to play square and fight to hold his ground.

    https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...r-broncos-pick
    CONS

    Needs to be more stout in the ground game
    Needs to improve lateral anchor

    http://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2019DJones.php

    Weaknesses:

    Tends to rely too much on arm-over moves. This causes him to raise his pad level more frequently, giving more body surface for offensive linemen to contact. He needs to learn to rip past blockers as opposed to swimming over them.

    Although he flashes potential in the run game, he lacks hip strength to consistently stack and shed blocks. He’s easily turned by run blockers and tends to play with a light base

    https://www.cover1.net/scouting-repo...dt-ohio-state/
    CONS
    Plays too high and takes away his pass rush leverage. Rises vertically out of his stance and often stops his feet when rushing. Gets upright and narrow.
    Doesn’t possesses overwhelming power and isn’t a threat to win with bull rush moves against the run. Lacks frame to 2-Gap and gets engulfed, driven out by doubles.

    https://draftwire.usatoday.com/2019/...es-ohio-state/
    As stated, commenting on what has been clearly seen on tape in the past isn't projecting, or saying that the player will forever have struggles in that area, I am not doing that anyway. You are clearly defensive over this player who played for a team you are a fan of, and 100% in my opinion letting that effect your take. I think Jones will be fine and provide an immediate impact in pass rushing situations as I said. However, based on the tape he produced at OSU, I think he may be a little bit away from being a complete player who plays on every down, because as it is widely known, he wasn't a great run defender at OSU, regardless of what you think you seen. Anyway, I'll leave it there, and by the way, Matt Miller who you used as "evidence" in your post, he is one of those quotes up above echoing what I was saying, interesting.

  4. #19
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    Denver's current group of D-Linemen look like one-gap disruptors. I'll be surprised if they play any two-gap. Run D is fill the A-B-C gaps and spill runs to the sideline, which has never failed to make a stop. Pursuit is essential. I'd love to see Vic Fangio's pursuit drills.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnlimburg View Post
    I don't put any merit into Pro Football Focus and their numerous flawed grading systems at multiple position groups. Now, anyone who watched Jones would know he was weak against the run, that is why he fell to where he did. With the ability Jones showed as a pass rusher at OSU, you have to ask the question, why then did he fall to where Denver was able to grab him, the 3rd round ? If he was great against the run, with the clear talent he showed as a pass rusher, he would of went much higher, and this opinion was widely shared leading into the draft, it isn't some secret.

    Now, that play you posted doesn't show anything in regards to his ability to play the run, nor does it dis spell anything I just stated as a negative of his coming out of OSU. Jones was left unblocked by a 3rd/4th string, patchwork offense line in a pre-season game, and he was athletic enough to close and make a good tackle. As I said, the real issue is with the high pad level Jones plays with, his lack of ability to anchor the run, and the way he wasn't able to shed blocks efficiently at the college level. His value will be as a pass rusher here in spot situations, until he develops on his game from college. Your statistics and fandom don't change the tape.
    5 minutes to go in the 4th quarter.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam_Z View Post
    He’s looking pretty top heavy right now, it would take a strong base to support that broad frame.

    I’m not saying he has legs like Jamal Anderson but he’s a pro football player and I’m pretty confident that he’ll be more than capable of holding his own here.

    Can’t wait to see the pass rush from him, Walker, Miller and Chubb on third down!
    trivia time: who is this giant thigh man?


  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by broncos SB2010 View Post
    trivia time: who is this giant thigh man?

    Earl. Campbell

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by broncos SB2010 View Post
    trivia time: who is this giant thigh man?

    lorenzo White Houston Oilers in the 90's?
    GO BRONCOS AFC Champs!!!

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by samparnell View Post
    Earl. Campbell
    or that lol. I always forget he existed since he was before my time watching foosball
    GO BRONCOS AFC Champs!!!

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by samparnell View Post
    Earl. Campbell
    ding ding ding

    guy was a monster. I was hoping for more votes before the correct one

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buckeye Bronco View Post
    How was his leverage "always" below par? PFF gave him an 86.2 grade vs. the run for 2018. That's the same year they lost Nick Bosa and Chase Young played all year with bad ankles. With all of those injuries and having to play 2-gap 3-technique every play in a 4-3 defense, that's pretty damn good. He was the #1 interior DL for the B1G10 in 2018, so all of this crap about trying to find fault in his game or calling him a project is not accurate whatsoever. He had 40 tackles/23 solo, 13 TFL, and 8.5 sacks in 13 games.

    His best play last night was vs. the run!

    https://twitter.com/JoRo_NFL/status/1157124590486917120

    He plays high and fast so some automatically say he's undersized and doesn't keep pads low enough. He's been a starter at Saint Ignatius, a national powerhouse, then he was productive for 3 years at tOSU.
    I don't think that is accurate. That would be impressive to me if it is true. I think most of the time he played 1 gap, could be wrong though.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buckeye Bronco View Post
    How was his leverage "always" below par? PFF gave him an 86.2 grade vs. the run for 2018. That's the same year they lost Nick Bosa and Chase Young played all year with bad ankles. With all of those injuries and having to play 2-gap 3-technique every play in a 4-3 defense, that's pretty damn good. He was the #1 interior DL for the B1G10 in 2018, so all of this crap about trying to find fault in his game or calling him a project is not accurate whatsoever. He had 40 tackles/23 solo, 13 TFL, and 8.5 sacks in 13 games.

    His best play last night was vs. the run!

    https://twitter.com/JoRo_NFL/status/1157124590486917120

    He plays high and fast so some automatically say he's undersized and doesn't keep pads low enough. He's been a starter at Saint Ignatius, a national powerhouse, then he was productive for 3 years at tOSU.
    If a split front DT is playing 2 gap, shouldn't he be lined up as a 2 tech?

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by samparnell View Post
    If a split front DT is playing 2 gap, shouldn't he be lined up as a 2 tech?
    That's what I was thinking as well

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buckeye Bronco View Post
    How was his leverage "always" below par? PFF gave him an 86.2 grade vs. the run for 2018. That's the same year they lost Nick Bosa and Chase Young played all year with bad ankles. With all of those injuries and having to play 2-gap 3-technique every play in a 4-3 defense, that's pretty damn good. He was the #1 interior DL for the B1G10 in 2018, so all of this crap about trying to find fault in his game or calling him a project is not accurate whatsoever. He had 40 tackles/23 solo, 13 TFL, and 8.5 sacks in 13 games.

    His best play last night was vs. the run!

    https://twitter.com/JoRo_NFL/status/1157124590486917120

    He plays high and fast so some automatically say he's undersized and doesn't keep pads low enough. He's been a starter at Saint Ignatius, a national powerhouse, then he was productive for 3 years at tOSU.
    His best play he didnít even get blocked.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by beastlyskronk View Post
    Jones didnít start playing well until the bottom of the barrel came in for the Falcons. He didnít stand out at all against the 2nd unit. Either way he did show some good signs last night and this should build his confidence moving forward.
    Iím with you on this. He didnít really show me anything early on but rather against 3rd string or players that prob wonít make a team. Good first game in a game thatís known to be sloppy

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