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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by beastlyskronk View Post
    Most elite pass rushers get sacks in bunches, the difference between Barrett and Miller (and Mack) is that theyíve done it over multiple seasons. I think most people would look at Barrett and would say this season will be a statistical outlier in his career and that he will fall back into the range of 5-8 sacks a season maybe 8-12 depending on playing time and who he has around him.
    This is the first time Barrett is a starter.

    Itís silly to assume heíll slip into some statistical norm when no such thing exists for him as a starter.

    Teams will have to be careful about what they believe the norm for him will be. Too many players get big money or highly drafted because of one good season that often doesnít get duplicated or surpassed.

    Again, a healthy Chubb who regains his form will make this what if game unnecessary.
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  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by broncolee View Post
    This is the first time Barrett is a starter.

    Itís silly to assume heíll slip into some statistical norm when no such thing exists for him as a starter.

    Teams will have to be careful about what they believe the norm for him will be. Too many players get big money or highly drafted because of one good season that often doesnít get duplicated or surpassed.

    Again, a healthy Chubb who regains his form will make this what if game unnecessary.
    I donít think itís silly at all even if it his first full season starting. Derek Wolfe as a rookie posted 6 sacks, most people would assume he would build off that since he was a rookie but when you look back at his sacks they were either coverage sacks and/or cleanup sacks. Good on him for finishing the play but that doesnít make him a good pass rusher and until this season heís never been able to generate pressure quickly, and even then his 7 sacks this year came in 4 games.

    Back to Barrett I do think itís important to note those 7 sacks came against a hobbled Cam who was already notorious for holding the ball too long as well as having poor pocket awareness and a rookie QB making his first start trying to get adjusted to the speed of the game. Is he a solid pass rusher? Absolutely, but I still donít think heís a guy you want to be your top pass rusher. I wonít pretend to know how quickly he got his sacks as I havenít watched him much this season but he wasnít an explosive pass rusher here and often won through technique and power which generally caps a pass rusherís ceiling. If heís somehow become more explosive then yeah he can be a great edge rusher but Iíll need to see more than one season to say that.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by beastlyskronk View Post
    I donít think itís silly at all even if it his first full season starting. Derek Wolfe as a rookie posted 6 sacks, most people would assume he would build off that since he was a rookie but when you look back at his sacks they were either coverage sacks and/or cleanup sacks. Good on him for finishing the play but that doesnít make him a good pass rusher and until this season heís never been able to generate pressure quickly, and even then his 7 sacks this year came in 4 games.

    Back to Barrett I do think itís important to note those 7 sacks came against a hobbled Cam who was already notorious for holding the ball too long as well as having poor pocket awareness and a rookie QB making his first start trying to get adjusted to the speed of the game. Is he a solid pass rusher? Absolutely, but I still donít think heís a guy you want to be your top pass rusher. I wonít pretend to know how quickly he got his sacks as I havenít watched him much this season but he wasnít an explosive pass rusher here and often won through technique and power which generally caps a pass rusherís ceiling. If heís somehow become more explosive then yeah he can be a great edge rusher but Iíll need to see more than one season to say that.
    In the SB, Von dominated the Panthers and Patriots RT who the worst RTs in the league. Is there a qualifier on that peformance as well?

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by broncos SB2010 View Post
    In the SB, Von dominated the Panthers and Patriots RT who the worst RTs in the league. Is there a qualifier on that peformance as well?
    Von has also registered over 100 sacks. Thereís no need to qualify his performance because then youíll be doing it for his entire career. Shaq is in uncharted territory for himself as a player so if youíre trying to determine if heís a flash in the pan or not you have to qualify his performances. A month later against that same Carolina team with Kyle Allen, Shaq registered 1 tackle and that was it.

    Edit: also to note the Patriots RT only allowed 2 sacks that season, the Panthers only 5. Iím willing to bet they were far from the worst RTs in the NFL that year.
    Last edited by beastlyskronk; 12-11-2019 at 10:27 AM.

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by beastlyskronk View Post
    Von has also registered over 100 sacks. There’s no need to qualify his performance because then you’ll be doing it for his entire career. Shaq is in uncharted territory for himself as a player so if you’re trying to determine if he’s a flash in the pan or not you have to qualify his performances. A month later against that same Carolina team with Kyle Allen, Shaq registered 1 tackle and that was it.
    I think if you put qualifiers on one situation, you should do it for all of them. They are pretty similar situations.

