Page 7 of 8 FirstFirst ... 5 6 7 8 LastLast
Results 91 to 105 of 107
  1. #91
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    21,222
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyousukeneko View Post
    i just don't like these what ifs, or we could have had. we don't so we need to address how to fix build our team now any way. and Chubb should be an important part to that
    this is more about those guys on this board that fail to give credit where credit is due. Very few people here are giving any kind of credit to Barrett on his success. Some of the things people have posted are:

    he is only doing well because of Suh
    he is not in the same class as Von and Chubb (even though he is outplaying both of them)
    Chubb and Barrett shouldn't even be in the same sentance
    He only did well against bad players
    he is only playing well because of the scheme
    Chubb is a future star of the league beacuse he had 12 sacks last year and Barrett isn't (even though he has 15 sacks with 3 games to go)

  2. #92
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    21,222
    Quote Originally Posted by Butler By'Note View Post
    And going further down that road, he had 9 sacks after 4 games, and has 15 through 13 games. So which player is he? The 9 players in 4 games? Or the 6 sacks in 9 games?
    6 sacks in 9 games comes out to .66 sacks/game. that averages out to 10.6 sacks/season...still pretty solid. Throw in a few extras here and there (which barrett has gotten) and you are up to 13-14 sacks. That's a good season and one most people would be very happy with for most any pass rusher.

  3. #93
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    FORT COLLINS COLORADO
    Posts
    8,043
    Quote Originally Posted by broncos SB2010 View Post
    this is more about those guys on this board that fail to give credit where credit is due. Very few people here are giving any kind of credit to Barrett on his success. Some of the things people have posted are:

    he is only doing well because of Suh
    he is not in the same class as Von and Chubb (even though he is outplaying both of them)
    Chubb and Barrett shouldn't even be in the same sentance
    He only did well against bad players
    he is only playing well because of the scheme
    Chubb is a future star of the league beacuse he had 12 sacks last year and Barrett isn't (even though he has 15 sacks with 3 games to go)
    i think Chubb is a future star his skills size speed and technic are all really good.

    Barrett has proven to be one of the better pass rushers int he league. he looks more explosive in tampa i think he may have lost some weight also. he is kinda old but should have a pretty good career infront of him. either way i feel about any of the teams in league would take Chubb or Barrett with how they have played at there most recent full seasons. both are very good pass rushers. personally i would have Chubb higher but Barrett has looked really good, he has an explosive step i never really saw in denver.

    oakland raders gm
    latavis murray trade bait

  4. #94
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    10,804
    Quote Originally Posted by broncos SB2010 View Post
    this is more about those guys on this board that fail to give credit where credit is due. Very few people here are giving any kind of credit to Barrett on his success. Some of the things people have posted are:

    he is only doing well because of Suh
    he is not in the same class as Von and Chubb (even though he is outplaying both of them)
    Chubb and Barrett shouldn't even be in the same sentance
    He only did well against bad players
    he is only playing well because of the scheme
    Chubb is a future star of the league beacuse he had 12 sacks last year and Barrett isn't (even though he has 15 sacks with 3 games to go)
    Good for Barrett on a great season. It took him six seasons to break through, while Chubb had a great campaign in his first season. If Barrett can sustain the success, or at least solid numbers heíll have a nice career.

    Interestingly, youíre criticizing others on the board for not giving credit where credit is due. Thatís fair, but you went out of your way to discredit Chubb in his rookie season. Even when it was clear Chubb had a strong rookie campaign, you argued incessantly to the contrary. The double-standard is disingenuous.

  5. #95
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    21,222
    Quote Originally Posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
    Good for Barrett on a great season. It took him six seasons to break through, while Chubb had a great campaign in his first season. If Barrett can sustain the success, or at least solid numbers he’ll have a nice career.

    Interestingly, you’re criticizing others on the board for not giving credit where credit is due. That’s fair, but you went out of your way to discredit Chubb in his rookie season. Even when it was clear Chubb had a strong rookie campaign, you argued incessantly to the contrary. The double-standard is disingenuous.
    I didn't say Chubb had a bad season, just not as good as some were making it out to be. Some people were making out like he was this dominant force all season.

    I said he did well with sacks but some were gimmee sacks (no need to go back there to that discussion, just posting what I said for the record)
    pretty poor in tackling and coverage
    Mediocre in run stopping.
    He is still young and can get better.
    I said if you only look at sacks, he had a great season but if you look at the overall body of work, then not so great.
    I also said his season was better than I thought it would be before the season started.

    I don't think I went out of my way to "discredit" him. I think that is/was a fair assessment of Chubb's season. The bold part is where we disagree. You think he had a great season based on sacks but I think overall it was just ok. It's ok to disagree on things.
    Last edited by broncos SB2010; 12-11-2019 at 05:30 PM.

  6. #96
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    10,804
    Quote Originally Posted by broncos SB2010 View Post
    I didn't say Chubb had a bad season, just not as good as some were making it out to be. Some people were making out like he was this dominant force all season.

    I said he did well with sacks but some were gimmee sacks (no need to go back there to that discussion, just posting what I said for the record)
    pretty poor in tackling and coverage
    Mediocre in run stopping.

    He is still young and can get better.
    I said if you only look at sacks, he had a great season but if you look at the overall body of work, then not so great.
    I also said his season was better than I thought it would be before the season started.

    I don't think I went out of my way to "discredit" him. I think that is/was a fair assessment of Chubb's season. The bold part is where we disagree. You think he had a great season based on sacks but I think overall it was just ok. It's ok to disagree on things.
    Recall, you were wrong by a wide margin predicting how many sacks Chubb would have (you predicted 6). Completely wrong with the comment in bold. Chubb had 41 tackles, 14 tackles for loss, 2 forced fumbles and 21 QB hits. His body of work is backed up by facts, not your opinion.

  7. #97
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    21,222
    Quote Originally Posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
    Recall, you were wrong by a wide margin predicting how many sacks Chubb would have (you predicted 6). Completely wrong with the comment in bold. Chubb had 41 tackles, 14 tackles for loss, 2 forced fumbles and 21 QB hits. His body of work is backed up by facts, not your opinion.
    yep, already said so.

    I'm not basing my opinion of tackling and run stopping on stats. I'm basing it by what I saw on the field. also, tackle stats are misleading.

    12 of his 14 TFL are his 12 sacks, so he had 2 besides those. Are 2 TFL good when you are looking at the run game? Last year, Luke Kuechly had 24.5 TFL but only 2 sacks. See the difference?

    21 of his QB hits again are his 12 sacks so he had 9 besides those and those don't have much to do with the run game and tackling which I said were his weak areas.
    Last edited by broncos SB2010; 12-11-2019 at 06:26 PM.

  8. #98
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    10,804
    Quote Originally Posted by broncos SB2010 View Post
    yep, already said so.

    I'm not basing my opinion of tackling and run stopping on stats. I'm basing it by what I saw on the field. also, tackle stats are misleading.

    12 of his 14 TFL are his 12 sacks, so he had 2 besides those. Are 2 TFL good when you are looking at the run game? Last year, Luke Kuechly had 24.5 TFL but only 2 sacks. See the difference?

    21 of his QB hits again are his 12 sacks so he had 9 besides those and those don't have much to do with the run game and tackling which I said were his weak areas.
    See bold, which is exactly how youíre basing your opinion of Barrett.

  9. #99
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    FORT COLLINS COLORADO
    Posts
    8,043
    Quote Originally Posted by broncos SB2010 View Post
    yep, already said so.

    I'm not basing my opinion of tackling and run stopping on stats. I'm basing it by what I saw on the field. also, tackle stats are misleading.

    12 of his 14 TFL are his 12 sacks, so he had 2 besides those. Are 2 TFL good when you are looking at the run game? Last year, Luke Kuechly had 24.5 TFL but only 2 sacks. See the difference?

