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Thread: No Flyzone 2.0?

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnlimburg View Post
    Very rarely do teams trade for a player who they will have to give up high draft compensation, while giving up a huge chunk of salary as well, it just doesn't happen, it's not a smart move. It's also extremely risky for a team like us to give up a first round pick in a trade for anyone, who knows how high that pick could end up being, top 10 ? Top 5 ? Who knows.

    I also don't think Ramsey would even want to play here, this isn't an attractive situation to be in, unless he has a secret yearning to live in Colorado or something that no one knows about. A trade of this nature is not something a team in Denvers current position makes, and I hope Elway doesn't dig his hole any deeper.
    Ramsey seems like a great fit in Cleveland, a team that loves to talk about but not be about it!!!!
    Ramseyís talent canít keep up with his mouth.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by arapaho View Post
    Elway has had bad drafts in 2013, 2015 and 2017 other then that they are not bad

    of his first draft
    von still here
    moore played 5 nfl seasons
    franklin played 6 nfl seasons
    nate I played 5 nfl seasons
    JT played 7 seasons
    virgil green still in the league

    of the 2012 draft 3 of the 7 are still in the league,

    of the 2014 draft
    5 -6 are still in the league
    2016 5-8 are still in the league\
    2017 4-8 still in the league...barely

    people wrongly count players no longer on the team as a draft fail
    A team does not go to two Super Bowls in 3 years and win the West 5 years in a row unless good moves were made

    We get spoiled around here with high expectations and sometimes people want it all. It is good we have that as opposed to half of the NFL who not won a Super Bowl in 30 years ....almost 1/3 of the NFL has not even been to the Super Bowl in the last 20 years.

    Yet our fans complain about a GM who has put us into two Super Bowls in the last 6 years when almost 1/3 of the NFL has not even been to a Super Bowl since Elway retired.
    Win lose or tie Bronco fan til I die

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by DenverBlood View Post
    Bolles is still in the NfL and he might easily be the worst dumbest pick elway has ever made.
    Although I feel that Bolles was the wrong pick, and I thought that at the time, Bolles was still a legitimate pick and worthy of being taken around the late first round through to the late second round. Bolles did show some struggles in pass protection at Utah and had issues with holding, but he looked like he would be an instant impact player in the run game, and he really excelled moving around. I can understand why Elway seen the potential with Bolles, I just think he thought that some of the issues in his pass protection were based around his technique, and felt coaching could fix that, hopefully leading to a quality, athletic, left tackle.

    As I said, I felt at the time it was the wrong move to take the 4th best offensive line prospect in the draft, I criticise Elway for that, but there was upside there, I just don't think Elway accounted for Bolles being uncoachable, and quite honestly, seemingly being too stupid to take on board what his coaches are trying to teach him. Bolles could have a future at right guard in my opinion, but his pass protection out on the edge, it seems like a lost cause right now. .

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by DenverBlood View Post
    Still being in the league does not constitute good drafting.

    Bolles is still in the NfL and he might easily be the worst dumbest pick elway has ever made.
    Even over Paxton Lynch! Now that is saying something.

    One thing about Elways drafts are that it seems as if heís taken a lot of athleticism over brains!

    Hopefully heís learned from that mistake and weíll see better drafting in the future.

    Jury is still out on 18-19 but itís looking pretty bright!

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hadez View Post
    A team does not go to two Super Bowls in 3 years and win the West 5 years in a row unless good moves were made

    We get spoiled around here with high expectations and sometimes people want it all. It is good we have that as opposed to half of the NFL who not won a Super Bowl in 30 years ....almost 1/3 of the NFL has not even been to the Super Bowl in the last 20 years.

    Yet our fans complain about a GM who has put us into two Super Bowls in the last 6 years when almost 1/3 of the NFL has not even been to a Super Bowl since Elway retired.
    That is true, Elway made some great moves early on, great moves. The hiring of John Fox to stabilise the culture was huge, severely underrated, also was huge in the Manning signing. The way Elway went about bringing in impact free agents to put around Peyton was huge also, and some big hits late in the draft was massive in building that championship roster, no doubt.

