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  1. #16
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    Aug 2019
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    320
    Seems like the divide is between those who want to fire Elway and those who don't. Most people agree we are bad right now. It's just a matter who we think is most to blame, and who we think should or shouldn't be around to try to fix things.

  2. #17
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    Mar 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by Letswinplz77 View Post
    Instinctively it feels like there are 3 camps; 1) Time for a rebuild, trade the big dollar older talent (Miller, Harris, Sanders, possibly Flacco [or just release him]). 2) We are one or two players away from fixing this mess. 3) We have the pieces now, we just need better discipline, better schemes, better coaches.

    What have I missed? A combo of these things?

    Personally I think the best way forward is to cut bait with Bolles, Miller, Harris, Sanders and Flacco, and get as much draft capital as we can and build from the draft around Chubb, Sutton, Risner, Lindsay, Freeman, Fant, and the young D talent we have. My addition to this thought is that someone other than John Elway needs to do the building (i.e. the drafting).

    Thoughts?
    your forgetting the flacco is the worst qb in the history of history, we are saddened to outright despair over him starting for us camp

    or the Elway is the scourge of the broncos , he has single handed without consultation from anyone chose player after player that has cripped this team for the forseeable future, may God have mercy on his soul CAMP

  3. #18
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    Dec 2015
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    Virginia
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    Quote Originally Posted by Letswinplz77 View Post
    Instinctively it feels like there are 3 camps; 1) Time for a rebuild, trade the big dollar older talent (Miller, Harris, Sanders, possibly Flacco [or just release him]). 2) We are one or two players away from fixing this mess. 3) We have the pieces now, we just need better discipline, better schemes, better coaches.

    What have I missed? A combo of these things?

    Personally I think the best way forward is to cut bait with Bolles, Miller, Harris, Sanders and Flacco, and get as much draft capital as we can and build from the draft around Chubb, Sutton, Risner, Lindsay, Freeman, Fant, and the young D talent we have. My addition to this thought is that someone other than John Elway needs to do the building (i.e. the drafting).

    Thoughts?
    The Broncos need a new GM and Director of Player Personnel. They would in turn need to bring in staff/scouts to implement the new vision and direction.

    They would need the first option approach to begin the tough work of rebuilding the team. Start with trading Von Miller and releasing Joe Flacco. The new regime would need to begin this process immediately following introduction at Dove Valley.

    Create cap space, build draft capital and begin the process of rebuilding the team.

  4. #19
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    San Antonio
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    Quote Originally Posted by arapaho View Post
    your forgetting the flacco is the worst qb in the history of history, we are saddened to outright despair over him starting for us camp

    or the Elway is the scourge of the broncos , he has single handed without consultation from anyone chose player after player that has cripped this team for the forseeable future, may God have mercy on his soul CAMP
    Why do you keep antagonizing anyone who has never shared your opinion?

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Buckeye Nation
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    8,976
    I'm ready for a rebuild but I'm not confident Elway is the person to do the job! I'm also not ready to just trade everyone either! I'd keep Von, Chubb, Lindsey, Royce, Sutton & players like that. With the way they restructured Flacco's contract I don't think it allows them to just cut bait with him without some kind of penalty now though.
    Dread it.Run from it.
    Destiny arrives all the same.

  6. #21
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    Sep 2012
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    AZ
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    I don't know that I fit in any of those camps, if so probably would fit most into camp three. I believe we have most the talent, and it's just going to take a little bit for them to all gel together. I can't believe people could compare what we have now to last year. I think we're way better, but have also had some bad calls as well that have cost us.

    Almost every game last year, it was like nails on a chalkboard when VJ would say, "We had a good practice." I don't feel that way at all about Fangio, still happy with Fangio even with 3 losses. I'll start expecting more a little later in the season and next season, but I'm still happier at 0-3 than I was at any time last season. I don't want to see any of our talent be traded. I see our defense is putting pressure, and know the sacks are gonna start coming again soon. The only player I'm good with saying goodbye to at this time is Bolles.... I'm sure it's not his fault that when there's not numerous holding calls, the QB is on the ground the last few years ... I see a lot I like this year, even with three losses.

    Adopted Bronco - 2016/17 - Trevor Siemian
    Adopted Bronco - 2017/18 - Chris Harris Jr. # 25 to every player he covers
    Adopted Bronco - 2018/19 - Derek Wolfe
    Adopted Bronco - 2019/20 - Shelby Harris

  7. #22
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
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    Virginia
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    Quote Originally Posted by ELWAY421 View Post
    I'm ready for a rebuild but I'm not confident Elway is the person to do the job! I'm also not ready to just trade everyone either! I'd keep Von, Chubb, Lindsey, Royce, Sutton & players like that. With the way they restructured Flacco's contract I don't think it allows them to just cut bait with him without some kind of penalty now though.
    I can see both sides with respect to keeping Von Miller. Even if he plays better the rest of this season, he’s on the other side of 30. Trading him would net $32 million cap savings over 2020-21. The only “penalty” for releasing Flacco is the dead money for converting most of 2019 salary to signing bonus. Releasing him would net $27.5 million cap savings over 2020-21. Those two moves alone add nearly $60 million in cap space.

    Several quality players can be added to the roster with those savings. How often do we hear fans say, “We need ILB, TE, CB and LT”. The Broncos need cap space to get the players required to be competitive. I would agree the question is whether or not Elway would spend the dollars on the right players. Just because he caught lightning in a bottle once doesn’t mean he can do it again.