    If player does really well against bad players and you say he dominated and did great then player B does great against bad players and you say, well he did well but they were bad players so not so great...that seems like a double standard.
    Last edited by broncos SB2010; 12-11-2019 at 10:31 AM.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by broncos SB2010 View Post
    I think if you put qualifiers on one situation, you should do it for all of them. They are pretty similar situations.
    You want to qualify all of Vonís career? Von has proven himself over the course of time, Shaq hasnít. So far Shaq has proven that for one year (a contract year at that) he was capable of putting up big sack numbers.

    Even Justin Houston put up 22 sacks one season, only 2 other seasons over 10 and none over 12. I bet KC wished they qualified that 22 sack season before paying him elite money for 9 sacks a year after.

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by beastlyskronk View Post
    Von has also registered over 100 sacks. There’s no need to qualify his performance because then you’ll be doing it for his entire career. Shaq is in uncharted territory for himself as a player so if you’re trying to determine if he’s a flash in the pan or not you have to qualify his performances. A month later against that same Carolina team with Kyle Allen, Shaq registered 1 tackle and that was it.

    Edit: also to note the Patriots RT only allowed 2 sacks that season, the Panthers only 5. I’m willing to bet they were far from the worst RTs in the NFL that year.
    Mike remmers and Marcus Cannon, I believe. Believe it or not, they were very bad that season. Maybe not the very worst but close to it.

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by broncos SB2010 View Post
    Mike remmers and Marcus Cannon, I believe. Believe it or not, they were very bad that season. Maybe not the very worst but close to it.
    And Cannon allowed 2 sacks and Remmers only allowed 5. There were plenty of tackles that allowed more

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by beastlyskronk View Post
    And Cannon allowed 2 sacks and Remmers only allowed 5. There were plenty of tackles that allowed more
    Cannon only started 8 games and was the backup before coming in due to injury. They were some of the worst RT in the league, like I said...believe it or not. doesn't matter to me.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by broncos SB2010 View Post
    Cannon only started 8 games and was the backup before coming in due to injury. They were some of the worst RT in the league, like I said...believe it or not. doesn't matter to me.
    Now qualify the rest of Vonís career

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by beastlyskronk View Post
    Now qualify the rest of Von’s career
    that has nothing to do with it....

  12. #87
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    The bottom line on Shaq Barrett, as it pertains to Bradley Chubb, is that itís fair to speculate how he might be helping the Broncos right now if he hadnít been let go.

    Heís having a great season in Tampa.

    Maybe, in Vic Fangioís defense, he could be having a great season for the Broncos.

    Like Iíve said twice before already, if Chubb comes back healthy and gets back on track, we wonít have to play this what if game.
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  13. #88
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    he was not gonna come back at the end of last year. he wanted a chance to start and there where teams that was willing to give him that chance. with Chubb and Miller here he was not gonna start. no one forsee Chubbs injury at the beginning of the year nor in free agency when contracts where signed. to think he would have stayed here at the same contract as he would have gone to place he could have started is crazy. i just don't see what this what if we kept shaq barrett thing started. if we did that then we might as well have drafted Nelson over Chubb, among alot of different things. i just don't see how after drafting Chubb we would keep Barrett is wishful thinking.

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  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyousukeneko View Post
    he was not gonna come back at the end of last year. he wanted a chance to start and there where teams that was willing to give him that chance. with Chubb and Miller here he was not gonna start. no one forsee Chubbs injury at the beginning of the year nor in free agency when contracts where signed. to think he would have stayed here at the same contract as he would have gone to place he could have started is crazy. i just don't see what this what if we kept shaq barrett thing started. if we did that then we might as well have drafted Nelson over Chubb, among alot of different things. i just don't see how after drafting Chubb we would keep Barrett is wishful thinking.
    That's what I said before we drafted Chubb. Everyone ripped on me for suggesting that Barrett could be a solid starter for us and taking Chubb was an unnecessary pick. We could have had Barrett AND Nelson. Now we just have Chubb.

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by broncos SB2010 View Post
    That's what I said before we drafted Chubb. Everyone ripped on me for suggesting that Barrett could be a solid starter for us and taking Chubb was an unnecessary pick. We could have had Barrett AND Nelson. Now we just have Chubb.
    i just don't like these what ifs, or we could have had. we don't so we need to address how to fix build our team now any way. and Chubb should be an important part to that

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