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  1. #691
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    Quote Originally Posted by dizzolve View Post
    Not sure why I thought he was. Was he a packer last season too

    He looks like a strong receiver to me yet he lacked in athleticism ehh? He's naturally big. Add heart to that and you can get stuff done
    Yeah he was undrafted which surprised me and went to the jags before the packers picked him up late last season. But him and Joel lanning were the glue for Iowa state team. Glad he finally got a chance and did well. Hopefully her gets more chances to make a name for himself.

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  2. #692
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    One last word on last night's game. Although I am still a bit of a Packers fan (and yes, I understand many do not care for Rodgers), but I am not sure where this team ends up. Got some help last night, though we will never know for sure if they still win the game, given they might have got a FG, but with a minute or more still on the clock. There were other questionable calls. But as we all know, "questionable" is more than just a theme with officiating these days.

    But The Pack are in first place, and once Adams returns, and as long as the RBs stay healthy, they might be tough down the road. Because their D seems stronger than in recent years. And it's hard to say what Minnesota will do, as well as Chicago and Detroit. One would think that Chicago and Minnie would be better going into the season.

    So like them or not, and bad calls or not, The Pack might win that division, and if they do, they deserve it in my books.

  3. #693
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    They deserve it? I can't go there. They should be 3--3 at best.

    Red 98

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  4. #694
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    Quote Originally Posted by dizzolve View Post
    They deserve it? I can't go there. They should be 3--3 at best.

    dizz….this may change nothing in your comment, but when I said they deserve it, it was in reference to "if they win the division". I use overall wins and losses as a barometer of success, because it's the truest form of measurement given the info we have. FTR, I did not mean they deserved last night's victory, though even a bad call does not guarantee a win or a loss, unless it's right near the end of the game.

  5. #695
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    Its soooooooo frustrating seeing this every week, I had no concern who won and just wanted to see a good game but the Lions played hard all night in a tough environment and got completely screwed over by the refs. It wasn't just the terrible call at the end, it was constant ticky tack calls all night such as JG slipping down and the Lions getting called for a penalty after a big third down stop.

    I tuned in to watch a great game and all I felt afterwards is it was another game the refs determined.

    I generally like the Pack and cheered them on the week before in Dallas but I am getting sick of the refs determining games in this league and getting away with it.

  6. #696
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    Quote Originally Posted by bronx_2003 View Post
    Its soooooooo frustrating seeing this every week, I had no concern who won and just wanted to see a good game but the Lions played hard all night in a tough environment and got completely screwed over by the refs. It wasn't just the terrible call at the end, it was constant ticky tack calls all night such as JG slipping down and the Lions getting called for a penalty after a big third down stop.

    I tuned in to watch a great game and all I felt afterwards is it was another game the refs determined.

    I generally like the Pack and cheered them on the week before in Dallas but I am getting sick of the refs determining games in this league and getting away with it.
    Bronx....this has been my sentiment for this year and going back a year or more. Some games drive me nutso, because when you see that yellow flag come flying in on almost every play, you lose interest in the game itself.

    And even worse (for me) when a team I like stops another on 3rd down, only to wait a second or two for some PI or roughing call to come in. And this can happen in consecutive 3 down blocks, and in key situations. I am sick and tired of PI and Roughing!!

    And one of the PIs I detest just happened on a Sunday game I was watching. I think it was 3rd and 27, and a simple PI automatically makes it a first down. It was some minor brush as I recall, and it was near the line of scrimmage, unlike a more fluid pass play. Further, I believe it was a 5 yard penalty....BUT again, first flippin down! That rule has to change. Make it a 5 yard penalty and repeat the down.

    So....do you coach players in 3rd and long to stay away from receivers?? NO WAY! That's not how you play the game. Because if you do, that 27 yarder becomes more highly possible. You can't give elite athletes a free pass.
    Last edited by CanDB; 10-15-2019 at 11:19 AM.

  7. #697
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanDB View Post
    Bronx....this has been my sentiment for this year and going back a year or more. Some games drive me nutso, because when you see that yellow flag come flying in on almost every play, you lose interest in the game itself.

    And even worse (for me) when a team I like stops another on 3rd down, only to wait a second or two for some PI or roughing call to come in. And this can happen in consecutive 3 down blocks, and in key situations. I am sick and tired of PI and Roughing!!

    And one of the PIs I detest just happened on a Sunday game I was watching. I think it was 3rd and 27, and a simple PI automatically makes it a first down. It was some minor brush as I recall, and it was near the line of scrimmage, unlike a more fluid pass play. Further, I believe it was a 5 yard penalty....BUT again, first flippin down! That rule has to change. Make it a 5 yard penalty and repeat the down.

    So....do you coach players in 3rd and long to stay away from receivers?? NO WAY! That's not how you play the game. Because if you do, that 27 yarder becomes more highly possible. You can't give elite athletes a free pass.
    Yea I agree, and I don't mean it as a knock against the Packers because I know you like them but its just sooooo frustrating to see this happen every week.

    The refs screw up far too often and its unacceptable in a major league, my only sympathy for them are the amount of rules that are put in place every year that does make it tough on them.

    I watch quite a few different sports and the NFL is the only one where I see referees decide games on a regular basis.

  8. #698
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    Quote Originally Posted by bronx_2003 View Post
    Yea I agree, and I don't mean it as a knock against the Packers because I know you like them but its just sooooo frustrating to see this happen every week.

    The refs screw up far too often and its unacceptable in a major league, my only sympathy for them are the amount of rules that are put in place every year that does make it tough on them.

    I watch quite a few different sports and the NFL is the only one where I see referees decide games on a regular basis.
    No worries about The Pack. I like them but I am not big on having refs unevenly determine things. Sure, most of us are happy when our teams win, and will often forget when calls/bounces go our way....but in general, I want this league to smarten up its officiating. It is ironic though, that for the first part of last night's game, I thought they were doing a good job!!

    The refs are to blame, but the league apparently is more to blame, because they are setting the tone and the guidance for the refs to follow. They push certain rules, and they often over-emphasize. Safety is definitely part of it, and will not go away. That's good, but we also know that The NFL does not like liability. So they will reach too far, to the point that a good, clean hit will be penalized, because of how hard it was. That happened on the low pass to The Packer receiver, when the Lions' Dback simply followed thru with the play. No penalty required, but the player looked hurt.

    I think we all respect the safety issue. But if you penalize players for playing as trained, all their lives, you risk them getting injured by having them hesitate or take poor angles before contact.

  9. #699
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanDB View Post
    No worries about The Pack. I like them but I am not big on having refs unevenly determine things. Sure, most of us are happy when our teams win, and will often forget when calls/bounces go our way....but in general, I want this league to smarten up its officiating. It is ironic though, that for the first part of last night's game, I thought they were doing a good job!!

    The refs are to blame, but the league apparently is more to blame, because they are setting the tone and the guidance for the refs to follow. They push certain rules, and they often over-emphasize. Safety is definitely part of it, and will not go away. That's good, but we also know that The NFL does not like liability. So they will reach too far, to the point that a good, clean hit will be penalized, because of how hard it was. That happened on the low pass to The Packer receiver, when the Lions' Dback simply followed thru with the play. No penalty required, but the player looked hurt.

    I think we all respect the safety issue. But if you penalize players for playing as trained, all their lives, you risk them getting injured by having them hesitate or take poor angles before contact.
    Yep hopefully it gets better at some point.

    As a side note I need an NHL team for my accumulator, who do you think is more likely to win tonight - The Maple Leafs at home to the Wild or the Jets at home to the Coyotes ?

  10. #700
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    I found this discussion even more disconcerting.

    How can these refs improve when the rules change every year.

    I did like one thought Mike Pereira had. Having some kind of technology ref up in the booth who can use common sense and replay to make sure bad errors are avoided. That's his only job. Like to me it sounded like a Veto powered ref who could just guide a game from getting out of hand. OMG listen to that....... like someone to hold their hands. But it's needed evidently.