    Then you go through the roster player by player. Derek Wolfe, 2020 UFA should be gone. Emmanuel Sanders, 2020 UFA should be gone. We hear people weekly defending Joe Flacco by saying, “Our receivers aren’t getting open”. Then why do we need Emmanuel Sanders?

    If we look at the history of the Broncos, success was predicated with change. Greatness requires doing the things most people don’t want to do.

  8. #23
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
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    land of the firebird
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    8,060
    I think we need to give the coaches a chance and get better players. Stop with the "there is no plan b" short sidedness. Draft better and grow as a team. Im not part of the "microwave" society. We have had 3 superbowl wins in the past 30 years....i expect some down years

  9. #24
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
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    where the hills touch heaven
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheAsianPA View Post
    Why do you keep antagonizing anyone who has never shared your opinion?
    Why do people antagonize those trying to follow our team with a continued and endless whine about everything
    Flacco
    Elway
    Wade leaving
    Von
    Drafts

    On and on and on

  10. #25
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    May 2010
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    FORT COLLINS COLORADO
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    7,735
    On the train for TANK FOR TUA BABY

    oakland raders gm
    latavis murray trade bait

  11. #26
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
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    Ontario, Canada
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    In Theory I think we should be in #3 above. I am just not certain or convinced that our FO and 'management' are capable of bridging the gap(s) which we as a team currently have. WHY - you may ask....well we have had the same issues since the end of the 2015 season.

    We opted to try and keep the guy at ILB who was liked and tackled poorly vs the speed and instinct guy (Marshall vs Trevathan). We then failed to address the CB position but yet continued to thin those veteran players we had. We drafted a NT in S.Williams who is now on his 4th team in as many years. Since leaving we have failed to truly address that position. Then there is M.Jackson & D.Wolfe since their tandem we have been targeting the bottom tier FA's at the DE position and it is JUST not working. Those are just the glaring defensive issues. If we are to summarize these issues and translate what that means on the field for us: A - we are not getting middle pressure on opposing offenses. We are sloppy in CB&DB coverage & we are failing to properly cover TE's, RB's and Slot guys in the short passing game.

    On the offensive side of the ball I think we are better but the stats certainly wouldn't show it. Mainly because we have continued to shop in the bargain bin for the QB of the team. On top of that we have truly failed to address the tackle position. When those two are combined throwing the ball down-field is simply an issue. As is offensive production in general.

  12. #27
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    Aug 2012
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    Ontario, Canada
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    Quote Originally Posted by armedequation View Post
    I think we need to give the coaches a chance and get better players. Stop with the "there is no plan b" short sidedness. Draft better and grow as a team. Im not part of the "microwave" society. We have had 3 superbowl wins in the past 30 years....i expect some down years
    AS do I BUT and this is a BIG ONE - where I personally begin to get annoyed is that the team continues to NOT properly address the major issues we have, which are the same year in and year out. At some point our team's ownership/senior leadership needs to step in and say FIX IT. I'd even argue that some of the players which so many on these boards are touting as good or great draft picks really aren't

    - Josey Jewel
    - DeSean Hamilton
    - Sam Jones
    - Keishawn Bierria
    - David Williams

    We haven't see enough of:
    - Troy Fumagalli

    One player for me who is on and off the 1st list of not being good is Isaac Yiadom. He seems to have stretches where is plays well and then other stretches where you wonder if he has played football before. My approach and mentality is NOT expecting "Microwave" results. I do however expect to see guys like C.Sutton who are clearly maturing and getting better as their experience in the NFL grows.

  13. #28
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Lake Zurich, IL (Colorado Raised)
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    448
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa-pwn View Post
    With 2019 looking like his 5th consecutive season of well below average QB play, there will be no trade market for Flacco. There hardly was this last offseason.
    If a trade market existed this year with Keenum, then there will be one for Flacco.....
    AMPIPE

  14. #29
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    Sep 2012
    Location
    Seattle WA
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    1,323
    Quote Originally Posted by skeeter01 View Post
    We need an ILB that has Moxy. We need another Randy, Karl or Al. Not sure if Bush was that guy....maybe....I was on board with the trade back......but - We need a thumper that leads this team. Physically and vocally.

    I guess I'm in the rebuild mold.
    My favorite LB of all time is Jack Lambert. That's good ole punch you in the face football. Granted, a lot of what he did back in the 70's would draw a flag today, but he had the intensity and drive that this team sorely lacks.

  15. #30
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Las Manzanitas, NM
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    30,941
    Quote Originally Posted by Rich_C View Post
    AS do I BUT and this is a BIG ONE - where I personally begin to get annoyed is that the team continues to NOT properly address the major issues we have, which are the same year in and year out. At some point our team's ownership/senior leadership needs to step in and say FIX IT. I'd even argue that some of the players which so many on these boards are touting as good or great draft picks really aren't

    - Josey Jewel
    - DeSean Hamilton
    - Sam Jones
    - Keishawn Bierria
    - David Williams

    We haven't see enough of:
    - Troy Fumagalli

    One player for me who is on and off the 1st list of not being good is Isaac Yiadom. He seems to have stretches where is plays well and then other stretches where you wonder if he has played football before. My approach and mentality is NOT expecting "Microwave" results. I do however expect to see guys like C.Sutton who are clearly maturing and getting better as their experience in the NFL grows.
    David Williams was a 7th round pick last year who is currently a free agent.

    Sam Jones was a 6th round pick last year who is currently on Arizona's PS.

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