    21 of his QB hits again are his 12 sacks so he had 9 besides those and those don't have much to do with the run game and tackling which I said were his weak areas.
    You are wrong my friend. The NFL does not count sacks as tfl. They are completely different. If you need I can find you stats where some one had more sacks then tfl. Such as in 2018 justin houston had 9 sacks and 8 tfls. If sacks counted for tfls how would that be possible

  10. #100
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Calgary, Alberta
    Posts
    14,710
    Quote Originally Posted by broncos SB2010 View Post
    6 sacks in 9 games comes out to .66 sacks/game. that averages out to 10.6 sacks/season...still pretty solid. Throw in a few extras here and there (which barrett has gotten) and you are up to 13-14 sacks. That's a good season and one most people would be very happy with for most any pass rusher.
    11 sacks in a season is good, but it regresses, closer to what he's been before. Which is why I agree that teams might hesitate to give him a monster contract. He bet on himself and won this year, but he might need to bet on himself again to get the real monster contract.

  11. #101
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    21,222
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyousukeneko View Post
    You are wrong my friend. The NFL does not count sacks as tfl. They are completely different. If you need I can find you stats where some one had more sacks then tfl. Such as in 2018 justin houston had 9 sacks and 8 tfls. If sacks counted for tfls how would that be possible
    you may right.

    I am reading lots of differing definitions on that. One place says that if a FF is caused it doersn't count as TFL but does count as a sack.
    Another site says sacks are counted as TFL in College but not NFL
    another site says if the QB is running, and looking to pass, it doesn't count as a sack but does for TFL.
    another site says if the QB is tackled at the LoS, it is counted as a sack but not a TFL and also that half sacks are not counted as TFL since there isn't a half TFL.


    Maybe someone here could clarify this for us.

  12. #102
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    21,222
    Quote Originally Posted by Butler By'Note View Post
    11 sacks in a season is good, but it regresses, closer to what he's been before. Which is why I agree that teams might hesitate to give him a monster contract. He bet on himself and won this year, but he might need to bet on himself again to get the real monster contract.
    can you clarify the issue about TFL and sacks?

  13. #103
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    21,222
    Quote Originally Posted by Butler By'Note View Post
    11 sacks in a season is good, but it regresses, closer to what he's been before. Which is why I agree that teams might hesitate to give him a monster contract. He bet on himself and won this year, but he might need to bet on himself again to get the real monster contract.
    I think $10M is a reasonable starting point for his next contract. That is right around the range of Wolfe's contract.

  14. #104
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    21,222
    Quote Originally Posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
    See bold, which is exactly how you’re basing your opinion of Barrett.
    there is some truth to that.

  15. #105
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    21,222
    Quote Originally Posted by Butler By'Note View Post
    11 sacks in a season is good, but it regresses, closer to what he's been before. Which is why I agree that teams might hesitate to give him a monster contract. He bet on himself and won this year, but he might need to bet on himself again to get the real monster contract.
    I found this. It's from 2011 NCAA though

    TACKLE FOR LOSS: Tackles behind the line of scrimmage resulting in lost yardage, either of a ball carrier or a quarterback
    attempting to pass, are tackles for loss.

    Examples:
    (1) Player A is solely or primarily responsible for a tackle resulting in lost yardage by the ball carrier. Player A is credited with a solo tackle and a solo tackle for loss. He also
    gets the entire yardage lost on the play.

    (2) The opposing team’s quarterback retreats into the pocket
    looking to pass, but sees an opening and tucks the ball
    to run. Player A tackles him before he reaches the line
    of scrimmage. Player A is credited with a solo tackle and
    a solo tackle for loss. He also is credited with the entire
    yardage lost on the play. No tackle for loss or pass sack
    may be credited if the quarterback gets back to the original line of scrimmage.

    (3) Players A and B are equally responsible for an assisted
    tackle resulting in lost yardage by the ball carrier. Each
    is credited with an assisted tackle (not a solo tackle) and
    with an assisted tackle for loss. Also, give each player an
    equal split of the total yards lost. However, if the loss is
    nine yards, the game statistician should give Player A fi ve
    yards and Player B four yards based on which player contributed more to the play.

    PASS SACKS: If the defensive team is credited with the sack
    of a player who is dropping back in an apparent attempt to
    pass, the same principles outlined above again apply. A player
    credited with a solo pass sack on the play is also credited with
    a solo tackle and a solo tackle for loss
    Last edited by broncos SB2010; 12-11-2019 at 08:30 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •