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Thread: Rebuild Time

  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by arapaho View Post
    I believe the logic of to get back to winning we have to gut this team of every great player for a handful of draft picks is ridiculous

    Teams with great defenses have great pass rushers, either two on the edge or on the edge and interior

    Say we trade Von , do you know how hard it is to get a pass rusher that can impact a game like him... they ain’t everywhere

    You can probably replace a CHJ with a immediate impact player if you use a high draft pick

    Players like Wolfe and gotsis can be replaced with younger or more talented players

    The fail is thinking we gonna get a bunch of #1 picks and just be good again

    If Lock is the one, then we don’t need a complete rebuild getting rid of all the talent and starting from scratch

    We got receivers, we got RBs, a couple more guys like Risner and we have a solid offense

    Build the o line in the draft and we might have a offense again if Lock pans out

    Every one of us thought that our defense was gonna be our strength and that Shelby Harris was gonna be a force crushing that pocket for Chubb and von to get a ton of sacks, he has been a complete no show no impact, doesn’t have a tackle for loss at nor Qb hit or sack

    Get that interior improved and we got a defense

    There is no need to gut this team
    But whens the last time von rushed the passer? Your living in the past. He's the first piece that needs to be packaged and shipped off

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by rst08tierney View Post
    But whens the last time von rushed the passer? Your living in the past. He's the first piece that needs to be packaged and shipped off
    I mean, he was pretty effective last week against Jacksonville tbh.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peerless View Post
    I mean, he was pretty effective last week against Jacksonville tbh.
    Against a 6th rd rookie quarterback. Von shows up every 3-4 games. Thatís not enough for a $48 million cap hit over 2020-21.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
    Against a 6th rd rookie quarterback. Von shows up every 3-4 games. That’s not enough for a $48 million cap hit over 2020-21.
    I know, I know. His price tag is outrageous for the return performance.

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peerless View Post
    I know, I know. His price tag is outrageous for the return performance.
    I donít blame Von for the cap hit. Elway restructured his deal twice IIRC in exchange for short term cap space for bad contracts with other players. Everything snowballed and here we are. Itís time to usher in a new era, painful as it might be - canít be much worse than where we are now.

  6. #81
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    Yes, it's time to rebuild. However, I think we should keep Miller - everyone else is expendable. I don't think Von has lost a step, I think he's suffering from a lack of any sort of push from the defensive line. If you watch the games Von is always in the backfield however when he's beaten his man he's always about a half yard or yard behind the quarterback. This is because we get ZERO push from our feeble defensive line (in fact, they go backwards most plays), and the quarterback is free to move up in the pocket to avoid it. Get a decent DLine and this defense with Miller / Chubb could actually be what we thought it would be.

    Unfortunately, the DLine is hard to improve through FA and draft picks take a year or so usually to develop, so even best case by the time we get a decent line Sanders and CH are probably losing a step and due to the positions they play, it's probably best to trade both or at the very least let CH walk and get the compensatory draft pick next year (would have to think it's a 3rd round).

    With this ownership mess and Elway not wanting to rebuild because of what it could mean to his job however, I fear this team is going to be at the bottom for years to come. Ellis is a cancer, Elway is an egotistical poor decision maker who's constantly whiffing on high draft picks and making terrible coaching hires. Until both of these guys are gone, we're pretty screwed.

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skylan View Post
    Yes, it's time to rebuild. However, I think we should keep Miller - everyone else is expendable. I don't think Von has lost a step, I think he's suffering from a lack of any sort of push from the defensive line. If you watch the games Von is always in the backfield however when he's beaten his man he's always about a half yard or yard behind the quarterback. This is because we get ZERO push from our feeble defensive line (in fact, they go backwards most plays), and the quarterback is free to move up in the pocket to avoid it. Get a decent DLine and this defense with Miller / Chubb could actually be what we thought it would be. .
    Do you see us winning a SB during this rebuild mode? Basically the next 2 years which is the remaining of Vons contract. I also don't believe he really lost a step, yet. But since we most likely will not be going anywhere anytime soon it makes sense not to waste the remaining of Vons good years with us. Plus he's still got some value, maybe a late first or second at this point. Which we will need in rebuilding mode.

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skylan View Post
    Yes, it's time to rebuild. However, I think we should keep Miller - everyone else is expendable. I don't think Von has lost a step, I think he's suffering from a lack of any sort of push from the defensive line. If you watch the games Von is always in the backfield however when he's beaten his man he's always about a half yard or yard behind the quarterback. This is because we get ZERO push from our feeble defensive line (in fact, they go backwards most plays), and the quarterback is free to move up in the pocket to avoid it. Get a decent DLine and this defense with Miller / Chubb could actually be what we thought it would be.

