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  1. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by Humberg View Post
    Ok. Another weekend, another loss. I've been a fan for 40 years and been through worse. But then again, I haven't. Sure I suffered through the Josh McD era, which was bad, but I knew it would get better. I suffered through the weak defenses of Shanny elder and that was frustrating but I knew it would get better. I even suffered through the teams of the later Dan Reeves era who couldn't play defense and couldn't run the ball because I knew it was going to get better. So it was interesting that I was really struggling with figuring out why these losses were bothering me so much and suddenly, tonight, it clicked. I don't know when this is going to get better because we have lack something we had in all of those previous eras.....accountability. But now...

    The Emperor Has No Clothes. Ok, so hear me out. I've been bothered because we do have some talent, and all I heard all off-season, and for the past 3 years actually, was that we just had to get some good coaches with some good philosophies and 1 or 2 players in place and we'd be running at the playoffs again. Well, bunk.

    We went out and got good coaches. And theoretically we have good philosophies from those coaches. We went out and got some players that we were told was good. The result? This team looks as bad if not worse than any team that Denver has fielded in the past 4 years. And what I was struggling with is how all of the pundits who said we'd have a top 10 defense with Fangio, how he was going to turn Chubb and Miller into a force never before seen in the NFL, and all of the experts who said with Munchak coaching our line we'd automatically have an upgrade, and all of those who were supposed to know who said Scangarello was one of the hot young minds in the NFL, how they all could have been wrong.

    It's obvious. I don't think they were wrong. In fact, I think they were exactly right. We absolutely would be all of those things IF, and it's a big IF....if the coaches and other hires were allowed to do their thing. What would that be? Well, it would be Fangio saying that he can't run his defense without a thumper inside and to stay put and draft Bush in the first round (and oh by the way Noah Fant and Drew Lock aren't top round talents). It's Scangers saying that he needs to open up this offense a bit but he can't because we lack a bonafide LT. It's someone saying we should cut Devonte Booker because he is the worst option of the RBs we have in training camp. Someone saying that Case Keenum was always going to be a backup QB and we shouldn't have tried. That Paxton was never going to play in the NFL and 1) don't draft him and 2) cut bait long before he had a chance to waste 3 training camps of QB battles.

    I think the problem is that nobody can stand up to Elway and tell him his ideas are stupid. He seems to be controlling things with an iron fist, Why else would good, sound NFL coaches with good reputations.....nay even THE BEST reputations in the NFL (Munchak) be playing and staying committed to Bolles? And you can see this same thing in the commitment to Paxton, in the commitment shown to VJ. Elway is slow to reverse course and nobody is slapping him in the face with his mistakes.

    This is what an organization looks like that has no accountability. None. Zero. Zilch. It's a dictatorship and the masses are subject to every whim, flight and fancy that the dictator gets a hold of. This never works. Its good people forced into bad situations that have to do stupid things because papa dictator says so. I don't know when this is going to get better because, unlike times past, there is no promise of accountability, which means I don't know when Bolles will stop playing LT, no matter how many holds he gets called for (and those he doesn't). This isn't death by inches, it's death by yards, 10 of them each time actually. And the only thing I can hope for is a coup to overthrow our dictator, which is exactly what it would feel like if the trust fired Elway right now, because the way things are set up it's almost inconceivable for them to do so. But we can hope, because that would at least take the gloves off. Fingers crossed.So I'm doing it....


    Bump until Elway gets fired.
    Well said.

    1) You are so right about prior down periods. We had reason to think they would only last a year. The current trajectory of the franchise is a MULTI-YEAR PERIOD OF WEAKNESS. I donít see a light at the end of the tunnel right now.
    2) Good coaches donít take jobs when the GM gets to be the face of the franchise.
    3) If you canít draft well as a GM, everything else unravels. Elway canít draft. The poor play we see now is a direct result of having two or three fewer Pro Bowlers on our roster compared to average NFL teams, and that is because of Elway. We simply donít have enough playmakers.
    4) Joe Ellis doesnít have the juice to fire Elway unless Broncos Country cries out that Elway is hurting our team. So I call on all Broncos fans to make some noise with the top brass to bring in a CAREER PERSONNEL PROFESSIONAL to be our GM.

  2. #182
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    I think if this team can't salvage an 8-8 season or at worst 7-9 with a long win streak to end the season, then Elway needs to step down from his role as GM or be fired. I'm sure there's plenty of roles he can have with this team that doesn't involve him evaluating or bringing in talent, because he's certainly failed at that for the past 4 seasons. But I can't see how he's not held accountable for how badly this team has fallen when he's now the only common denominator.

