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  1. #451
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    Quote Originally Posted by 58Miller View Post
    I supported Flacco and Allen and now I support Lock.
    Team did a good job and brought him along slowly, didn’t play him til he was ready.

    I hope he’s our starting QB for the next 15 years!

    You have said you don’t think he’s the guy:
    Mr. Flip Flop at it again I see. Speaking of selective memory, you might have the best selective memory of anyone around here. Also that quote of mine has nothing at all to do with what I just said. I stated the odds of Lock, a second round pick, becoming a franchise quarterback is unlikely based of percentages and past trends, no one with any sense would disagree with what I just said. What someone, you, disagreed with, was even playing Lock in the first place, using terrible arguments, as you usually do, which I highlighted in the last post. So, as I said, jump off the high horse you are on because you disagreed with yourself 3 weeks ago.

  2. #452
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnlimburg View Post
    Mr. Flip Flop at it again I see. Speaking of selective memory, you might have the best selective memory of anyone around here. Also that quote of mine has nothing at all to do with what I just said. I stated the odds of Lock, a second round pick, becoming a franchise quarterback is unlikely based of percentages and past trends, no one with any sense would disagree with what I just said. What someone, you, disagreed with, was even playing Lock in the first place, using terrible arguments, as you usually do, which I highlighted in the last post. So, as I said, jump off the high horse you are on because you disagreed with yourself 3 weeks ago.
    says the guy riding a high horse

  3. #453
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    Quote Originally Posted by arapaho View Post
    says the guy riding a high horse
    He also has flip flopped before:

    Quote Originally Posted by johnlimburg View Post
    Development ? How many quarterbacks develop on the sidelines ? Serious question ? I was once a fan of the approach of bringing a guy along slowly, and letting them get comfortable, but history shows us that doesn't work.

  4. #454
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnlimburg View Post
    Exactly. When Elway committed to another highly paid veteran giving up a 4th round pick in the process, he essentially said he has the roster to compete for a playoff spot, and the development for future years is on the back burner. With this plan of Elways again failing, I believe this is the final straw and the reason why he should be out the door at seasons end. Obviously this is barring some type of miracle run where it actually works out that way and we end up in the playoffs with Flacco playing, but I doubt that happens at this point. I think we would all accept a 3-13 season if we were developing a young quarterback in the process, I know I would, but not with Flacco at the helm, and not after Elway spent big money on mediocre free agents in the off-season, another wasted year.
    So do you still want Elway fired if Lock ends up being the future?

    In the post above you say it’s the final straw but you also say it would be ok if a young Qb is developed.

    Kareem Jackson doesn’t seem mediocre to me, do you still think he’s mediocre or have you flip flopped?

    James and Callahan have been injured so I think we should wait to see them play before calling them mediocre don’t you?
    Last edited by 58Miller; 12-10-2019 at 04:48 PM.

  5. #455
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnlimburg View Post
    Scrangerello never should have had a job as an offensive play-caller, his resume lacked any substance at all, and he was considered for the job via association, and he is proving that. The man looks out of his depth in my opinion, and I feel like he is escaping blame around here. I am not impressed with his offense at all, especially the 15 rushing attempts versus the 30 plus passing plays, I expected a different look team under Fangio's "old school" approach.
    Do you still believe Scangerello shouldn’t have the OC job? Seems like he is doing a good job with Lock. But then again if you were to change your mind based on what you see you’d be what you call a “flip flopper” and we can’t have that can we?

    You want Elway gone, don’t think Scangerello should have been hired.


    October 24th I posted this:


    Quote Originally Posted by 58Miller View Post
    I’m glad the Broncos view Lock as a future investment and not a must start week 9 or he is a lost cause.
    Week 14 sounds right to me, if they bring him back. I would like to see him play sooner rather than later, but if he needs more time I’m willing to wait.
    I never thought Lock had to be rushed into the starting job, you did!!!!
    Last edited by 58Miller; 12-10-2019 at 05:14 PM.

  6. #456
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    Quote Originally Posted by 58Miller View Post
    He also has flip flopped before:

    So do you still want Elway fired if Lock ends up being the future?

