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  1. #1
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    Officiating - Roughing the Passer

    At some point the NFL NEEDS to step in and stop with these roughing the passer calls. If there is ANY doubt as a fan I think it would be fair and OK if the call was reviewed simply because the way the rule is written is that it ADDS 15 yards to the back-end of the play. Much like it did for us.


    Here is the contact which Von made with Minchew



    and




    It is clear that Von is trying to swat the ball and arm to prevent the pass all along being push and blocked from behind.


    Now the rule"

    ROUGHING THE PASSER

    Because the act of passing often puts the quarterback (or any other player attempting a pass) in a position where he is particularly vulnerable to injury, special rules against roughing the passer apply. The Referee has principal responsibility for enforcing these rules. Any physical acts against a player who is in a passing posture (i.e. before, during, or after a pass) which, in the Referee’s judgment, are unwarranted by the circumstances of the play will be called as fouls. The Referee will be guided by the following principles:

    Roughing will be called if, in the Referee’s judgment, a pass rusher clearly should have known that the ball had already left the passer’s hand before contact was made; pass rushers are responsible for being aware of the position of the ball in passing situations; the Referee will use the release of the ball from the passer’s hand as his guideline that the passer is now fully protected; once a pass has been released by a passer, a rushing defender may make direct contact with the passer only up through the rusher’s first step after such release (prior to second step hitting the ground); thereafter the rusher must be making an attempt to avoid contact and must not continue to “drive through” or otherwise forcibly contact the passer; incidental or inadvertent contact by a player who is easing up or being blocked into the passer will not be considered significant.
    A rushing defender is prohibited from committing such intimidating and punishing acts as “stuffing” a passer into the ground or unnecessarily wrestling or driving him down after the passer has thrown the ball, even if the rusher makes his initial contact with the passer within the one-step limitation provided for in (a) above. When tackling a passer who is in a defenseless posture (e.g., during or just after throwing a pass), a defensive player must not unnecessarily or violently throw him down or land on top of him with all or most of the defender’s weight. Instead, the defensive player must strive to wrap up the passer with the defensive player’s arms and not land on the passer with all or most of his body weight.
    In covering the passer position, Referees will be particularly alert to fouls in which defenders impermissibly use the helmet and/or facemask to hit the passer, or use hands, arms, or other parts of the body to hit the passer forcibly in the head or neck area (see also the other unnecessary roughness rules covering these subjects). A defensive player must not use his helmet against a passer who is in a defenseless posture—for example, (1) forcibly hitting the passer’s head or neck area with the helmet or facemask, even if the initial contact of the defender’s helmet or facemask is lower than the passer’s neck, and regardless of whether the defensive player also uses his arms to tackle the passer by encircling or grasping him; or (2) lowering the head and making forcible contact with any part of the helmet against any part of the passer’s body. This rule does not prohibit incidental contact by the mask or non-crown parts of the helmet in the course of a conventional tackle on a passer.
    A defensive player is prohibited from clubbing the arm of a passer during a pass or just after a pass has been thrown; however, a defensive player may grasp, pull, or otherwise make normal contact with a passer’s arm in attempting to tackle him.
    A rushing defender is prohibited from forcibly hitting in the knee area or below a passer who has one or both feet on the ground, even if the initial contact is above the knee. It is not a foul if the defender is blocked (or fouled) into the passer and has no opportunity to avoid him.

    Notes

    A defender cannot initiate a roll or lunge and forcibly hit the passer in the knee area or below, even if he is being contacted by another player.
    It is not a foul if the defender swipes or grabs a passer in the knee area or below in an attempt to tackle him, provided he does not make forcible contact with the helmet, shoulder, chest, or forearm.
    A passer who is standing still or fading backward after the ball has left his hand is obviously out of the play and must not be unnecessarily contacted by an opponent through the end of the down or until the passer becomes a blocker, or a runner, or, in the event of a change of possession during the down, until he assumes a distinctly defensive position. However, at any time after the change of possession, it is a foul if:

    an opponent forcibly hits the quarterback’s head or neck area with his helmet, facemask, forearm, or shoulder

    if an opponent lowers his head and makes forcible contact with any part of his helmet against any part of the passer’s body. This provision does not prohibit incidental contact by the mask or the helmet in the course of a conventional block.
    When the passer goes outside the pocket area and either continues moving with the ball (without attempting to advance the ball as a runner) or throws while on the run, he loses the protection of the one-step rule provided for in (a) above, and the protection against a low hit provided for in (e) above, but he remains covered by all the other special protections afforded to a passer in the pocket (b, c, d, and f), as well as the regular unnecessary roughness rules applicable to all player positions. If the passer stops behind the line and clearly establishes a passing posture, he will then be covered by all of the special protections for passers.
    The Referee must blow the play dead as soon as the passer is clearly in the grasp and control of any tackler behind the line, and the passer’s safety is in jeopardy.

    Note: A player who initiates contact against a passer is responsible for avoiding an illegal act. This includes illegal contact that may occur during the process of attempting to dislodge the ball. A standard of strict liability applies for any contact against a passer, irrespective of any acts by the passer, such as ducking his head or curling up his body in anticipation of contact.

    Penalty: For Roughing the Passer: Loss of 15 yards and an automatic first down; disqualification if flagrant.

    Notes

    When in doubt about a roughness call or potentially dangerous tactic against the quarterback, the Referee should always call roughing the passer.
    See 8-6-1-c–d for personal fouls prior to completion or interception.

