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  1. #1006
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spice 1 View Post
    I agree with all of that. I'm just a hopeless optimist where precedent is concerned. It's an exercise in defiance.
    You're cool dude!!!

  2. #1007
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanDB View Post
    Bronx....I have to be real, I am not in your court on this. This should not be world news, but in the sports world it deserves the attention it gets. it was so ugly that Garrett's own QB was very disappointed about it. It left a kick in the gut to the league, and to all who play this great game. It looked violent, and this in a sport that I describe as violent, as is.

    I disagree that it was a soft blow to his head. Garrett swung it with intention. it was a hard blow. And what many people are often wrong about, is defining a crime by the injury and not the intent. I always say, if you shoot a gun and miss someone, does that make you any less guilty? I say NO. It's the intent. It's always the intent. Some people don't seem to get that.
    There just needs to be some common sense perspective applied, I was watching NBC's pro football talk show earlier that we get over here and the guest (not sure who, its normally Simms but someone else was on) was arguing my thoughts on this (and it was refreshing to here someone not blowing things out of all proportion.)

    He agreed it was wrong of MG, there is no place for it on the field, and even in a violent sport extra curricular stuff like that should not happen. He said MG should be banned for the rest of the season. I agreed with him completely, he needed to be punished and has been.

    This person was then asked if things need to go further, like jail time or a ban for life from football. He said to stop being so ridiculous, which were my thoughts on it.

    I'm happy for the league to come down hard on him like a season suspension, but if anyone starts suggesting ridiculous punishments like the ones I mentioned then I can't take them seriously, that sort of over the top reaction by some sections of society is just embarrassing.

    I get the media sensationalize everything (like 'brutal brawl that is life threatening' headlines ) because it makes them money, I just hope that regular people are not such drama merchants and have some common sense and perspective, and I think the vast majority do to be fair.

  3. #1008
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanDB View Post
    Bronx....I have to be real, I am not in your court on this. This should not be world news, but in the sports world it deserves the attention it gets. it was so ugly that Garrett's own QB was very disappointed about it. It left a kick in the gut to the league, and to all who play this great game. It looked violent, and this in a sport that I describe as violent, as is.

    I disagree that it was a soft blow to his head. Garrett swung it with intention. it was a hard blow. And what many people are often wrong about, is defining a crime by the injury and not the intent. I always say, if you shoot a gun and miss someone, does that make you any less guilty? I say NO. It's the intent. It's always the intent. Some people don't seem to get that.
    Comparing what he did to someone shooting a gun at someone is kinda my point about massive over the top reactions.

  4. #1009
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peanut View Post
    I totally agree with this. I was trying to find a polite way to respond and was failing. So thank you, Can, for posting this.
    I, probably like you, have heard hundreds of arguments in sports alone, for why someone should get a lesser sentence because no one was seriously injured. I do not understand that chain of thought. In the example I gave above, though I prefer not to talk about someone shooting at someone else, is it less offensive that one is a poor shot?? For me there should be the exact same punishment attached to wrongful intent. Same goes for all sorts of examples....you try to rob a bank and you fail. Same intent. Plenty more example...

    Intent is the only way to judge a situation.

    Similarly, and conversely speaking.....say a person accidentally harms someone. If we go by the outcome, some would want to punish the individual. But if all the facts are sorted, and it was completely accidental/unintentional/unfortunate, that person deserves little if any punishment. I am sure they would suffer for years for what they were involved with, and that would be more punishment than they probably deserve.

    Now....there may be legitimate exceptions to this, though I can not think of much too offer from that side of things.
    Last edited by CanDB; 11-15-2019 at 01:53 PM.

  5. #1010
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    Quote Originally Posted by bronx_2003 View Post
    Comparing what he did to someone shooting a gun at someone is kinda my point about massive over the top reactions.
    Bronx...that's just an obvious example of what I was trying to illuminate. it is not what happened last night. HOWEVER, I would go so far to say that, if he hit Rudolph's head squarely, he could have hurt him quite badly. He swung with a high degree of force. His intent was to hit Rudolph with a bluntness that would definitely hurt me to some extent, perhaps to a high degree of injury.

    You don't think a huge, powerful, athletic man, swinging a helmet with force, could not hurt someone??

  6. #1011
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanDB View Post
    I, probably like you, have heard hundreds of arguments in sports alone, for why someone should get a lesser sentence because no one was seriously injured. I do not understand that chain of thought. In the example I gave above, though I prefer not to talk about someone shooting at someone else, is it less offensive that one is a poor shot?? For me there should be the exact same punishment attached to wrongful intent. Same goes for all sorts of example....you try to rob a bank and you fail. Same intent. Plenty more.

    Intent is the only way to judge a situation.

    Similarly, and conversely speaking.....say a person accidentally harms someone. If we go by the outcome, some would want to punish the individual. But if all the facts are sorted, and it was completely accidental/unintentional/unfortunate, that person deserves little if any punishment. I am sure they would suffer for years for what they were involved with, and that would be more punishment than they probably deserve.
    The law is not all about intent. If a driver shoots through a light because he is talking to a passenger and not concentrating, and runs someone down and kills them then he would be be charged with manslaughter and serve a hefty prison sentence, even though there was no intent on harming anyone.

  7. #1012
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanDB View Post
    Bronx...that's just an obvious example of what I was trying to illuminate. it is not what happened last night. HOWEVER, I would go so far to say that, if he hit Rudolph's head squarely, he could have hurt him quite badly. He swung with a high degree of force. His intent was to hit Rudolph with a bluntness that would definitely hurt me to some extent, perhaps to a high degree of injury.
    Lets get down to how you really define this 'vicious assault'

    1 - Would you give him a life ban from football, or even ban him the whole of next season ?

    2 - Do you think he should face legal action / jail time ?

  8. #1013
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    Quote Originally Posted by bronx_2003 View Post
    Lets get down to how you really define this 'vicious assault'

    1 - Would you give him a life ban from football, or even ban him the whole of next season ?

    2 - Do you think he should face legal action / jail time ?
    I actually think, and don't get me wrong, that you are over reacting a bit to what many of us are saying. The people I have heard seem to be on the same wavelength, other than the usual extremes. I hear it like this:
    - It was ugly
    - it was not something you tend to see in a football game
    - Garrett deserves a lengthy suspension, most likely to the end of this season
    - Pouncey should get some suspension for kicking at Garrett's head
    - Garrett let down his entire team by his stupidity. As the coach said, although Garrett understands what he did, he ruined it for all his team, who put In the work and will be basically ignored for what he did. And wins do not come easy.

    But Bronx, I never said anything about a lifetime ban, or even next season. As for legal action, I sort of doubt it will go there. Lets just say, lets see how the league handles it, and how Rudolph and The Steelers react to it. I am not thinking legal stuff, but I am not them.

  9. #1014
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanDB View Post
    I actually think, and don't get me wrong, that you are over reacting a bit to what many of us are saying. The people I have heard seem to be on the same wavelength, other than the usual extremes. I hear it like this:
    - It was ugly
    - it was not something you tend to see in a football game
    - Garrett deserves a lengthy suspension, most likely to the end of this season
    - Pouncey should get some suspension for kicking at Garrett's head
    - Garrett let down his entire team by his stupidity. As the coach said, although Garrett understands what he did, he ruined it for all his team, who put In the work and will be basically ignored for what he did. And wins do not come easy.

    But Bronx, I never said anything about a lifetime ban, or even next season. As for legal action, I sort of doubt it will go there. Lets just say, lets see how the league handles it, and how Rudolph and The Steelers react to it. I am not thinking legal stuff, but I am not them.
    So we pretty much agree.

    It just made me laugh when I looked at some reporter twitter accounts and then watched NBC football show and there were suggestions of all kinds of crazy punishments that went a bit too far.

    I guess I'm just an old fashioned type of person who believes that too much nowadays is over-reacted to and our human skill of common sense is slowly declining over time.

  10. #1015
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    Quote Originally Posted by bronx_2003 View Post
    The law is not all about intent. If a driver shoots through a light because he is talking to a passenger and not concentrating, and runs someone down and kills them then he would be be charged with manslaughter and serve a hefty prison sentence, even though there was no intent on harming anyone.
    I mentioned there are exceptions, though it was after I revised a few of my grammar thingies. You make a point. But here's how I will respond. When you drive a car, it is understandably a powerful potential weapon. If you do not drive smartly, the perils can be immense. Multiple car accidents, death, destruction. That's part of the insurance thing. Vehicles are wonderful, but there is a responsibility to drive properly, because mistakes can be deadly. So the word "intent" is not exactly harmonious with this theme I present, but I would describe it as this...you MUST drive with proper Intent, otherwise you should not drive. If you are texting or drunk or not paying attention...you're intent was wrongful.

  11. #1016
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    Quote Originally Posted by bronx_2003 View Post
    So we pretty much agree.

    It just made me laugh when I looked at some reporter twitter accounts and then watched NBC football show and there were suggestions of all kinds of crazy punishments that went a bit too far.

