Page 10 of 22 FirstFirst ... 8 9 10 11 12 20 ... LastLast
Results 136 to 150 of 330

Thread: 72 can't play

  1. #136
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    10,212
    Quote Originally Posted by beastlyskronk View Post
    John Elway ripped Bolles today, it looks like thereís going to be an end to this one way or the other. Either Bolles fixes himself or heís gonna get benched soon
    Joe Ellis needs to rip John Elway. Elway is responsible for drafting Bolles, another addition to the growing list of first round busts.

  2. #137
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    california
    Posts
    1,958
    Quote Originally Posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
    Joe Ellis needs to rip John Elway. Elway is responsible for drafting Bolles, another addition to the growing list of first round busts.
    What about Ellis and scouts who rank these Draftees? Is Elway the only one who decides who gets drafted. Food for thought 75% of 1st rounders dont make it to their next contract with the team who drafted them. This was stated on the fan 104.3 .

  3. #138
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    the gulf of mexico
    Posts
    15,610
    Quote Originally Posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
    Joe Ellis needs to rip John Elway. Elway is responsible for drafting Bolles, another addition to the growing list of first round busts.
    I think Ellis is more the issue than Elway to be honest. I think Ellis has more input into personnel decisions than people realize and if his preferences in coaches is any indication that isnít a good thing for the organization. Ellis was responsible for firing Shanahan, he was responsible for McDaniels and convinced Pat Bowlen to agree to trade Cutler. He was also a big reason why Vance Joseph was brought in.
    Last edited by beastlyskronk; 09-18-2019 at 02:12 PM.

  4. #139
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    13,702
    Quote Originally Posted by orange crush75 View Post
    What about Ellis and scouts who rank these Draftees? Is Elway the only one who decides who gets drafted. Food for thought 75% of 1st rounders dont make it to their next contract with the team who drafted them. This was stated on the fan 104.3 .
    The idea that because other teams also suck at it, therefore it exonerates John is not a valid argument, for me anyway. Also, there are many people who play a role in the draft process, but it falls on the top guy who makes the final decisions, and that is John Elway. See, the thing that sucks with Bolles is, and you can go back and check, so many people thought Bolles was the 4th best offensive lineman in that draft, and we had our pick of the lot, and we chose Bolles. I personally don't think it was a reach, he was going to be a top 45 pick more than likely, but he wasn't the best available, and he has gone on to have the worse career of the top group outside of Forrest Lamp, who hasn't played due to injury.

  5. #140
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Madison,WI
    Posts
    18,839
    Quote Originally Posted by beastlyskronk View Post
    I think Ellis is more the issue than Elway to be honest. I think Ellis has more input into personnel decisions than people realize and if his preferences in coaches is any indication that isn’t a good thing for the organization. Ellis was responsible for firing Shanahan, he was responsible for McDaniels and convinced Pat Bowlen to agree to trade Cutler. He was also a big reason why Vance Joseph was brought in.

  6. #141
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    13,252
    Quote Originally Posted by johnlimburg View Post
    The idea that because other teams also suck at it, therefore it exonerates John is not a valid argument, for me anyway. Also, there are many people who play a role in the draft process, but it falls on the top guy who makes the final decisions, and that is John Elway. See, the thing that sucks with Bolles is, and you can go back and check, so many people thought Bolles was the 4th best offensive lineman in that draft, and we had our pick of the lot, and we chose Bolles. I personally don't think it was a reach, he was going to be a top 45 pick more than likely, but he wasn't the best available, and he has gone on to have the worse career of the top group outside of Forrest Lamp, who hasn't played due to injury.
    I don't think that is the idea behind that post. Elway for sure deserves criticism for poor draft picks but no more so than any other GM and no less.

    The issue Elway arguably faces is his own "win now" philosophy that he adopted. It cuts both ways and now he's on the other side of the fans who have not seen the "win now" results he promised.

    Had he given in to a rebuild (whatever that looks like and however it was communicated) I think he'd be in a more comfortable place than he is right now. I don't think all of the problems he is facing are all his fault - some a bad timing and coincidence - but those still fall at his feet where the issues that have his finger prints all lay. When the pile grows as it has, separating the blame is just an academic exercise.

  7. #142
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    10,212
    Quote Originally Posted by orange crush75 View Post
    What about Ellis and scouts who rank these Draftees? Is Elway the only one who decides who gets drafted. Food for thought 75% of 1st rounders dont make it to their next contract with the team who drafted them. This was stated on the fan 104.3 .
    The percentage of players signing second contract with the same team doesnít reflect actual success rate. Methodologies vary and one analysis uses player performance with their first team to calculate success rate. One analysis rated success rate of first round players after 2011 which mirrors Elwayís history. The overall success rate was 53%, with the rate varying by year and tier within the first round, e.g. Top 1-5 or picks 21-32.

    Letís look at Elwayís picks starting in 2017 and working our way back:

    2017 - Garrett Bolles - bust
    2016 - Paxton Lynch - bust
    2015 - Shane Ray - bust
    2014 - Bradley Roby - contributor
    2013 - Sylvester Williams - contributor
    2012 - No 1st rd pick
    2011 - Von Miller - future Hall of Fame

    Thatís 3 of 7 players, a 42% success rate. Regardless of the methodology, we need a GM who exceeds the success rate. Saying itís fine to fail or be average because that what everyone else does isnít a sound argument.

  8. #143
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    10,212
    Quote Originally Posted by beastlyskronk View Post
    I think Ellis is more the issue than Elway to be honest. I think Ellis has more input into personnel decisions than people realize and if his preferences in coaches is any indication that isnít a good thing for the organization. Ellis was responsible for firing Shanahan, he was responsible for McDaniels and convinced Pat Bowlen to agree to trade Cutler. He was also a big reason why Vance Joseph was brought in.
    Elway is the GM and the majority of personnel decisions fall under him. We can always find an exception like the one you mentioned.

    Itís interesting to see how some fans play it both ways. When the Broncos had success culminating in a championship, fans point to Elway - his decisions, draft picks and free agent signings. When the Broncos falter, itís on others around him. Iím not saying itís all his fault, but most of it lands on Elway.

    As for the comment about ripping Elway, the point is that he needs to be held accountable. Itís easy for Elway to rip Bolles, but his track record over the last few years is horrible - heís in no position to rip anyone.
    Last edited by Fantaztic7; 09-18-2019 at 03:54 PM.

  9. #144
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    9,532
    Quote Originally Posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
    Joe Ellis needs to rip John Elway. Elway is responsible for drafting Bolles, another addition to the growing list of first round busts.
    Elway in turn needs to rip MATT RUSSELL, the Director of Player Personnel who has reportedly shown up to work drunk many times. All the scouts and related jobs are under him and so he is largely responsible for the bad draft picks. He is also behind the VJ hire.
    Superbowl 50 MVP Von Miller on February 7th, 2016

  10. #145
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    FORT COLLINS COLORADO
    Posts
    7,742
    Quote Originally Posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
    The percentage of players signing second contract with the same team doesnít reflect actual success rate. Methodologies vary and one analysis uses player performance with their first team to calculate success rate. One analysis rated success rate of first round players after 2011 which mirrors Elwayís history. The overall success rate was 53%, with the rate varying by year and tier within the first round, e.g. Top 1-5 or picks 21-32.

    Letís look at Elwayís picks starting in 2017 and working our way back:

    2017 - Garrett Bolles - bust
    2016 - Paxton Lynch - bust
    2015 - Shane Ray - bust
    2014 - Bradley Roby - contributor
    2013 - Sylvester Williams - contributor
    2012 - No 1st rd pick
    2011 - Von Miller - future Hall of Fame

    Thatís 3 of 7 players, a 42% success rate. Regardless of the methodology, we need a GM who exceeds the success rate. Saying itís fine to fail or be average because that what everyone else does isnít a sound argument.
    i'd put williams on the bust, but i would 2012 as wolfe which i could put an contributor. Williams did as much as ray, maybe. either way they both where busts.

    oakland raders gm
    latavis murray trade bait

  11. #146
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    10,212
    Quote Originally Posted by L.M. View Post
    Elway in turn needs to rip MATT RUSSELL, the Director of Player Personnel who has reportedly shown up to work drunk many times. All the scouts and related jobs are under him and so he is largely responsible for the bad draft picks. He is also behind the VJ hire.
    No need to rip on Matt Russell, just fire him and hire a new Director of Player Personnel. If Russell is a problem then deal with it head on. Thatís what a competent, effective manager would do.

  12. #147
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    10,212
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyousukeneko View Post
    i'd put williams on the bust, but i would 2012 as wolfe which i could put an contributor. Williams did as much as ray, maybe. either way they both where busts.
    I wouldnít disagree. Back to Bolles...

    When JaíWuan James returns there better be a change with Wilkinson sliding to LT. Bolles should be benched.

  13. #148
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    the gulf of mexico
    Posts
    15,610
    Quote Originally Posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
    Elway is the GM and the majority of personnel decisions fall under his role. We can always point to an exception like the one you mentioned. Itís interesting to see how some fans play it both ways. When the Broncos had success culminating in a championship, many point to Elway - his decisions, draft picks and free agent signings. When the Broncos falter, itís not Elway, itís on others around him. Iím not saying itís all Elwayís fault, but most of it lands on Elway
    Thatís the thing though, we can only guess as to what the power structure is. Itís hard to say who is responsible for what. Weíve seen two very different draft and free agency strategies under Elway. The high production/high character drafts he employed when he first got here and the past two drafts with the highly athletic boom or bust questionable character drafts sandwiched in between. And the splurging on top level FA talent to the bargain bin shopping and now back to spending on big names in FA or at least the bigger names we can attract with our current QB situation.

    Why is that? I have a theory that Ellis didnít like the credit Elway got for the turnaround and started being more vocal but has now realized that heís hurting the team. I have nothing to back this up other than the fact that weíve seen 2 very very different philosophies in both drafting and free agency.

  14. #149
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    9,532
    Quote Originally Posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
    No need to rip on Matt Russell, just fire him and hire a new Director of Player Personnel. If Russell is a problem then deal with it head on. That’s what a competent, effective manager would do.
    I think it's past time for him to go, but Elway is friends with him and so he remains his top advisor. IIRC, Russell is also in good standing with Ellis.
    Superbowl 50 MVP Von Miller on February 7th, 2016

  15. #150
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    FORT COLLINS COLORADO
    Posts
    7,742
    Quote Originally Posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
    I wouldn’t disagree. Back to Bolles...

    When Ja’Wuan James returns there better be a change with Wilkinson sliding to LT. Bolles should be benched.
    i would rather see James at LT and keep Wilkinson at RT if we go that way. James is probably our best tackle. i am not sold on wilkinson as a starting caliber Tackle in general. he has not looked great on the right side.

    oakland raders gm
    latavis murray trade bait

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •