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  1. #376
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    Quote Originally Posted by L.M. View Post
    Science! Which type of scientists confirmed that? Biologists? Meteorologists?

    The lengths people will go to make themselves sound correct and authoritative.



    "Elway fanatics" -how horrible! They're the worst! Do you not realize that the word "fan" is just an abbreviated form of fanatic? So yes one should expect to find many Elway fans on a Broncos forum since he had a hand in securing every trophy in the case except 1977's Lamar Hunt! But how "irrational" of people to believe he might have any solutions!

    You're insinuating that Elway/Broncos fans are just blindly buying a name brand which of course is insulting. If some other hypothetical GM had the same record, I think that reasonable people would give him some rope too. Past results should not be dismissed or forgotten. The date in my sig was just 3&1/2 years ago, not ten or twenty years ago.

    If Elway's latest big decisions don't get us back in contention by the end of his contract, then the Trustees will probably just let it expire and I'm fine with that. If things are horrendous by the end of next season and they fire him, I'll be fine with that too. The rookie coaching staff is making rookie mistakes as I expected, and Flacco is average so far (no surprise there either) though there are 13 more games for the coaches to learn and get the team on a better track. Personally, I was expecting an 8-8 finish (not playoffs) and moderate improvement and there's still a chance for that to happen.

    On to the Jaguars!
    The science I mention is statistics. Elwayís record of drafting is nearly two standards of deviation below average drafting. That is very bad.

    On your point that Ellis will let Elwayís contract expire, you might be right. But that would mean two additional losing seasons we would have to endure, just to arrive at a conclusion many in this forum arrived at years ago: that Elway isnít meant for this job. In todayís NFL, if you are the problem, owners donít let you stick around. It would be catastrophic to go through this just because Elwayís supporters arenít honest with themselves about his performance.

  2. #377
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    I've been a staunch Elway supporter but my patience wears thin. How he handles the rest of this season will effect my opinion greatly. The best move he can make in my eyes is activating Lock off of IR as soon as possible and insisting he gets injected into the starting lineup. If he does that and Lock continues the obvious weekly growth he showed in camp, then I won't mind having Elway stick around. So long as he is also finally capable of accepting where this team is at. He has been in denial for a while now.

  3. #378
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    Quote Originally Posted by 58Miller View Post
    As a GM he took a 4-12 team and brought us a Superbowl! That is not failure in my eyes.
    Heís did nothing but fail since.

    As for the 2013 broncos, that was more PFM and Adam Gase.

    2015 was more Wade Philips!

    Johnís actions basically told all 3 men to walk. He had no patience with the men that created the success that you repeatedly give him credit for.

    John Elway as a GM
    Back to back losing seasons since 1972

    First 0-3 Broncos in 52 years

    First team to record zero sacks, zero turnovers in 50 years.

    More first round fails and draft misses out of all broncos GMs of the past.

    Pat Bowlen had just 4 head coaches from 1983-2010 27 years

    John has had 4 different head coaches in just 9 seasons.

  4. #379
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    Quote Originally Posted by 58Miller View Post
    And still the broncos won 5 division titles
    2 conference titles and a Superbowl
    I'll take that over great drafting and 0 titles
    Correction, Wade Philips won a super bowl, John wanted to hire Vance Joseph.

    John Elway as a GM
    Back to back losing seasons since 1972

    First 0-3 Broncos in 52 years

    First team to record zero sacks, zero turnovers in 50 years.

    More first round fails and draft misses out of all broncos GMs of the past.

    Pat Bowlen had just 4 head coaches from 1983-2010 27 years

    John has had 4 different head coaches in just 9 seasons.

  5. #380
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    Dec 2015
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    Quote Originally Posted by Papa-pwn View Post
    I've been a staunch Elway supporter but my patience wears thin. How he handles the rest of this season will effect my opinion greatly. The best move he can make in my eyes is activating Lock off of IR as soon as possible and insisting he gets injected into the starting lineup. If he does that and Lock continues the obvious weekly growth he showed in camp, then I won't mind having Elway stick around. So long as he is also finally capable of accepting where this team is at. He has been in denial for a while now.
    There are people whoíve already written off Lock as incapable of playing at the NFL level. That might turnout to be true, he could develop and become a franchise quarterback, or something in between. Itís an unknown without seeing him play (and more than a handful of games or half a season). Writing him off at this point is actually admitting another poor draft selection by Elway.

  6. #381
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
    There are people whoíve already written off Lock as incapable of playing at the NFL level. That might turnout to be true, he could develop and become a franchise quarterback, or something in between. Itís an unknown without seeing him play (and more than a handful of games or half a season). Writing him off at this point is actually admitting another poor draft selection by Elway.
    If Lock cant play, then Elways seat is gonna be that much hotter. If he can play, I think it buys Elway some time.

