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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rastic View Post
    Man vs zone vs press vs... doesn't matter in the big picture. What matters are the players a coach has and how they work in their system or a coaches ability to adapt them to fit in the scheme. Wade has had a lot of recent success but had had his ups and downs. Fangio had some stellar years in Chicago but not so great years elsewhere.

    We should have a fairly good front line but have not created much pressure and that is highly concerning because it doesn't make sense. Our run defense was suspect even before the season began with injury and personnel so I am not that surprised - ILB has been a need for some time. Our secondary... meh.. caught a bad break to a key piece with Callahan out and depth has clearly been an issue.

    I'd like to see more blitzes and not just because. Fangio likes to hide what the defense is doing and I think throwing more blitzes in ought to cause more disruption to the offense trying to counter by having to consider where extra pressure might be coming from. I think he has been playing too conservative and playing defense on defense rather than attacking more.

    He's made adjustments, perhaps too slow for us fans. More press or man isn't the answer if your young CB is slow to react - he's actually split coverage with Harris in press man coverage on one side of the field and Yiadom off the ball with the safety moved on his side for extra protection, just as an example, in the Raiders game. The problem is that isn't the singular problem, it's the scheme as a whole that is not working, not just the secondary.

    Bring more heat up front, stunts, blitzes, etc, not to replace but to augment. More pressure on the QB on passing downs will clean up things in the secondary. They might get burned for a big play here and there but how is that really different from what we are seeing already?
    Good post! It's baffling but perhaps we need better players on the DL. Von and Chubb are less effective without decent interior pressure, the likes of which Jackson provided to help Von and DWare under Wade. We need beastmasters up front for this to work. Wolfe is a has-been, and is Harris really best as a NT?
    Superbowl 50 MVP Von Miller on February 7th, 2016

  2. #17
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
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    3
    Phillips had more to work with. Our safeties are average and so are our defensive backs outside of Harris and we lack a stud ILB and a decent DT. They can't keep living off the memory of 2015

  3. #18
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    Sep 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Broncos-R-Great View Post
    Lol oh címon, if Wade was still here, youíd all be complaining about him, saying things like ďI wish we could get that Fangio guy over her from ChicagoĒ

    You all know itís true...
    False. Wade was proven here. And Wade was respected by players and fans because he was aggressive. Players have talked about how they looked around after hearing Wade call a play and everyone was smiling like he's really about to send the house and let us lock the WRs up? I can remember Wade getting run over on the sideline vs the Steelers and then sent an all out blitz the next play to send a message.

    Wade would likely blitz every play at this point until we got a sack or turnover. Fangio just seems to be stuck in his ways and not willing to change. Again, Wade would find a way to get pressure at any cost. Fangio had Khalil Mack last season who's going to eventually get a sack all by himself. Von just isn't able to do that right now.

  4. #19
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    Jun 2007
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    We donít have the interior push Fangio had last season in chicago. Mack gets a lot of attention but Hicks does a lot of the dirty work. Then Jackson on the backend is a really special player that makes a ton of plays and allows the CBs to be aggressive. The defense wonít be great again until we find that interior pass rusher

  5. #20
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    Dec 2015
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    Wisconsin
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    Wade mixes things up, blitzes, and moves players around. Last night, I watched Mathews and Donald line up all over the place. Confused the Browns. We are stagnant, while at times dropping our best player in coverage as opposed to applying pressure. Hard to believe it is 80 degrees outside in September and my teams season is already over. Gonna be a long winter......

  6. #21
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    Sep 2012
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    Seattle WA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Narco View Post
    Fangio's scheme is to keep everything in front of the defense and read and react. It results in turnovers, but everything is based on getting pressure without blitzing.

    Wade's scheme is about making an offense react to what his defense is doing. It's about playing man, playing tight coverage and making the QB panic and make mistakes.
    If Fangio's scheme is designed to create turnovers, then where are they? Seems like this defense is reading at a 2nd grade level...

  7. #22
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    Wade would have had a three man line with Miller/Chubb playing OLB. Fangio has Miller/Chubb playing DE on a four man line.

  8. #23
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    In Wades defense, itís more one on one, a Mono E mono style.

    For example: Bradley Roby could be losing his match up but as long as Aaron Rodgers didnít see it, and went after Talib and Talib makes a play, Robys loss didnít matter much.

    In Vic Fangioís defense, everyone has to work together and be on the same page. Everyone has to cover there zones and be aware of where everyone is at.

    Simmons and Parks are good, Josey Jewell is good but at times they are confused and not really understanding where they are supposed to be.

    If you have time go to NFL Game Pass nfl.com. There is all-22 angle, but it's subscription only so youíll have to sign up.

    After going back and looking up film from last season I realize that Fangio does not blitz. Rarely does he blitz and when you really think about it, Denver does not have the personnel along defensive line that they have in Chicago.

    Perhaps Denver shouldíve looked more at Chuck Pagano because the Bears defense seems to be playing a lot better under him then they did for Fangio however.
    Last edited by Sam_Z; 09-24-2019 at 01:40 PM.

  9. #24
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    Mar 2004
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    where the hills touch heaven
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    there many differences but for fangios defenses to work it needs pressure, there is absolutely zero interior pressure for whatever reason , maybe we should have kept kerr and let harris spell him?

    defensive snaps, % counts DL

    Harris 129, 73.3%
    gotsis 109, 61.9%
    wolfe 112, 63.6%
    walker, 55, 31.3%
    DJones 24, 13.6%
    Purcell 17, 9.7%

    sending some disguised blitzes would help

  10. #25
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
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    13,712
    Quote Originally Posted by Rastic View Post
    Man vs zone vs press vs... doesn't matter in the big picture. What matters are the players a coach has and how they work in their system or a coaches ability to adapt them to fit in the scheme. Wade has had a lot of recent success but had had his ups and downs. Fangio had some stellar years in Chicago but not so great years elsewhere.

