Should John Elway be fired?

[broncos SB2010]

So now we're attacking Elway the football player. This Franchise has 3 super bowl titles because of Elway's contributions.

I understand that everyone is upset with how the year is going but John Elway is the Denver Broncos and we should all be thankful for that as we have been one of the leagues most successful franchise's since he was drafted.

must spread rep....

[beastlyskronk]

I don’t feel that he is capable but I’d like to know how much he’s allowed to spend on each player.

He’s refused to pay his own guys like Matt Paradis and CHJ while paying multiple guys more such as Bryce Callahan, Kareem Jackson and a Juwann James.

If this was solely on Elway then yes I’d say this a HUGE fail but could it be that someone else behind the scenes won’t sign off on a few million more to one player such as CHJ or Matt Paradis?

We all saw how long it took Von Miller to get paid, we all saw how PFM was forced to take a pay cut!

I’m pretty sure most of this is on Elway but I wouldn’t be surprised if Eliss isn’t pulling some baloney behind the scenes.

There’s a narrative that Elway plays hard ball with FAs from our team and others but when Elway was coming up on an expiring contract we saw Ellis take a similar approach with Elway for very little reason. I don’t remember any contract extension being such a hot topic for any GM. I definitely think Ellis is the reason Elway has to go dumpster diving for talent every offseason since the big push for a Super Bowl.

[arapaho]

When DMac asked Adam Schefter if the GM should be fired, Schefter said

“that’s absurd who’s gonna fire him, he’s john Elway”.

It’s really sad and the questions wasn’t
“would he be fired” it was “should he be fired”!

I cannot believe the pass he is getting.

No where else would somebody without any experience be allowed to run a billion dollar company, experiment and get it wrong year after year.

Guess we’ll just have to watch merchandise and ticket sales plummet.

Now give me the list of Gms that took over a 4-12 team... and rebuilt a team that went to the Super Bowl by year three, went again in year five and won

[Sam_Z]

Now give me the list of Gms that took over a 4-12 team... and rebuilt a team that went to the Super Bowl by year three, went again in year five and won

So as long as I make employee of the month in my first month at a new job, it is then ok for me to slack off and fail miserably for the next year?

Why don’t you try listening to reason from all other posters in here opposed to whining over those that no longer believe in the executive as much as you’d prefer.

[Sam_Z]

There’s a narrative that Elway plays hard ball with FAs from our team and others but when Elway was coming up on an expiring contract we saw Ellis take a similar approach with Elway for very little reason. I don’t remember any contract extension being such a hot topic for any GM. I definitely think Ellis is the reason Elway has to go dumpster diving for talent every offseason since the big push for a Super Bowl.

Yep my point exactly! It is very possible and if true, why isn’t there more speculation or discussion on the topic is what I would like to know.

[Fantaztic7]

Now give me the list of Gms that took over a 4-12 team... and rebuilt a team that went to the Super Bowl by year three, went again in year five and won

The Seattle Seahawks were 4-12 and 5-11 in 2008 and 2009, respectively. John Schneider was hired as Executive Vice President and General Manager in 2010. The Seahawks won one Super Bowl, lost one and followed with 42 wins, 25 losses and 1 tie.

John Schneider would likely be fired had he mismanaged the Seahawks in the manner Elway has with the Broncos. Early success isn’t enough when it’s followed with a complete collapse.

[beastlyskronk]

Yep my point exactly! It is very possible but why isn’t there more speculation or discussion on the topic is what I would like to know.

It’s easier to blame Elway because he’s the face.