  7. #382
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    What I dont want is to see Elway become like Al Davis...A guy who thinks he is above criticism, but who clearly is bad at his job, and really doesn't have to answer to anyone. A guy living on his past.

    Everyone needs to be accountable. I dont think Elway is accountable to anyone right now. Yes I know Ellis is technically his boss.

  8. #383
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    Quote Originally Posted by BroncoStampede View Post
    If Lock cant play, then Elways seat is gonna be that much hotter. If he can play, I think it buys Elway some time.
    Lock might be the last thing left capable of saving Elway's public perception

  9. #384
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    Oct 2014
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    Quote Originally Posted by BroncoStampede View Post
    What I dont want is to see Elway become like Al Davis...A guy who thinks he is above criticism, but who clearly is bad at his job, and really doesn't have to answer to anyone. A guy living on his past.

    Everyone needs to be accountable. I dont think Elway is accountable to anyone right now. Yes I know Ellis is technically his boss.
    At this point, I'm rooting for the Bowlen family to win the lawsuit, so that the Bowlen Trust can be dismantled, Elway is gone, and Beth Bowlen-Wallace can try to run the team back to relevance.

  10. #385
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    Quote Originally Posted by DwhitetheGamer View Post
    At this point, I'm rooting for the Bowlen family to win the lawsuit, so that the Bowlen Trust can be dismantled, Elway is gone, and Beth Bowlen-Wallace can try to run the team back to relevance.
    Same here however Iím not sure how Iíd feel about Beth but hopefully the arapahoe county court isnít blinded with orange glasses as well. Lol

    I could almost tell you right now that if Beth did end up with control, Mike Shanahan would be brought back immediately. The Bowlen family has great respect for mike and almost look up to him as a father or an uncle.
    Last edited by Sam_Z; 09-23-2019 at 06:28 AM.

  11. #386
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    Quote Originally Posted by DwhitetheGamer View Post
    At this point, I'm rooting for the Bowlen family to win the lawsuit, so that the Bowlen Trust can be dismantled, Elway is gone, and Beth Bowlen-Wallace can try to run the team back to relevance.
    Yea, this franchise is rudderless. No ownership is fine when you're winning, but when you aren't winning, it's a problem.

    We need an owner with a stake in the franchise. Joe Ellis is a housesitter. If the roof of the house needs replacing, what does he care? That's not his responsibility.

  12. #387
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    Quote Originally Posted by BroncoStampede View Post
    Yea, this franchise is rudderless. No ownership is fine when you're winning, but when you aren't winning, it's a problem.

    We need an owner with a stake in the franchise. Joe Ellis is a housesitter. If the roof of the house needs replacing, what does he care? That's not his responsibility.
    Exactly, he ought to be ashamed of himself for standing in the way.

    I think the Bowlens are more than capable of training Britney as well. I mean look at the product right now, do we reall want this guy training anyone to take over the team.

    Super Bowl champions rarely encounter such a drop off within 5 years of winning the Super. Itís doesnít happened however itís happening under Eliss and Elways watch!

  13. #388
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam_Z View Post
    Exactly, he ought to be ashamed of himself for standing in the way.

    I think the Bowlens are more than capable of training Britney as well. I mean look at the product right now, do we reall want this guy training anyone to take over the team.

    Super Bowl champions rarely encounter such a drop off within 5 years of winning the Super. It’s doesn’t happened however it’s happening under Eliss and Elways watch!
    It's could be worse. Bottom line we need to play better on the field, firing Elway and Ellis would do nothing but hurt this team right now.
    "Criticism is a privilege that you earn--it shouldn't be your opening move in an interaction."

  14. #389
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    Quote Originally Posted by Papa-pwn View Post
    Lock might be the last thing left capable of saving Elway's public perception
    Lock is injured, playing him the minute he is healthy is unwise, kid struggled in the preseason, currently can't grip a football. Maybe a couple games at the end of the season. If people supported Elway when we were winning the division, and going to Superbowl s and now want him gone, please give the fans still supporting the structure left in place by Pat Bowlen who will fix the issues
    "Criticism is a privilege that you earn--it shouldn't be your opening move in an interaction."

  15. #390
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    I too have been a big time Elway supporter. Loved him as a player, loved what he did for us as a GM, getting us to 2 SBs, including one championship win.

    However, for me there are two areas he has really messed up, and it started just as we were on the verge of winning the big one. For some reason a guy who knows O has not been able to find a quality long term QB, and has failed to fortify our Oline. And there was a lot of opportunity to correct both situations. We have used a lot of good draft picks, FAs and trade, to get the job done. In these two key areas, I give him a low grade, and unfortunately, you can not win consistently without a decent QB and Oline. Not saying there aren't glimpses of hope, but it's the length of time and effort put into these positions that has become unacceptable.

    As for coaches, the verdict is still out on his effectiveness in that department.

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