    We should have a fairly good front line but have not created much pressure and that is highly concerning because it doesn't make sense. Our run defense was suspect even before the season began with injury and personnel so I am not that surprised - ILB has been a need for some time. Our secondary... meh.. caught a bad break to a key piece with Callahan out and depth has clearly been an issue.

    I'd like to see more blitzes and not just because. Fangio likes to hide what the defense is doing and I think throwing more blitzes in ought to cause more disruption to the offense trying to counter by having to consider where extra pressure might be coming from. I think he has been playing too conservative and playing defense on defense rather than attacking more.

    He's made adjustments, perhaps too slow for us fans. More press or man isn't the answer if your young CB is slow to react - he's actually split coverage with Harris in press man coverage on one side of the field and Yiadom off the ball with the safety moved on his side for extra protection, just as an example, in the Raiders game. The problem is that isn't the singular problem, it's the scheme as a whole that is not working, not just the secondary.

    Bring more heat up front, stunts, blitzes, etc, not to replace but to augment. More pressure on the QB on passing downs will clean up things in the secondary. They might get burned for a big play here and there but how is that really different from what we are seeing already?
    On the topic of blitzing, does anyone have numbers on our blitz percentage through 3 games ? I am seeing a lot of people calling for more blitzes to create pressure, however against the Packers Aaron Rodgers threw for 149 yards of offense when we sent extra defenders, it was really the only time he was productive and made chunk plays. When you consider that and the fact he only threw for 235 yards on the game, you could say the idea of blitzing more would effectively be doing more of what hurt us last time out. I feel like people are calling for it just for the sake of it, without actually watching what is happening, we have sent numerous blitzes and been burned, against the Packers anyway.

  11. #26
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    Dec 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by arapaho View Post
    there many differences but for fangios defenses to work it needs pressure, there is absolutely zero interior pressure for whatever reason , maybe we should have kept kerr and let harris spell him?

    defensive snaps, % counts DL

    Harris 129, 73.3%
    gotsis 109, 61.9%
    wolfe 112, 63.6%
    walker, 55, 31.3%
    DJones 24, 13.6%
    Purcell 17, 9.7%


    sending some disguised blitzes would help
    They are all bad with exception to Jones and Purcell since they really havenít had much time to grow into pros yet.

    Gotsis is the worst of them with Walker very close behind him.

  12. #27
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    Jan 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by icedutah View Post
    This is what seems to be the big diff. We need more blitzes!!!! Wade scheme was so much better. Players moving around before snap. Faking blitz or a real blitz? QB's don't know.
    Talib wasnít too happy with some of the aggressiveness against the Browns. They made some mistakes blitzing when they didnít need to blitz to get pressure.

    What the Broncos need is for Fangio to figure out how to best use the players he has and do do what works for them rather than trying to get them to do what works for him.
    Negs are Cowardly Acts of Nonsense. I wonít Back Down.
    No Matter How Stupid Your Comments Are!
    Still Not Backing Down!!!

  13. #28
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    Nov 2004
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    13,301
    Quote Originally Posted by justabroncosfan View Post
    Thanks in advance for enlightening me.
    Not an Xs and Os guy ..I only know what I have seen coaches and players say over the decades.

    1. IMO the single thing that makes Wade one of the greatest all time.... There is a great video of Wade talling about how he makes his 3-4 work. Maybe someone can find it. It was posted on these threads shortly after he came to us. He talks about how his 3-4 will change depending in the players he has. If you look at his defenses over the decades you can see he has had good players but not always the same type of players.

    This sounds simple right...build a defense around your players....imo most coaches in the NFL try to push players into their scheme and imo that is why so many coaches get fired every year.

    While I know Wade very well I am still learning about Vic.

    2. Zone vs Man does matter. Some qbs have the ability to just tear apart zone defenses. Some players do not have the ability to play both man and zone at a high level. If it were Madden it would not matter....when talking about scheming for the opponent and a DC putting the players he has in best position to succeed....man vs zone matters.

    3. Wade did have better talent. We have essentially spent every year since 2015 letting talent go....and frankly more often than not I see posters on these boards applaud the move. Maybe not Malik or Trev but Talib, Ward, Roby....these guys played well under Wade.

    It is hard to keep talented teams in the NFL. It is why very few teams keep winning year in and year out.

    One thing I would stress is we been a badly coached team for years now. Every year we have seen more talent leave then come in at almost every position.

    Vic was not going to turn this ship around in 3 games. No head coach could have.
    Last edited by Hadez; 09-25-2019 at 06:41 AM.

  14. #29
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    May 2008
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    2,150
    I love Wade, but he also had a pretty loaded roster. This roster is a mere shadow of what it used to be.

  15. #30
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    Apr 2008
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    Gtown
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    The Broncos don't have a single Defensive "takeaway" or a single "sack". And the Defense can't stop the run up the middle. Denver simply doesn't have the talent to run a 3-man Defensive line. They don't have a "nose tackle" , and they don't have big, athletic Defensive Ends. And they also don't have a coach with the ability to adapt to the talent that they do have.

    Hope this helps!!!

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