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  1. #451
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    Quote Originally Posted by 58Miller View Post
    Yes he does need to be coddled imo. David Carr is an example of a guy thrown in the fire. And you saying he can win 4 games is just another example why he should wait. Let him practice week to week, watch game film, see the speed of the NFL. It worked great with Patrick Mahomes, and Aaron Rodgers. And like I said once were out of playoff contention, get him some playing time. Their is zero reason to rush right now, and Joe Flacco is respected by the players on this team Drew Lock has to earn their respect.
    Sounds like you might not understand his background.

  2. #452
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butler By'Note View Post
    That's a scalding hot take. But I have to disagree with most of it. I would also questions who cares about the players abilities deep on the depth chart? Players 54-90 will be cut on Aug 31st. Whether they can do your basics or not they will be unemployed. And the good news is that players 54-90 on every roster will be cut, so if you feel like some other team's 56th player does something better than your 52nd player, you can release them and sign the other player.

    Depth is the most overblown thing in the preseason. People get all upset because the third string is getting hammered by someone else's third string. But most of those players will be out of the league, and you're never going to have mass substitutions like that. The depth that matters is whether your 5th corner can come in and play well with 3-4 starting DBs when called upon? Can your 6th o-lineman step in without a noticeable drop-off if one of your starters is injured? That's depth, not how an entire unit of guys who will be unemployed in 11 days perform together.

    Great take...........
    http://s7.postimg.org/hjr8fcmaz/EM2.jpg

    Adopted Bronco: Andy Janovich

  3. #453
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
    Sounds like you might not understand his background.
    i coddled my kids til they were old enough to do stuff on their own - eat, walk, talk, lose the diapers etc.
    I donít care about his background
    I want the kid to be out Qb for the next 10 to 15 years not another guy ran out to save the franchise. He needs to sit and learn. We have a starting QB in Flacco, no need to rush the kid.

  4. #454
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    Quote Originally Posted by 58Miller View Post
    i coddled my kids til they were old enough to do stuff on their own - eat, walk, talk, lose the diapers etc.
    I donít care about his background
    I want the kid to be out Qb for the next 10 to 15 years not another guy ran out to save the franchise. He needs to sit and learn. We have a starting QB in Flacco, no need to rush the kid.
    Since you donít care about his background, you donít have enough knowledge to know what he needs.

  5. #455
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    Quote Originally Posted by 58Miller View Post
    i coddled my kids til they were old enough to do stuff on their own - eat, walk, talk, lose the diapers etc.
    I donít care about his background
    I want the kid to be out Qb for the next 10 to 15 years not another guy ran out to save the franchise. He needs to sit and learn. We have a starting QB in Flacco, no need to rush the kid.
    Yet the QBs who bust most often are the QBs who start less than 4 games their rookie years. I dont know where this narrative that playing early is bad for QBs, if anything it is the most significant catalyst for growth and development.

    Mahomes, the only early-round QB in the last 10 years to not bust after playing in less than 4 games as a rookie even said he learned more in his 1 game starting as a rookie than the rest of the year behind Alex Smith.

    If you want a guy to he your face of the franchise guy, your decade long starter, you have to get him playing time asap. If he isnt mentally fit to handle the inconsistent highs and lows of being a young player, then he wasn't worth his salt anyway. The ones who are, will respond; they will adapt, learn, and grow as a QB through each mistake on the field. That is not learned in 7 on 7s in shells.

  6. #456
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    Quote Originally Posted by Papa-pwn View Post
    Yet the QBs who bust most often are the QBs who start less than 4 games their rookie years. I dont know where this narrative that playing early is bad for QBs, if anything it is the most significant catalyst for growth and development.

    Mahomes, the only early-round QB in the last 10 years to not bust after playing in less than 4 games as a rookie even said he learned more in his 1 game starting as a rookie than the rest of the year behind Alex Smith.