    Unfortunately, the DLine is hard to improve through FA and draft picks take a year or so usually to develop, so even best case by the time we get a decent line Sanders and CH are probably losing a step and due to the positions they play, it's probably best to trade both or at the very least let CH walk and get the compensatory draft pick next year (would have to think it's a 3rd round).

    With this ownership mess and Elway not wanting to rebuild because of what it could mean to his job however, I fear this team is going to be at the bottom for years to come. Ellis is a cancer, Elway is an egotistical poor decision maker who's constantly whiffing on high draft picks and making terrible coaching hires. Until both of these guys are gone, we're pretty screwed.
    Nice post, I agree. The D-line (especially the INTERIOR) has had little push/pressure these past few seasons. In fact, it's had a lack of pressure since we lost Malik Jackson after the Super Bowl win. I know Elway had certain players he wanted to keep and pay, but I think he should have been one of them. Some will say that he wasn't effective after leaving Denver, but hindsight IS 20/20.

    I've always enjoyed Derek Wolfe - but I think he's been extremely average since his arrival in 2012. I know he's a nice veteran presence and leader - but his play screams "average Joe" to me. That, and the fact that he's had continuous injuries throughout his career - I"m ready to go a different route.

  9. #84
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    Honestly, this FO should be looking at all possibilities. This team has been on a downhill trend for too long. Itís time to rethink the overall philosophy and strategy.

    Iím a Bronco fan and there are several players I like, but the FO needs to start looking at every avenue to improve this team for the future.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Murph2432 View Post
    Do you see us winning a SB during this rebuild mode? Basically the next 2 years which is the remaining of Vons contract. I also don't believe he really lost a step, yet. But since we most likely will not be going anywhere anytime soon it makes sense not to waste the remaining of Vons good years with us. Plus he's still got some value, maybe a late first or second at this point. Which we will need in rebuilding mode.
    Who knows.... it looks dark right now, but things change quickly in the NFL. Look at the records of some of the playoff teams last year

    Bears
    2015: 6-10
    2016: 3-13
    2017: 5-11
    2018: 12-4

    Rams
    2015: 7-9
    2016: 4-12
    2017: 11-5
    2018: 13-3

    Chargers
    2015: 4-12
    2016: 5-11
    2017: 9-7 (after starting 0-4)
    2018: 12-4

    Colts
    2015 & 2016: 8-8
    2017: 4-12
    2018: 10-6

    Texans
    2017: 4-12
    2018: 11-5

    Every year there are teams who at least double their win total from the previous year.

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
    Against a 6th rd rookie quarterback. Von shows up every 3-4 games. Thatís not enough for a $48 million cap hit over 2020-21.
    That 6th round rookie has been slinging it pretty dang good . But your right , Von has been Mia pretty much of the season. This season has been a big shocker because I expected our Defense to be stellar. I think going in everyone had reservations about our offense.

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Broncos-R-Great View Post
    Who knows.... it looks dark right now, but things change quickly in the NFL. Look at the records of some of the playoff teams last year

    Bears
    2015: 6-10
    2016: 3-13
    2017: 5-11
    2018: 12-4

    Rams
    2015: 7-9
    2016: 4-12
    2017: 11-5
    2018: 13-3

    Chargers
    2015: 4-12
    2016: 5-11
    2017: 9-7 (after starting 0-4)
    2018: 12-4

    Colts
    2015 & 2016: 8-8
    2017: 4-12
    2018: 10-6

    Texans
    2017: 4-12
    2018: 11-5

    Every year there are teams who at least double their win total from the previous year.
    There are also teams that are mired in mediocrity year after year. What specific ingredients are in place for the Broncos to make a big turnaround? Saying "rah rah, you gotta believe" is no answer.

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by rst08tierney View Post
    But whens the last time von rushed the passer? Your living in the past. He's the first piece that needs to be packaged and shipped off
    gee I dunno this last game against the jags when he had multiple QB hurries and 2 sacks?

    now whens the last time you see one of the best pass rushers in the game drop into coverage , or play in a rush 3 against 6 blockers on 3rd and longs

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by orange crush75 View Post
    That 6th round rookie has been slinging it pretty dang good . But your right , Von has been Mia pretty much of the season. This season has been a big shocker because I expected our Defense to be stellar. I think going in everyone had reservations about our offense.
    There are other factors however Von is on the other side of 30 and his contract is too expensive to justify given the lack of talent on the overall roster.

  15. #90
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    Another reason Von is struggling is there is absolutely zero interior rush. QBs just step up. If theres nice interior push that helps our edge rushers.

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