But reading between the lines over the years, I firmly believe Ellis has ran this team into the ground with his ego. Ellis became CEO in 2008, Shanahan was fired in 2008. Ellis hires McDaniels and convinced Bowlen to sign off on trading Cutler. Good decision to trade Cutler but there was no backup plan. I don’t buy into Cutler being offended by McDaniels comments on Matt Cassel, I don’t think there’s anything that can be beyond repair with Cutler. Ellis wanted to purge the roster of Shannahan’s guys. McDaniels proceeds to derail the team. After the McD era I believe Ellis realized he was in over his head, enter John Elway. Elway hires Fox for the rebuild, great decision. Early drafts are heavy on college production and high character guys. Elway seals the deal with Manning. After coming close all the chips are put in on big name FA talent to get us over the hump. 2014 is also the year that there was a philosophy shift in the draft with athletes being first choice over the type of guys we had been drafting. I think Ellis was embarrassed after the Seattle debacle and started meddling around this time. Then we win a super bowl with arguably the worst QB play ever. Now Ellis is back on his ego trip. I think this played a role in Brock leaving for Houston (who knows what he would’ve been with more time under Kubiak vs learning a whole new scheme). Again there’s no backup plan here, seems familiar. An offseason of dumpster diving because hey we just won the super bowl with historically bad QB play so we can do it again. Kubiak leaves VJ gets hired. The media pushed this as Elways plan for awhile but what connection did Elway have to him? I know there’s the Russell/VJ connection. But Kyle Shanahan literally made too much sense and Elway has multiple connections to him. Then after one season Elway wants to fire Joseph and bring in Mike Shanahan. i think more was discussed in that meeting than the coaching spot as we see a shift back to Elway’s original draft philosophy. On top of all of this Ellis has been adamant that the older Bowlen daughter isn’t qualified to be the owner and there’s rumors that they’re grooming the younger Bowlen daughter for the position. I’m not against that move personally but I do find it odd that there isn’t any compromise even attempting to be made.

I know it sounds like a crackpot conspiracy fabricated to make Elway look good but it makes sense to me.

[Southern Bronco]

Wont happen until we have ownership. That is the key. we need strong ownership to hold Elway accountable. we are bad until then.

I was assuming as Trustee Ellis could insist on placing someone over Elway in the interest of protecting the “asset value” of the Trust. Does he not have that kind of pull (honestly don’t know)?

[arapaho]

So as long as I make employee of the month in my first month at a new job, it is then ok for me to slack off and fail miserably for the next year?

Why don’t you try listening to reason from all other posters in here opposed to whining over those that no longer believe in the executive as much as you’d prefer.

That’s the stupidest analogy I’ve seen ... I have lost five seconds of my life reading it

I’d take it more like a business is bankrupt going under, and a new CEO takes the reins and completely flips the company to a profit making business in two years, wins prestigious business awards

Then the business has another bad run

Look I get it... you hate elway, there’s nothing elway has done at all that is satisfying to you

Elway could flip this and win the SB next year
And you would gripe because a key player was a FA or could have been drafted a round later

[Sam_Z]

That’s the stupidest analogy I’ve seen ... I have lost five seconds of my life reading it

I’d take it more like a business is bankrupt going under, and a new CEO takes the reins and completely flips the company to a profit making business in two years, wins prestigious business awards

Then the business has another bad run

Look I get it... you hate elway, there’s nothing elway has done at all that is satisfying to you

Elway could flip this and win the SB next year
And you would gripe because a key player was a FA or could have been drafted a round later

So what if I hated Elway (which I don’t) but that’d be none of your business anyway so don’t worry about it Rap...

“Elway could flip this and win the SB” yeah right that ain’t going to happen. What universe are you living in?

You don’t want to accept things the way they are, that is fine but quit bringing your feeling to the forum crying every time I say something you don’t like.

Now I’ll tell you what I do hate and that is when other posters try to put words into my mouth.

Now again, if you can’t take the heat then get out of the kitchen. Perhaps you could go to smack and attempt to impress baph with another silly post game thread!

Hey Guys, try to be a little more sensitive in here when discussing John Elway, Rap still hasn’t accepted reality!

[Sam_Z]

It’s easier to blame Elway because he’s the face.

But reading between the lines over the years, I firmly believe Ellis has ran this team into the ground with his ego. Ellis became CEO in 2008, Shanahan was fired in 2008. Ellis hires McDaniels and convinced Bowlen to sign off on trading Cutler. Good decision to trade Cutler but there was no backup plan. I don’t buy into Cutler being offended by McDaniels comments on Matt Cassel, I don’t think there’s anything that can be beyond repair with Cutler. Ellis wanted to purge the roster of Shannahan’s guys. McDaniels proceeds to derail the team. After the McD era I believe Ellis realized he was in over his head, enter John Elway. Elway hires Fox for the rebuild, great decision. Early drafts are heavy on college production and high character guys. Elway seals the deal with Manning. After coming close all the chips are put in on big name FA talent to get us over the hump. 2014 is also the year that there was a philosophy shift in the draft with athletes being first choice over the type of guys we had been drafting. I think Ellis was embarrassed after the Seattle debacle and started meddling around this time. Then we win a super bowl with arguably the worst QB play ever. Now Ellis is back on his ego trip. I think this played a role in Brock leaving for Houston (who knows what he would’ve been with more time under Kubiak vs learning a whole new scheme). Again there’s no backup plan here, seems familiar. An offseason of dumpster diving because hey we just won the super bowl with historically bad QB play so we can do it again. Kubiak leaves VJ gets hired. The media pushed this as Elways plan for awhile but what connection did Elway have to him? I know there’s the Russell/VJ connection. But Kyle Shanahan literally made too much sense and Elway has multiple connections to him. Then after one season Elway wants to fire Joseph and bring in Mike Shanahan. i think more was discussed in that meeting than the coaching spot as we see a shift back to Elway’s original draft philosophy. On top of all of this Ellis has been adamant that the older Bowlen daughter isn’t qualified to be the owner and there’s rumors that they’re grooming the younger Bowlen daughter for the position. I’m not against that move personally but I do find it odd that there isn’t any compromise even attempting to be made.

I know it sounds like a crackpot conspiracy fabricated to make Elway look good but it makes sense to me.

Ive heard that John’s fate with the organization coincides with Joe Eliss however Maybe John actually stands behind Beth Bowlen Wallace. I do know that she holds Mike Shanahan in very high regard so why not John.

[broncos SB2010]

Ive heard that John’s fate with the organization coincides with Joe Eliss however Maybe John actually stands behind Beth Bowlen Wallace. I do know that she holds Mike Shanahan in very high regard so why not John.

you bring up a valid point. With ownership under a control battle, no one will be fired because someone will lose support for ownership

[arapaho]

The Seattle Seahawks were 4-12 and 5-11 in 2008 and 2009, respectively. John Schneider was hired as Executive Vice President and General Manager in 2010. The Seahawks won one Super Bowl, lost one and followed with 42 wins, 25 losses and 1 tie.

John Schneider would likely be fired had he mismanaged the Seahawks in the manner Elway has with the Broncos. Early success isn’t enough when it’s followed with a complete collapse.

and the seahawks have a franchise QB...right? a surprise from the 3rd round, after signing Matt Flynn to be the starter before the draft

did they lose a HOF qb after they won the Superbowl? did pete carroll resign a year after winning for health reasons??

[arapaho]

Sam_Z
All-show
so what if I hated Elway (which I don’t) but that’d be none of your business anyway so don’t worry about it Rap...

“Elway could flip this and win the SB” yeah right that ain’t going to happen. What universe are you living in?

You don’t want to accept things the way they are, that is fine but quit bringing your feeling to the forum crying every time I say something you don’t like.

Now I’ll tell you what I do hate and that is when other posters try to put words into my mouth.

Now again, if you can’t take the heat then get out of the kitchen. Perhaps you could go to smack and attempt to impress baph with another silly post game thread!

lol ...your the one that keeps following me crying about Elway sonny

and it is my business because you sit here day after day blaming him for everything you can think of....if it wasn't my business it wouldn't be on a public forum sonny

Elway builds the best offense in years...well that's on manning...elways builds the best defense in years...well that's wade

elway has bad drafts...well that's 100 % on Elway...he is the scouting department, player evaluation department and makes the draft board entirely by himself with out a shred of input from anyone ...right?

Elway has a good draft...well that wasn't Elway it was kubiak, or he let the scouts, scout...its always a reason

there is no team GM, that scouts, draws up the player profiles and makes a draft board by himself

.a good draft is a combination of personal from reginal scouts which the broncos have 12, to the director of college scouting, to director of player personel, head coaches, OC, DC and yes the GM

yes crap rolls up hill...bad drafts are reflected to the top...but unless you can show me where Elway simply ignores the scouting department, coaches choices and overrides that...people gripe about Gotsis...I recall Koller in the news talking about pounding the table demanding they get him gotsis

he got his player

blaming Elway for everything gone wrong is about as asinine as blaming flacco for losing to the bears and jags

is Elway part of the problem, sure...but name his replacement that is guaranteed to return this team to the top

[BeelzeBob]

and the seahawks have a franchise QB...right? a surprise from the 3rd round, after signing Matt Flynn to be the starter before the draft

did they lose a HOF qb after they won the Superbowl? did pete carroll resign a year after winning for health reasons??

Schneider drafted that franchise QB. Elway could have drafted him instead, but opted for Brock Osweiler. You're really not helping yourself here.