    But, looking at the drafting history throughout the Elway tenure, it has been pretty poor in my opinion, and I am a firm believer that General Managers get graded on the first 4 rounds of their drafts, agree or disagree, it's how I see it. A lot of times position coaches, area scouts, and others are pushing the later round guys they have come across and liked, and they influence those picks more so than the General Manager, with that being especially true with undrafted free agents. Based on how I look at it, I don't really value Elways drafting at all throughout his successful years, but do really value his free agent acquisitions.

    Now, how long does the Superbowl victory buy Elway ? That is the question that needs to be answered. We are now going on 4 season after being removed from that amazing run, and each of those season have been without a playoff appearance. I wont go over the specifics of all the misery and how Elway has failed to do his job, it's known, but if we once again miss the playoffs, when Elway again told us he believes he has built a contender, how long does he have ?

  6. #36
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    Iíd rather trade a 1st for Trent Williams. We need a LT and ILB, not another CB.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by arapaho View Post
    Being in the league and still playing means you ainít crap

    Iím sure with you drafting we would have 6 pro bowlers drafted every year
    I donít agree with this assessment in terms of Bolles. He is crap. And Elway has consistently done a horrid job addressing the oline throughout his tenure. Iíd be willing to bet we cut him after this season and his time in the league will be over. Iím not really sure why you are ok with Elway drafting years of high round ,supposed to be starter picks, that end up as career backups elsewhere. Brock has been dumped by several teams. Lynch has now been dumped by another. Both are still in the league. Doesnít make them good picks.


    Also no need to be snarky. Never once tried to claim i know the first thing about drafting players. But fans judge GMs after the fact all the time. Just because I wouldnít do any better doesnít mean Elway deserves to continue to suck it up much longer.
    Last edited by DenverBlood; 09-21-2019 at 05:17 AM.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam_Z View Post
    Even over Paxton Lynch! Now that is saying something.

    One thing about Elways drafts are that it seems as if heís taken a lot of athleticism over brains!

    Hopefully heís learned from that mistake and weíll see better drafting in the future.

    Jury is still out on 18-19 but itís looking pretty bright!
    Well I said might be not necessarily is.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnlimburg View Post
    Although I feel that Bolles was the wrong pick, and I thought that at the time, Bolles was still a legitimate pick and worthy of being taken around the late first round through to the late second round. Bolles did show some struggles in pass protection at Utah and had issues with holding, but he looked like he would be an instant impact player in the run game, and he really excelled moving around. I can understand why Elway seen the potential with Bolles, I just think he thought that some of the issues in his pass protection were based around his technique, and felt coaching could fix that, hopefully leading to a quality, athletic, left tackle.

    As I said, I felt at the time it was the wrong move to take the 4th best offensive line prospect in the draft, I criticise Elway for that, but there was upside there, I just don't think Elway accounted for Bolles being uncoachable, and quite honestly, seemingly being too stupid to take on board what his coaches are trying to teach him. Bolles could have a future at right guard in my opinion, but his pass protection out on the edge, it seems like a lost cause right now. .
    Believe me at the time I was fine with the pick. I believe I wanted the guy from Bama but I was fine with the pick when it was made. I was very concerned with all the red flags but also assumed coaching could fix it.

    Obviously Iím playing the hindsight 20/20 game that it was an awful assumption. Iím more annoyed we are now watching him for a third straight season and we donít have anywhere close to a reliable backup that we feel comfortable benching him for. Though that might change when James returns from injury. Maybe Wilkinson goes to the left.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnlimburg View Post
    That is true, Elway made some great moves early on, great moves. The hiring of John Fox to stabilise the culture was huge, severely underrated, also was huge in the Manning signing. The way Elway went about bringing in impact free agents to put around Peyton was huge also, and some big hits late in the draft was massive in building that championship roster, no doubt.

    But, looking at the drafting history throughout the Elway tenure, it has been pretty poor in my opinion, and I am a firm believer that General Managers get graded on the first 4 rounds of their drafts, agree or disagree, it's how I see it. A lot of times position coaches, area scouts, and others are pushing the later round guys they have come across and liked, and they influence those picks more so than the General Manager, with that being especially true with undrafted free agents. Based on how I look at it, I don't really value Elways drafting at all throughout his successful years, but do really value his free agent acquisitions.