    If you want a guy to he your face of the franchise guy, your decade long starter, you have to get him playing time asap. If he isnt mentally fit to handle the inconsistent highs and lows of being a young player, then he wasn't worth his salt anyway. The ones who are, will respond; they will adapt, learn, and grow as a QB through each mistake on the field. That is not learned in 7 on 7s in shells.
    We donít need him to start yet, and some QBs turn out ok if they sit first.
    These guys have turned out ok.
    Aaron Rodgers
    Tom Brady
    Pat Mahomes
    Drew Brees
    Phillip Rivers
    Last edited by 58Miller; 08-20-2019 at 05:19 PM.

  7. #457
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
    Since you donít care about his background, you donít have enough knowledge to know what he needs.
    Iím definitely notqualified, but seems like the Broncos want to allow the kid to grow and arenít ready to throw him to the wolves just yet.
    Last edited by 58Miller; 08-20-2019 at 05:20 PM.

  8. #458
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    Quote Originally Posted by 58Miller View Post
    Iím definitely notqualified, but seems like the Broncos want to allow the kid to grow and arenít ready to throw him to the wolves just yet.
    You said he needed to be coddled, not the Broncos. If heís named the #2, which is likely depending on the severity of his injury, heíll need to be ready to takeover as soon as the season opener. If you knew more about his background you might have a different take on ďcoddlingĒ. As far as the Broncos, Fangio hasnít sugar coated his comments about Lock. Lock has responded positively so that should address any opinion about coddling.
    Last edited by Fantaztic7; 08-20-2019 at 05:44 PM.

  9. #459
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
    You said he needed to be coddled, not the Broncos.
    Your totally right.

    I guess I just view developing a young talent, who could and would be thrown into the fire immediately as being coddled, and I donít view it as a bad thing.

    Coddled - meaning to treat in an overprotective way.

    What I think the time sitting will help:
    - Lock can truly understand our offense
    - he can watch Flacco and the rest of the starters learn what works and doesnít and he wonít pay the price
    - the coaches will be able to see what plays best fit Locks abilities
    - he can build chemistry and gain the teams respect over a season

    This is a new offense for everyone on this team why throw a young QB in there and make him learn with everyone else. Stoked we have Flacco.
    Depending on how Flacco plays and Lock picks up everything we have a 1to 3 year window before we have to put Lock out there.

  10. #460
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butler By'Note View Post
    That's a scalding hot take. But I have to disagree with most of it. I would also questions who cares about the players abilities deep on the depth chart? Players 54-90 will be cut on Aug 31st. Whether they can do your basics or not they will be unemployed. And the good news is that players 54-90 on every roster will be cut, so if you feel like some other team's 56th player does something better than your 52nd player, you can release them and sign the other player.

    Depth is the most overblown thing in the preseason. People get all upset because the third string is getting hammered by someone else's third string. But most of those players will be out of the league, and you're never going to have mass substitutions like that. The depth that matters is whether your 5th corner can come in and play well with 3-4 starting DBs when called upon? Can your 6th o-lineman step in without a noticeable drop-off if one of your starters is injured? That's depth, not how an entire unit of guys who will be unemployed in 11 days perform together.
    Have to spread it.
    My Boss is a Jewish Carpenter

  11. #461
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butler By'Note View Post
    Good to see the Bill Vinovich curse continuing. Denver doesn't win when he refs their games.
    I was curious how bad this "curse" was and did some detective work

    I used this link https://www.pro-football-reference.c...s/VinoBi0r.htm

    TEAM WIN LOSSES TIES
    49ers 5 6
    bears 3 8
    bengals 6 10
    bills 2 8
    broncos 3 8
    browns 2 11
    buccaneers 8 5
    cardinals 4 7
    chargers 11 6
    chiefs 11 5
    colts 7 7
    cowboys 10 7
    dolphins 3 8
    eagles 8 8
    falcons 12 6
    giants 7 3
    jaguars 2 8
    jets 4 7
    lions 7 4
    packers 8 7 1
    panthers 7 7
    patriots 9 4
    raiders 11 4
    rams 5 12
    ravens 3 6
    redskins 5 10
    saints 10 7
    seahawks 11 6
    steelers 11 3
    texans 9 10
    titans 7 5
    vikings 5 5 1

    This doesn't take in to account Home/Away or how bad a team is *past Browns teams* and his first three years were as a side-judge before he was a referee
    Sept. 10, 2006, Den@StL 10-18, Sept. 28, 2008, Den@K.C. 19-33, Nov. 16, 2014, Den@Stl 7-22 <--Broncos games I've attended

  12. #462
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    Quote Originally Posted by 58Miller View Post
    Your totally right.

    I guess I just view developing a young talent, who could and would be thrown into the fire immediately as being coddled, and I donít view it as a bad thing.

    Coddled - meaning to treat in an overprotective way.

    What I think the time sitting will help:
    - Lock can truly understand our offense
    - he can watch Flacco and the rest of the starters learn what works and doesnít and he wonít pay the price
    - the coaches will be able to see what plays best fit Locks abilities
    - he can build chemistry and gain the teams respect over a season

    This is a new offense for everyone on this team why throw a young QB in there and make him learn with everyone else. Stoked we have Flacco.
    Depending on how Flacco plays and Lock picks up everything we have a 1to 3 year window before we have to put Lock out there.
    Weíve observed how quickly Lock is learning the offense by improving every week since the Hall of Fame game. Imagine not applying what he learned in live game action - thatís where you apply the learning. Now think about where he would be with playing every snap. Flacco will be the starter but we know it only takes one play to end his season. Lock doesnít need to be coddled due to the adversity heís faced. In fact, the throw he made after the injury said a lot about his leadership.

  13. #463
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butler By'Note View Post
    That's a scalding hot take. But I have to disagree with most of it. I would also questions who cares about the players abilities deep on the depth chart? Players 54-90 will be cut on Aug 31st. Whether they can do your basics or not they will be unemployed. And the good news is that players 54-90 on every roster will be cut, so if you feel like some other team's 56th player does something better than your 52nd player, you can release them and sign the other player.

    Depth is the most overblown thing in the preseason. People get all upset because the third string is getting hammered by someone else's third string. But most of those players will be out of the league, and you're never going to have mass substitutions like that. The depth that matters is whether your 5th corner can come in and play well with 3-4 starting DBs when called upon? Can your 6th o-lineman step in without a noticeable drop-off if one of your starters is injured? That's depth, not how an entire unit of guys who will be unemployed in 11 days perform together.
    Great perspective!

    Now, go get on a plane to Denver to coach Special Teams. Need a bit of help there!

  14. #464
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
    Weíve observed how quickly Lock is learning the offense by improving every week since the Hall of Fame game. Imagine not applying what he learned in live game action - thatís where you apply the learning. Now think about where he would be with playing every snap. Flacco will be the starter but we know it only takes one play to end his season. Lock doesnít need to be coddled due to the adversity heís faced. In fact, the throw he made after the injury said a lot about his leadership.
    I didnít say thatís why i wanted him coddled, i want him to be our QB of the future and this offense will go through a learning process under a first year OC. Let all that play out and then let Lock play.

  15. #465
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    Quote Originally Posted by Papa-pwn View Post
    Yet the QBs who bust most often are the QBs who start less than 4 games their rookie years. I dont know where this narrative that playing early is bad for QBs, if anything it is the most significant catalyst for growth and development.

    Mahomes, the only early-round QB in the last 10 years to not bust after playing in less than 4 games as a rookie even said he learned more in his 1 game starting as a rookie than the rest of the year behind Alex Smith.

    If you want a guy to he your face of the franchise guy, your decade long starter, you have to get him playing time asap. If he isnt mentally fit to handle the inconsistent highs and lows of being a young player, then he wasn't worth his salt anyway. The ones who are, will respond; they will adapt, learn, and grow as a QB through each mistake on the field. That is not learned in 7 on 7s in shells.
    During the common draft era (back to 1960s).... 71 QBs selected in top 10 picks.... 69 of them started at least 1 game their rookie year. Only Carson Palmer and Kelly Stoufer didnít start a single game their rookie years.

    Palmer won Heisman and shouldíve started... but we are talking about the Bengals. Stouffer refused to sign with St Louis.

    The myth of the red shirt year not applicable to lottery QBs.

    So, like Rodgers, Brees and Russell.... better to be drafted outside lottery, with lower expectations?

    If Drew Lock is selected with the 10th pick (instead of top of second round).... does this stunt his development?

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