    I guess I'm just an old fashioned type of person who believes that too much nowadays is over-reacted to and our human skill of common sense is slowly declining over time.
    You know what Bronx....I do side with you on the way the world reacts nowadays. Not trying to call you out for it. Though you are probably very right that some will overplay this, want Garrett locked up in jail, etc.....I do think most of the calmer folks will see it fairly similarly. I think you and I can agree that it tainted the game, and it tainted his own team....and it was because of his actions.

    Be cool my friend!

  12. #1017
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanDB View Post
    You know what Bronx....I do side with you on the way the world reacts nowadays. Not trying to call you out for it. Though you are probably very right that some will overplay this, want Garrett locked up in jail, etc.....I do think most of the calmer folks will see it fairly similarly. I think you and I can agree that it tainted the game, and it tainted his own team....and it was because of his actions.

    Be cool my friend!
    You too bro

    Regarding the game I thought both teams looked pretty bad, which is understandable with the Steelers (no Ben, AB, or Bell around for various reasons), injuries, young QB who is struggling.... but the Browns have a lot of talent but just don't produce.

    It was completely opposite to that fantastic game the other night where both SF and Seattle played quality football and both looked really good.

  13. #1018
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    Quote Originally Posted by bronx_2003 View Post
    You too bro

    Regarding the game I thought both teams looked pretty bad, which is understandable with the Steelers (no Ben, AB, or Bell around for various reasons), injuries, young QB who is struggling.... but the Browns have a lot of talent but just don't produce.

    It was completely opposite to that fantastic game the other night where both SF and Seattle played quality football and both looked really good.
    I know. And I hate to say it, but if not for that "mess" at the end, it was a game most would forget as the flicked the tv channels. It was boring to me. I had reason to watch, with 2 fantasy players, but even there it was so so, as JuJu got injured early.

    Yeah....that was a lousy one, and I am not surprised. Mayfield has regressed, on a mixed bag of a team, and The Steelers were injured and led by a QB needing development.

    As for San Fran/Seattle....that was fun, though I was hoping for SF. And lets be clear, when do you ever get a soft performance from Russell Wilson? I am not even a big fan of his, though I like the guy. But cmon, you get your money's worth with that dude!

  14. #1019
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    Quote Originally Posted by broncolee View Post
    They’re saying he has to talk to Goodell before he can even play next year.

    I’m sure he’ll say the right things but being banned for the rest of this season, including the playoffs, is a big deal.
    Thatís just protocol, to my knowledge the only player I can remember not being reinstated was Justin Blackmon. Garrett will do some anger management classes and probably a few speeches and heíll be reinstated. The Browns arenít making the playoffs so itíll be a 6 game suspension.

    I just donít think thatís enough for the situation. The late hit isnít an outlier for him, Rudolph was just the first one to react and thatís where Garrett went with it. I think the rest of this season and at least 8 games next season would suffice. If Garrett had that helmet flipped around, it wouldíve did a lot more damage, Rudolph was lucky to catch some of the padding especially after recently coming back from a concussion.

  15. #1020
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    Quote Originally Posted by beastlyskronk View Post
    Thatís just protocol, to my knowledge the only player I can remember not being reinstated was Justin Blackmon. Garrett will do some anger management classes and probably a few speeches and heíll be reinstated. The Browns arenít making the playoffs so itíll be a 6 game suspension.

    I just donít think thatís enough for the situation. The late hit isnít an outlier for him, Rudolph was just the first one to react and thatís where Garrett went with it. I think the rest of this season and at least 8 games next season would suffice. If Garrett had that helmet flipped around, it wouldíve did a lot more damage, Rudolph was lucky to catch some of the padding especially after recently coming back from a concussion.
    The whole situation was instigated by Rudolph and various Steeles players - trying to rip off Garrett,'s helmet when he was defenceless on the ground; punching him, holding him, kicking him. Rudolph not content with this tried to go up to Garrett when other players were breaking up the fight and carry it on. Garrett reacted. He reacted emotionally. He reacted without thinking about the consequences of his actions. He reacted stupidly and dangerously.

    For this Garrett's suspension to the end of the season is probably correct. No matter what the provocation his reaction was inexcusable. It would have been better had he just taken a swing at Rudolph rather than use a helmet. Of course it would have been even better had he realised before reacting that he is a top pro footballer; that he has teamates; that he was letting them down, and just walked away.

    However...

    This does not excuse Pouncey (who has also been properly punished) and it absolutely does not excuse Rudolph whose actions were a total disgrace. I fail to see how the NFL can look at video of the entire incident and say that Rudolph only deserves a fine.

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