It really is time to move on.

[Sam_Z]

Completely agree. Letting Wade go was the beginning of this downfall. I’m still not over it, especially when I see what Joe Woods did and now Fangio. It’s hard to take.

Not sure why he didn’t want to hire Kyle. There had to be some kind of story there.

No more than he was just enamored with Vance “the leader of men” Joseph.

Wade was a leader of men but it’s ok because a reputation is now tarnished and there’s no getting around that!

[TheAsianPA]

Garrett Bolles over Ramzchk!

Spreading Flacco's cap hit so we could have 13 million this year for no one.

[Sam_Z]

Spreading Flacco's cap hit so we could have 13 million this year for no one.

True and he could’ve done that earlier in order to extend CHJ but no one forces John’s hand especially CHJ who I guess is a dime a dozen.

“In Elway we trust”

[FL BRONCO]

Garrett Bolles over Ramzchk!

Yep, I'm still steaming over that one. I couldn't believe when we did it.

[JvDub95]

Spreading Flacco's cap hit so we could have 13 million this year for no one.

I read that Denver and Simmons were in extension talks

[XterraRob]

You have got to be kidding right. That was a gutsy call and one of the best calls a GM has ever made. We won a SB because of it. And Manning was on the down side of his career period, it started last part of the year before. He should be looking at that second ring and having greats thoughts of John cause without that move, he wouldn't have a second ring.

Elway has earned some criticism for sure. Heck I'm tired of continuing to draft TE meanwhile our OL is a mess. But John has done some great things too. Getting rid of Fox and hiring Kubes was one of best things he has ever done period. The Denver Broncos won SB 50 because of it. SMH

Manning really wasn't.. you have to understand what happened midway through 2014 to understand why things trended down for him.

[L.M.]

Completely agree. Letting Wade go was the beginning of this downfall. I’m still not over it, especially when I see what Joe Woods did and now Fangio. It’s hard to take.

Not sure why he didn’t want to hire Kyle. There had to be some kind of story there.

There is. Matt Russell, director of player personnel, is Elway's chief advisor and VJ is one of his best friends from their time together at CU as both players and coaching assistants. He pushed hard on his friend's behalf with both Elway and Ellis.

And even if Kyle had been picked, it's likely that Joe Woods would have still been the DC because the FO felt that he was a "rising star", the coach of the No-Fly Zone, and they didn't want to lose him to another team. They figured that with most of the defensive SB roster intact and one of its position coaches in charge, there would be little or no drop off in quality. It was a serious miscalculation obviously --from 20/20 hindsight. The losses of Jackson and Trevathan were too, though the former was probably too expensive and the other too anxious to split to Chicago where he could be mollycoddled by Fox some more.

[broncoslover115]

No more than he was just enamored with Vance “the leader of men” Joseph.

Wade was a leader of men but it’s ok because a reputation is now tarnished and there’s no getting around that!

Oh yeah, the Vance “the leader of men” thing.

[Sam_Z]

Very much agree there. I am still disappointed that we didn't hire Kyle and keep Wade, I think this team would have gone in a whole different direction.

Worse part for me is that it all seemed to fall into place at just the right time and instead of going with what seemed like a no brainer, hiring Kyle an OC who had just come off a SB run and son of our SB winning HC, we hired a coach with 1 year experience as a coordinator and his D was by far not lights out. It is still a hard pill to swallow. In my book, that will go down as one of Elways worse decisions.

It Would have been nice if John would have had the patience for Garys staff that you have for John right now.

Gary’s staff made Trevor Siemian look like a pro bowl quarterback winning nine games in 2016.

And I’m sure we all remember it clearly, John wanted Brian Pariani and Rick Denison dismissed. Gary was not about to do that and instead it forced Gary to step down himself.

Gary’s health? Yes, Stress and heart ache caused by John’s demands

[GiddyupGetEm]

Shaq Barrett has 8 sacks. Elway let him go.

[Sam_Z]

Oh yeah, the Vance “the leader of men” thing.

What is so funny is watching everybody trying to give John credit for bringing in Wade Phillips only after Cincinnati denied him a second interview with Vance Joseph/“the leader of men”.

[TheAsianPA]

I read that Denver and Simmons were in extension talks

If this is true I still wouldn't have taken a loan that you have to pay out over the course of 3 years. Especially on a QB that is looking like he won't be a Bronco in the next year or two.

Elway gambled that Flacco was going to play at an elite level and figured that stretching his contract out to possibly pay Simmons was the safe move. Now it's all blowing up. He will be forced to play Lock at this rate, which trashes any value Flacco had for trades or future here. Then if Flacco is cut to make way for a future QB, you still have to pay him next year and the year after that in dead cap.

[broncoslover115]

There is. Matt Russell, director of player personnel, is Elway's chief advisor and VJ is one of his best friends from their time together at CU as both players and coaching assistants. He pushed hard on his friend's behalf with both Elway and Ellis.

And even if Kyle had been picked, it's likely that Joe Woods would have still been the DC because the FO felt that he was a "rising star", the coach of the No-Fly Zone, and they didn't want to lose him to another team. They figured that with most of the defensive SB roster intact and one of its position coaches in charge, there would be little or no drop off in quality. It was a serious miscalculation obviously --from 20/20 hindsight. The losses of Jackson and Trevathan were too, though the former was probably too expensive and the other too anxious to split to Chicago where he could be mollycoddled by Fox some more.

Ah. Thanks for the ‘splanation Dr. Lynch. Didn’t realize Trevathan was so anxious to be mollycoddled by Fox. Love the word.

[FL BRONCO]

I read that Denver and Simmons were in extension talks

Whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy?

[L.M.]

What is so funny is watching everybody trying to give John credit for bringing in Wade Phillips only after Cincinnati denied him a second interview with Vance Joseph.

John brought in Gary, Gary chose Wade who was his DC in Houston, and who wouldn't have come here if John didn't choose Gary.

What's funny is watching people trying to deny Elway any credit for anything good that happened here and assign it to others.