    I tried to bold the text in the rule which would or should be relevant. If I missed any please correct. The issue I have here is that the QB dropped the ball and thus possession changed (to neutral) then the QB picked the ball up again. Von attempted to swat the arm of Minchew and made initial contact BELOW his neck and was being blocked INTO the QB by the opponent. I'd like to know how this was called, why this was called and more importantly WHY this was not spoken about as a group and overturned.

    Now this was the 1st play of the game. NFL please tell me how this is any different? (I'l wait)


  2. #2
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    I think a hit in the throat area will be called every time

  3. #3
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    I can see why they would call it since it was in the neck area, but I’d like to see the refs let that one slide since Von is literally being pushed in the back by one linemen and is falling over another lineman on the ground.

    Or at the least call the roughing the passer and a high/low block on the offense so it offsets. The refs have to let these guys play

  4. #4
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    These roughing the passer calls are too subjective for the officials. This allows the outcome of the game to be greatly influenced by the officials/NFL. Von did not hit him on the neck/head area, he also was being blocked into the QB which had to of influenced where Von's hand/arm landed on the QB. These calls make the NFL look like the WWE.

  5. #5
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    Yeah it was another crap call .

  6. #6
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    But yes officiating has hit rock bottom this year. Cam Robinson did his best Bolles impression on Fournette’s back breaking run trying to rip off either Chubb or Miller’s name tape. There were quite a few missed holding calls. And then the debacle at the end of the game between Simmons and Robinson, shocked nothing was called and neither were ejected.

    At least for the most part out guys weren’t committing the penalties they did in recent weeks.

  7. #7
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    Look

    There are times the refs need to let the players decide these games. I'm so SICK of these officials (tons are new now too) deciding games instead of the friggin teams!!!!

    Minute thirty to go in the game -- keep the flags in your pocket unless it's flagrant
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  8. #8
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    And now with this stupid PI being challengable ......... and the increase of offensive PI calls has DB's flopping!!!! And now we're stopping the game to change the outcome 5% of the time? because the officials sucked in the playoffs last year? WHAT ARE WE DOING NFL

    One thing I could respect about the NFL was only kickers flopped but then the new QB rules changes now QB's flop

    Now the new PI rules and players flop all over the place.

    NFL is ruining their own game with dumb rules. Holding was so prevalent the NFL had to tell the officials to call it less times. I mean what is going on here??? And why are there so many new officials this season
    Red 98

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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by beastlyskronk View Post
    I can see why they would call it since it was in the neck area, but I’d like to see the refs let that one slide since Von is literally being pushed in the back by one linemen and is falling over another lineman on the ground.

    Or at the least call the roughing the passer and a high/low block on the offense so it offsets. The refs have to let these guys play
    I do not see why that call was made at all. The refs literally set the tone by letting g what was nearly an identical play go on the very 1st play of the game. I included a screen cap above. What is worse and 8 did n9tn8nclude the video but the NFL has a publically available video of what each of these major penalties are or should be online. Vons exact "motion" was in the video and mentioned as acc8dentail or incidental contact. They showed the neck area penalty as one which is more flagrant.

  10. #10
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    From what I saw, the hitting area Von targeted (when he launched) shifted... The QB moves and that slight movement altered where impact landed... refs rarely take this into account

    My beef was giving the 6th round rookie QB the call, on the road, when HOF Miller was involved. To get that call, in that spot? Semein or Orton would not have gotten that call...

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by dizzolve View Post
    And now with this stupid PI being challengable ......... and the increase of offensive PI calls has DB's flopping!!!! And now we're stopping the game to change the outcome 5% of the time? because the officials sucked in the playoffs last year? WHAT ARE WE DOING NFL

    One thing I could respect about the NFL was only kickers flopped but then the new QB rules changes now QB's flop

    Now the new PI rules and players flop all over the place.

    NFL is ruining their own game with dumb rules. Holding was so prevalent the NFL had to tell the officials to call it less times. I mean what is going on here??? And why are there so many new officials this season
    All the old officials are taking cushy office jobs and analyst positions. The moment former refs started to be included in the commentary crew for the game, you just knew that the quality of refs were going way down.

    @Rich I do agree the other screenshot of Flacco should’ve been called but that’s just what it is now. I want to blame it on inexperienced officials, I really do but I question the integrity of some of them and I think the NFL should launch an investigation into the officials to make sure there aren’t any bets being placed on games. Last season a ref was fired and the article stated it was due to a bad call or a string of bad calls, but it was just the one ref and no one questioned it despite everyone seeing refs make blatantly terrible calls seemingly every quarter.

  12. #12
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    It’s just another way for the NFL to fix games and control the point spreads.

  13. #13
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    There are two separate penalties for roughing the Kicker.
    There should be the same for roughing the Passer penalties.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by crabcruncher View Post
    There are two separate penalties for roughing the Kicker.
    There should be the same for roughing the Passer penalties.
    That might be one way of doing it BUT I'd argue that this isn't even a roughing the passer call.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich_C View Post
    That might be one way of doing it BUT I'd argue that this isn't even a roughing the passer call.
    It was not roughing the passer imo. It is just the result of a focus of the NFL to protect QBs. Fake Roughing the passer calls are happening all over the NFL
    All I want for Christmas is a Bronco QB controversy

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