    Now, how long does the Superbowl victory buy Elway ? That is the question that needs to be answered. We are now going on 4 season after being removed from that amazing run, and each of those season have been without a playoff appearance. I wont go over the specifics of all the misery and how Elway has failed to do his job, it's known, but if we once again miss the playoffs, when Elway again told us he believes he has built a contender, how long does he have ?
    This is a very well written take. I used to think everything Elway touched turn to gold. And he didnít just manage a very fantastic Roster but he did it while having the lowest dead cap of nearly anyone in the league.

    Lately it seems he is making poor decision after poor decision and getting desperate for win now fixes. So now not only are the poor contract signings not panning out but heís starting to incur massive dead cap penalties desperately trying to fix it.

    I also agree at the time of Super Bowl 50 Iíd have probably said a win buys him 5-10 years of grace. But I never imagine the next four years would be this disgraceful. Iíd still probably easily say itís worth the Super Bowl. Rather than a Super Bowl loss with four consecutive one and dones. But as with everything in life our patience has limits. And you start to wonder when enough is enough. I think for me a third consecutive losing season is enough.

    I used to brag to all my friends that in my first 30 years of life I had only witnessed 3-4 losing seasons for the Broncos total. From 83 to about 2013. Now we may be on pace for 3 straight. That hadnít happened since before my lifetime. That says a lot about the state of the franchise and whose calling the shots.

    Honestly what would be nice is if we didnít have to fire him. But rather he volunteer to step down if we suffer a third consecutive season below .500.


    And by the way I realized Iíve derailed this thread to get way off topic from no fly zone 2.0.

  11. #41
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    Itís so funny... I used to derail threads with Elway posts and now that Iím not everyone is derailing anything I post with Elway comments.... Most of us know Elway is the problem now.... I kind of want to keep this about Ramsey and how he can help improve our team.

    To those saying he wonít help the team I completely disagree. I think his contribution would be similar to when we picked up Talib.
    Von and Chubb arenít going to get instant pressure every time, especially since they donít have an interior rusher taking some of the burden away from them. Teams are constantly chipping Chubb and doubling Von. Itís on damn near every play.

    With Jalen I think it would give us the ability to play man coverage and stick with the Wrs for a longer period of time. This would free up Von and Chubb to make plays or more ďcoverage sacks.Ē In addition our run defense has been ďmehĒ at best. We could leave Harris and Jalen on islands and put more men in the box... Hell we could blitz more on passing downs creating 1 on 1 situations for Von and Chubb as well.

    Obtaining Jalen could be a franchise and season changing decision. I am all in on trading two 1st round picks for him. I donít think weíre as far away as people think.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Champ>NFL View Post
    Itís so funny... I used to derail threads with Elway posts and now that Iím not everyone is derailing anything I post with Elway comments.... Most of us know Elway is the problem now.... I kind of want to keep this about Ramsey and how he can help improve our team.

    To those saying he wonít help the team I completely disagree. I think his contribution would be similar to when we picked up Talib.
    Von and Chubb arenít going to get instant pressure every time, especially since they donít have an interior rusher taking some of the burden away from them. Teams are constantly chipping Chubb and doubling Von. Itís on damn near every play.

    With Jalen I think it would give us the ability to play man coverage and stick with the Wrs for a longer period of time. This would free up Von and Chubb to make plays or more ďcoverage sacks.Ē In addition our run defense has been ďmehĒ at best. We could leave Harris and Jalen on islands and put more men in the box... Hell we could blitz more on passing downs creating 1 on 1 situations for Von and Chubb as well.

    Obtaining Jalen could be a franchise and season changing decision. I am all in on trading two 1st round picks for him. I donít think weíre as far away as people think.
    Yeah thatís my bad for derailing it. I didnít mean to.

    I would love to have Jalen but I donít think we have enough cap space to make it work without making a significant cut elsewhere do we? And Iím not sure where that cut would come from without hurting that area just as much as Jalen would improve the secondary.

    I could also see us still finishing below .500 with him. While I do think it would significantly help the defense Iím not sure how much that matters when the offense is averaging 15 points a game. Youíd have to be confident Jalen takes us into elite defense in the history of the NFl type territory for us to still not get out scored every game. And Iím just not that confident we will be seeing the offense reach 20+ points anytime soon.

    He would be a bigger upgrade that anything we would probably do in the draft. But I just donít see it making a big difference with this offense.

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