    In the post above you say it’s the final straw but you also say it would be ok if a young Qb is developed.

    Kareem Jackson doesn’t seem mediocre to me, do you still think he’s mediocre or have you flip flopped?

    James and Callahan have been injured so I think we should wait to see them play before calling them mediocre don’t you?

    Do you still believe Scangerello shouldn’t have the OC job? Seems like he is doing a good job with Lock. But then again if you were to change your mind based on what you see you’d be what you call a “flip flopper” and we can’t have that can we?

    You want Elway gone, don’t think Scangerello should have been hired.

    October 24th I posted this:

    I never thought Lock had to be rushed into the starting job, you did!!!!
    Yes, over the course of watching several years worth of evidence change my mind and prove me wrong. I am not so stubborn to ignore facts, to ignore clear examples, or to ignore something logical when it is presented to me, like you were in that conversation we were having. It wasn't one half of football which changed my mind on 6 different topics all at once.

    Again, Jackson had a massive game, but it was one big game he had, he is solid, but he is overpaid, and yes, I would say he is a mediocre player. People carried on like this after the Cleveland game, and everyone loved telling people who feel like I do how stupid I was, before we said hold up, we will lose the next 2 games and we will be onto Lock, something you again argued and disagreed with.

    One good half of football doesn't change my opinion on the offensive coordinator either, nor does it influence my thoughts on Elways future here. I stay pretty level headed and look at everything, I am not as easily swayed by halves of football as you clearly are. We have done this dance before at the start of last year, when you called me out on my opinions I had over the course of the off-season regarding our bad offensive line. After we beat Seattle to start the year you were in here clowning me, before reality set in that I was right. It's established you are a great fanboy, but your knowledge of anything football related is clearly lacking.

    Also, I still do not think Scrangerello is the answer. It's a long detailed discussion but he has not shown me he is the guy to lead this offense. I don't like that he falls in love with the pass, I don't like his lack of commitment to the run game, and I really don't like the gadget type plays he seems obsessed with running. I also don't think he was qualified, and it's proven to be a bad hire. Also, be careful, because that fanboy Arapaho you have attached to your hip agrees with me

  7. #457
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnlimburg View Post
    Yes, over the course of watching several years worth of evidence change my mind and prove me wrong. I am not so stubborn to ignore facts, to ignore clear examples, or to ignore something logical when it is presented to me, like you were in that conversation we were having. It wasn't one half of football which changed my mind on 6 different topics all at once.

    Again, Jackson had a massive game, but it was one big game he had, he is solid, but he is overpaid, and yes, I would say he is a mediocre player. People carried on like this after the Cleveland game, and everyone loved telling people who feel like I do how stupid I was, before we said hold up, we will lose the next 2 games and we will be onto Lock, something you again argued and disagreed with.

    One good half of football doesn't change my opinion on the offensive coordinator either, nor does it influence my thoughts on Elways future here. I stay pretty level headed and look at everything, I am not as easily swayed by halves of football as you clearly are. We have done this dance before at the start of last year, when you called me out on my opinions I had over the course of the off-season regarding our bad offensive line. After we beat Seattle to start the year you were in here clowning me, before reality set in that I was right. It's established you are a great fanboy, but your knowledge of anything football related is clearly lacking.

    Also, I still do not think Scrangerello is the answer. It's a long detailed discussion but he has not shown me he is the guy to lead this offense. I don't like that he falls in love with the pass, I don't like his lack of commitment to the run game, and I really don't like the gadget type plays he seems obsessed with running. I also don't think he was qualified, and it's proven to be a bad hire. Also, be careful, because that fanboy Arapaho you have attached to your hip agrees with me
    You mean to tell me you changed your mind!!!.......nothing wrong that, actually i think that is understandable, and I don’t think you are a flip flop.

    The beginning of the season I was under the impression Flacco would be the starter all year and the team was stashing Lock. I was obviously wrong about that, and I also did not see anything in preseason that made me think he could have a game like he had against Houston in his second ever start.