    And I say this as a once-staunch Elway defender and someone who thinks the world of him. But the bottom line is the bottom line, and right now this team is facing down the barrel of a possible 0-5 start. It's unfortunate because I like Vic Fangio and want him to succeed, and a new GM will likely want to start completely over. But it is what it is. At some point we have to be given a clear direction for this football team.

  3. #183
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    Nice post, Humberg.

  4. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by mojo0730 View Post
    I think if this team can't salvage an 8-8 season or at worst 7-9 with a long win streak to end the season, then Elway needs to step down from his role as GM or be fired. I'm sure there's plenty of roles he can have with this team that doesn't involve him evaluating or bringing in talent, because he's certainly failed at that for the past 4 seasons. But I can't see how he's not held accountable for how badly this team has fallen when he's now the only common denominator.

    And I say this as a once-staunch Elway defender and someone who thinks the world of him. But the bottom line is the bottom line, and right now this team is facing down the barrel of a possible 0-5 start. It's unfortunate because I like Vic Fangio and want him to succeed, and a new GM will likely want to start completely over. But it is what it is. At some point we have to be given a clear direction for this football team.
    Agree. Last season I said Elway should have this season. Iíve been one of the strong critics of Elway post-Manning. Itís fair to give him a chance after parting ways with VJ and making effort to improve the roster. At the same time he cannot get a pass - coaches, players and fans have paid the price. Itís time for Ellis to put Elway on notice (who knows, that might have already happened). On one hand it would seem good to keep Elway in some capacity. However, he would still be with the organization and could hinder the necessary changes by a new regime.
    Last edited by Fantaztic7; 09-16-2019 at 04:25 AM.

  5. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
    Agree. Last season I said Elway should have this season. Iíve been one of the strong critics of Elway post-Manning. Itís fair to give him a chance after parting ways with VJ and making effort to improve the roster. At the same time he cannot get a pass - coaches, players and fans have paid the price. Itís time for Ellis to put Elway on notice (who knows, that might have already happened). On one hand it would seem good to keep Elway in some capacity. However, he would still be with the organization and could hinder the necessary changes by a new regime.
    I donít foresee Elway accepting a role in the organization that didnít entail
    full control over on-the-field product. If Ellis offered Elway a figurehead role, Elway would rightly consider it a demotion. This only ends with a clean break.

  6. #186
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    The franchise is in a bad state. Elway built this. We can hope and pray that the last 2 drafts will yield a bunch of stars, but thatís a bit of a stretch and I question how many of them will be retained. Itís a bad team going in a bad direction.

  7. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by GiddyupGetEm View Post
    I donít foresee Elway accepting a role in the organization that didnít entail
    full control over on-the-field product. If Ellis offered Elway a figurehead role, Elway would rightly consider it a demotion. This only ends with a clean break.
    Not saying you implied it but I just have to say that no one will fire John Elway, but IM)O, he will walk if and when the Broncos lose at least 10 games.

    I donít believe Fangio is a good head coach at this point in time but I do believe heíll outlast both Eliss and Elway here in Denver.

  8. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam_Z View Post
    Not saying you implied it but I just have to say that no one will fire John Elway, but IM)O, he will walk if and when the Broncos lose at least 10 games.

    I don’t believe Fangio is a good head coach at this point in time but I do believe he’ll outlast both Eliss and Elway here in Denver.
    From your mouth to......

  9. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
    Agree. Last season I said Elway should have this season. I’ve been one of the strong critics of Elway post-Manning. It’s fair to give him a chance after parting ways with VJ and making effort to improve the roster. At the same time he cannot get a pass - coaches, players and fans have paid the price. It’s time for Ellis to put Elway on notice (who knows, that might have already happened). On one hand it would seem good to keep Elway in some capacity. However, he would still be with the organization and could hinder the necessary changes by a new regime.
    In all honesty Elway should have been let go after last season and not been given the chance to hire Fangio - his 4th head coach in 9 seasons. The reason being is that there's no way you can retain Elway in his current role if this team does not eek out an 8-8- record or better, which certainly looks impossible right now. And there's a high likelihood that a new GM wouldn't retain Fangio if we're 4-12/5-11/6-10, meaning this season would have been all for naught. And the fact is this team has been awful especially on offense for the better part of 5 years now, and that's through several different coordinators and 3 head coaches now. Again, Elway is the only common denominator.

    Love ya, John. Thank you for 3 Super Bowl championships. But you need to step aside.

  10. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by mojo0730 View Post
    In all honesty Elway should have been let go after last season and not been given the chance to hire Fangio - his 4th head coach in 9 seasons. The reason being is that there's no way you can retain Elway in his current role if this team does not eek out an 8-8- record or better, which certainly looks impossible right now. And there's a high likelihood that a new GM wouldn't retain Fangio if we're 4-12/5-11/6-10, meaning this season would have been all for naught. And the fact is this team has been awful especially on offense for the better part of 5 years now, and that's through several different coordinators and 3 head coaches now. Again, Elway is the only common denominator.