    Refs probably look at being 'good at what you do' as finding all the fouls that happen and calling them to a T. But there's a certain amount of common sense needed too. Late in games you don't want to be anywhere NEAR deciding a game. You'd better be RIGHT if you're throwing your flag. Mike said these new refs being able to rely on replay allows them to not feel as responsible for throwing that flag. -- or not throwing one.

    Maybe an Overseer ref who could just keep the train on the rails ......... in the spirit of NFL Football could keep things from just being given away. And give him the power to say Hey - that penalty isn't hands to the face. Need to pick that flag up.

    These challenge rules just muddy the waters
    Red 98

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  11. #701
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    Quote Originally Posted by bronx_2003 View Post
    Yep hopefully it gets better at some point.

    As a side note I need an NHL team for my accumulator, who do you think is more likely to win tonight - The Maple Leafs at home to the Wild or the Jets at home to the Coyotes ?
    Good question, and given I am in Winnipeg, I might have something to offer......but I am not sure!!

    Lets just say I expect both Toronto and Winnipeg to win. But here's the thing....The Coyotes are ranked 26th, and The Wild are ranked 31st! Both playing bad.

    So I'd lean to Toronto to win for sure, but wow, my Jets are also a high win probability.

    Not sure I even helped!!!

    (hey pal...I think I did poorly last time you asked me to pick teams!! Sorry!)

  12. #702
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanDB View Post
    dizz….this may change nothing in your comment, but when I said they deserve it, it was in reference to "if they win the division". I use overall wins and losses as a barometer of success, because it's the truest form of measurement given the info we have. FTR, I did not mean they deserved last night's victory, though even a bad call does not guarantee a win or a loss, unless it's right near the end of the game.
    I see what you meant now.
    Red 98

    The early bird may get the worm, but the 2nd mouse gets the cheese

  13. #703
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    Quote Originally Posted by dizzolve View Post
    I see what you meant now.
    thx pal.....sometimes I confuse, if I post quickly. But no doubt, The Pack had an extra man or two on the field in the 2nd half, the striped ones.

    As you, me and so many keep saying, the officiating has got to change!!! Not just the refs though....the rules, the guidance from the league, the purpose of the game. And I'll repeat with as much sensitivity as I have, given how important it is....safety has to be #1 priority, BUT, it's an excuse to lay it all on safety, because that's a cop out. Safety definitely should mean preventing players from taking direct hits to the head, or as a QB, to the legs while in passing stance. We all know what safety equates to in football.

    But at some point we want players to play as they were trained and coached all their years. And that can unfortunately translate to injury. It's the nature of this physical game.

    And beyond safety, it seems to be the flavour of the month when it comes to their crackdown on specific types of penalties. Holding is up this year. Partly because coaches/GMs complain about it so much.

    But these little touches here and there are ridiculous. And common sense should be the primary source of thrown flags, not because the league is getting tough on something.

    For me however it comes down to 2 over abused use of flags.....pass Interference and roughing the passer. Note the word "pass". I believe it's about scoring. The league has this weird belief that higher scoring makes games more exciting, when in fact, it just drags games out, and drives are often more the result of flags than good plays. Which does in fact counter my theory a bit, if offensive holding is up. Not a perfect science.

    If I was a player in this league, I would not want to play Dback. When I played, I bent the rules as much as possible, to stay tight with a receiver. Hey, when you are not tall or really fast, you do what you can. Quickness, timing and staying "close" works pretty good. But I'd be called regularly in this league.

    As for roughing the passer....I am sick of seeing defenders make outstanding plays to get to the passer, then make a textbook tackle, and even release when going down, to lessen the blow, only to be penalized. That must drive those poor guys crazy!!!
    Last edited by CanDB; 10-15-2019 at 04:04 PM.

  14. #704
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    Spice knows what's up

    https://youtu.be/POzYboxXbq0

  15. #705
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    Josina Anderson looks like a frog with all that make up and nails on
    Red 98

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