    I’m happy he’s starting, i hope Elway builds the team around him and doesn’t overreact when he has a bad game or three.

    And if my fellow Bronco fan Arapaho agrees with you!!!!!!!!!....... well he can have whatever opinion he wants, I am a Bronco fan and that won’t change but after that I am open to all ideas about the team.
    I currently believe this team is headed in the right direction, Despite the record not being better the team has competed in all but the Buffalo and KC games.

    You should quit wasting your time on these boards and go after Elway’s job since you obviously believe you know how to run a team better than has.
    Last edited by 58Miller; 12-10-2019 at 11:05 PM.

  8. #458
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    Quote Originally Posted by arapaho View Post
    don't worry about bap...he been resorting to the "fairweather" label for bronco fans when his team sucks for years
    lol give me some examples. all you do is lie here man, nothing you say should be believed or trusted.

    i'm calling one person a fairweather smack talker because that's what he is. you defend him yet try to talk smack to me for taking one day off from smack

  9. #459
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    Quote Originally Posted by 58Miller View Post
    Baphs help me out here!!!!! Why did i write the above since I only root for us when we are winning?
    #1 you admitted to it after i made a topic about you not being here as much.

    #2 you were always here every day all day just like you are right now and then all of a sudden you weren't. you may have posted something every once in a while but it was a far cry from what you were doing before.

    you know what i say is true, why do you deny it, especially after admitting to it? makes no sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by 58Miller View Post
    Your right Baphs, I would definitely give you a hard time if the tables were turned. For what’s its worth I didn’t really run my mouth about the win at all.

    Showed up 3 straight losses to start the year but didn’t show up for last week so guess I’m a fair weather fan now, oh well I had a good run
    this is me giving you a hard time, DEAL WITH IT.

  10. #460
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    Quote Originally Posted by 58Miller View Post
    You should quit wasting your time on these boards and go after Elway’s job since you obviously believe you know how to run a team better than has.
    This is the lamest response to someone suggesting ways they believe things can be done better, and it ignores the details of the specific situations being talked about instead of basing each idea or thought on their own merit. At the same time, I honestly don't think I could of drafted any worse than Elway did over that 3 to 4 year period, and I know I wouldn't of wasted some of the money Elway did on some horrible free agent signings. Not saying I know more, obviously I don't, but a lot of average people have not only said these things in hindsight, but as they happened, and have been prove right, repeatedly.

    Now, I have liked a lot more over the last 2 off-season than I have in probably the previous 3 or 4, going back to whichever off-season Elway added Sanders, Talib, Ware, and Ward. But there are still stinker decisions thrown in the middle of things which have not restored my faith in an Elway led front office. Moves like Flacco, Scrangerello, James, and holding out Lock when he was ready to return from injury. But, the list is significantly shorter to off-seasons prior, but I wont go there because some of those moves are sickening to look back at. If we can stack another good draft class on top of the previous 2 years I will be fine with Elway again. That is prefaced with a commited approach from Fangio playing and developing the young guys. If that happens, and Lock develops even into a solid quarterback, I think in 3 years time we could be well on our way.

  11. #461
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnlimburg View Post
    This is the lamest response to someone suggesting ways they believe things can be done better, and it ignores the details of the specific situations being talked about instead of basing each idea or thought on their own merit. At the same time, I honestly don't think I could of drafted any worse than Elway did over that 3 to 4 year period, and I know I wouldn't of wasted some of the money Elway did on some horrible free agent signings. Not saying I know more, obviously I don't, but a lot of average people have not only said these things in hindsight, but as they happened, and have been prove right, repeatedly.

    Now, I have liked a lot more over the last 2 off-season than I have in probably the previous 3 or 4, going back to whichever off-season Elway added Sanders, Talib, Ware, and Ward. But there are still stinker decisions thrown in the middle of things which have not restored my faith in an Elway led front office. Moves like Flacco, Scrangerello, James, and holding out Lock when he was ready to return from injury. But, the list is significantly shorter to off-seasons prior, but I wont go there because some of those moves are sickening to look back at. If we can stack another good draft class on top of the previous 2 years I will be fine with Elway again. That is prefaced with a commited approach from Fangio playing and developing the young guys. If that happens, and Lock develops even into a solid quarterback, I think in 3 years time we could be well on our way.
    That’s a long paragraph for you to admit you couldn’t have drafted worse than Elway.
    How bout Peyton, you think he would have came to Denver if you were GM?

    Even a better question, why didn’t Pat Bowlen call you and ask you to repair the teams reputation after JoshMcDaniels dragged it through the mud with a cheating scandal and a 4-12 record?

    I can understand being critical of ones team but to say I couldn’t have done worse when you can’t get a job in the front office pouring coffee is lame!!!!!!!

    Elway
    1 Super Bowl
    2 conference championships
    5 division titles

    VS

    John Lameburg
    Zero accomplishments!!!!!
    John has failed to land even one draft pick...

    But on record;
    Quote Originally Posted by johnlimburg View Post
    I honestly don't think I could of drafted any worse than Elway did over that 3 to 4 year period, and I know I wouldn't of wasted some of the money Elway did on some horrible free agent signings.
    Last edited by 58Miller; 12-13-2019 at 12:42 PM.

  12. #462
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    Quote Originally Posted by 58Miller View Post
    That’s a long paragraph for you to admit you couldn’t have drafted worse than Elway.
    How bout Peyton, you think he would have came to Denver if you were GM?

    Even a better question, why didn’t Pat Bowlen call you and ask you to repair the teams reputation after JoshMcDaniels dragged it through the mud with a cheating scandal and a 4-12 record?

    I can understand being critical of ones team but to say I couldn’t have done worse when you can’t get a job in the front office pouring coffee is lame!!!!!!!

    Elway
    1 Super Bowl
    2 conference championships
    5 division titles

    VS

    John Lameburg
    Zero accomplishments!!!!!
    John has failed to land a draft pick...
    Fair enough response, I can't even argue against that, and as I said I am not even saying what you are acting like I am, I think my response clearly indicates that. Also, another dumb question which serves no purpose. I guess one is not allowed to offer an opinion on anything in your world then unless they have held that current title ? I guess an environment of free thinking and expressive thought isn't something you believe in. I am happy to argue specific points, but this straw man argument you are attempting to make is quite typical of your constant, nonsensical, and quite honestly stupid replies throughout the forums.

  13. #463
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnlimburg View Post
    Fair enough response, I can't even argue against that, and as I said I am not even saying what you are acting like I am, I think my response clearly indicates that. Also, another dumb question which serves no purpose. I guess one is not allowed to offer an opinion on anything in your world then unless they have held that current title ? I guess an environment of free thinking and expressive thought isn't something you believe in. I am happy to argue specific points, but this straw man argument you are attempting to make is quite typical of your constant, nonsensical, and quite honestly stupid replies throughout the forums.
    It’s one thing to say you don’t like Elway or what he has done, it’s another to say you couldn’t have done worse, when the truth is you can’t get that job, period!!!!!


    Your like the dude who watches a game and says “i coulda caught that!!!!!, or I could have made that shot!!!!”
    Sure you could!!!!, your just not good enough to do the other 99% it takes to get to that position!!!!

    As a Broncos fan like you, I’m not happy where we are at either. The draft and the FA’s missed on have hurt us, and that is on Elway for sure.
    I don’t think building a winner in the NFL is easy, Elway has built equity by his early success and deserves to finish out his contract
    in my opinion.
    You don’t agree and you have the right to criticize and have a different opinion.

    Will see what happens, I don’t care what happens as long as it involves Thai team getting back to contending for a Superbowl.
    Last edited by 58Miller; 12-13-2019 at 12:58 PM.

  14. #464
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnlimburg View Post
    but this straw man argument you are attempting to make is quite typical of your constant, nonsensical, and quite honestly stupid replies throughout the forums.

  15. #465
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    Simple question

    Which AFC West GM can beat these accolades

    built the best offense in history

    Followed by one of the greatest defenses to ever play

    the team win two AFC championships

    And one SB

    If telesco or any other west GM can match it then speak up

    Or shut your pie hole

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