    Love ya, John. Thank you for 3 Super Bowl championships. But you need to step aside.
    And that is all most of us are trying to say even though most ppl loathe hearing it like the poster above ya but it needs to be heard and accepted.

    Nowhere is anyone being unfair in their criticism of John Elway at this point in time.

  11. #191
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    I'll be the guy to disagree with firing John Elway. I get everyone's frustration because I'm frustrated too but Elway has delivered 2 Super Bowl appearances with one win. What happened in SF after Steve Young retired? How about in Miami after Marino retired? I could go on and on but most franchises struggle after losing one of the best QBs of all time. Just wait and see what happens in NE when Brady retires and in NO when Brees hangs it up. There will be a big drop off, guaranteed. He has made some bad decisions but everyone forgets about the good ones he's made. We hopefully have our heir apparent in Lock and a nice bridge option in Flacco who has played well so far. He whiffed on Paxton Lynch but EVERYONE whiffed on him. Remember we traded up because Dallas wanted to draft him and he was going to be a first round bust for someone. Just turned out to be us.

    I don't think criticism of Elway is unfair but I do think alot of Bronco fans seem to have a short memory and easily forget everything he has done for the franchise since becoming GM.
    Proud resident of Broncos Country!!!

  12. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowman33 View Post
    I'll be the guy to disagree with firing John Elway. I get everyone's frustration because I'm frustrated too but Elway has delivered 2 Super Bowl appearances with one win. What happened in SF after Steve Young retired? How about in Miami after Marino retired? I could go on and on but most franchises struggle after losing one of the best QBs of all time. Just wait and see what happens in NE when Brady retires and in NO when Brees hangs it up. There will be a big drop off, guaranteed. He has made some bad decisions but everyone forgets about the good ones he's made. We hopefully have our heir apparent in Lock and a nice bridge option in Flacco who has played well so far. He whiffed on Paxton Lynch but EVERYONE whiffed on him. Remember we traded up because Dallas wanted to draft him and he was going to be a first round bust for someone. Just turned out to be us.

    I don't think criticism of Elway is unfair but I do think alot of Bronco fans seem to have a short memory and easily forget everything he has done for the franchise since becoming GM.
    Great posts!!
    Elway put together one of the greatest offenses and defenses. Then had to deal with paying everybody along with picking in the 30ís of the draft twice and 20ís three other years. But a lot people play madden so they know
    Exactly how to turn around a 4-12 franchise and keep it on top forever.

  13. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowman33 View Post
    I'll be the guy to disagree with firing John Elway. I get everyone's frustration because I'm frustrated too but Elway has delivered 2 Super Bowl appearances with one win. What happened in SF after Steve Young retired? How about in Miami after Marino retired? I could go on and on but most franchises struggle after losing one of the best QBs of all time. Just wait and see what happens in NE when Brady retires and in NO when Brees hangs it up. There will be a big drop off, guaranteed. He has made some bad decisions but everyone forgets about the good ones he's made. We hopefully have our heir apparent in Lock and a nice bridge option in Flacco who has played well so far. He whiffed on Paxton Lynch but EVERYONE whiffed on him. Remember we traded up because Dallas wanted to draft him and he was going to be a first round bust for someone. Just turned out to be us.

    I don't think criticism of Elway is unfair but I do think alot of Bronco fans seem to have a short memory and easily forget everything he has done for the franchise since becoming GM.
    No one will fire John Elway, but IM)O, he will walk if and when the Broncos lose at least 10 games.

  14. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam_Z View Post
    No one will fire John Elway, but IM)O, he will walk if and when the Broncos lose at least 10 games.
    Elway isnít a quitter!!

  15. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by 58Miller View Post
    Great posts!!
    Elway put together one of the greatest offenses and defenses. Then had to deal with paying everybody along with picking in the 30ís of the draft twice and 20ís three other years. But a lot people play madden so they know
    Exactly how to turn around a 4-12 franchise and keep it on top forever.
    As someone who has never played Madden, I can assure you that has nothing to do with my comments.

    My criticism of Elway is based on the fact that:
    1) Elway set the standard of ďwinning from now onĒ himself, and has failed to meet that standard.
    2) Elway has unquestionably drafted far below the NFL average since 2011, particularly in the vital 1st and 2nd rounders.
    3) Because Elway the player has a special place in peopleís hearts, fans do not given Elwayís failures an objective examination.
    4) Elwayís bad drafting was a source of concern even before Super Bowl 50, when myself and others stated on this board that his failure on so many picks is not sustainable for a winning team.

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