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Thread: Rebuild Time

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by darryn16 View Post
    Just so I understand, are you saying stockpiling draft picks to move up in the draft or trade for a FA?
    My preference is to have draft mobility/capital.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by arapaho View Post
    I don't prefer anything

    when it came to siemian vrs the rookie pax...I would have preferred to throw him out there since we stood no chance with trevor… give him the time to see if there was something

    when it comes to lock...if he didn't get hurt and put on IR who knows, but I was ok with flacco being the guy for a year, but losing anyway changes things

    so by game 9, if this team hasn't shown up then there is no reason not to see what he can do with 7 full games
    Fair enough.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich_C View Post
    What QB has been eased into it and shown real and legitimate longevity and talent? It was my understanding that Mahomes in KC was basically having teammates begging to have him put in games. I don't see him as a true or good recent example. MOST if not ALL good to great QBs just have it.
    Quote Originally Posted by arapaho View Post
    arron rodgers
    Philip rivers
    steve Mcnair
    randell cunningham
    Bret Favre
    Kurt Warner
    Drew Brees
    Joe Montana
    Roger Staubach

    There are more but I just focused on Super Bowl winners.

    Some like Tom Brady and Eli Manning started but were not week 1 starters.

    Usually the Qbs who start week 1 and do well long term were high first draft picks because it was obvious they had what it took
    Last edited by Hadez; 10-03-2019 at 12:06 PM.
    All I want for Christmas is a Bronco QB controversy

  4. #64
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    You are not going to get a 1st Round Draft pick for Chris Harris, as some have suggested. You are not going to get a 2nd Round Draft choice for Chris Harris. You are not going to get a 3rd Round Draft choice for Chris Harris. It would be a freakin' miracle if you got a 4th Round Draft choice for Chris Harris. And it would be a miracle if you got anywhere near the talent in the 4th Round that you give away when you move Chris Harris. And are the Broncos going to help the quality of their roster by giving away their talent? Like Chris Harris? Like Derek Wolfe? No, you aren't. So the idea that you need to blow things up is laughable. Nobody in the NFL wants the players from an 0 - 4 team. And if they have interest in any of them, they are going to "low-ball" the offer.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by gtown53 View Post
    You are not going to get a 1st Round Draft pick for Chris Harris, as some have suggested. You are not going to get a 2nd Round Draft choice for Chris Harris. You are not going to get a 3rd Round Draft choice for Chris Harris. It would be a freakin' miracle if you got a 4th Round Draft choice for Chris Harris. And it would be a miracle if you got anywhere near the talent in the 4th Round that you give away when you move Chris Harris. And are the Broncos going to help the quality of their roster by giving away their talent? Like Chris Harris? Like Derek Wolfe? No, you aren't. So the idea that you need to blow things up is laughable. Nobody in the NFL wants the players from an 0 - 4 team. And if they have interest in any of them, they are going to "low-ball" the offer.
    If you get anything for CHJ you take it. He's not going to be extended and it's clear he wants out after this year. The same goes for any other player becoming free agent in 2020. Get value now, because most of them will likely not want to stay here.

  6. #66
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    For me, there are key positions that need to be filled with quality players, and other positions that you could get by with, with more of an average talent. Just like there are some players you have to compensate more than others, based on what they bring. And that's true of any salary cap sport. You do not have to follow the franchise tag salary chart to know which positions are key, but you have to determine what you want to be, and how you compensate your players to meet that objective. But almost always, the QB has to be "the guy". Failure to secure that player will often cause years of headache, mismanaged drafts, and even some poorly spent FA money.

    For The Broncos to succeed, in my opinion, they need to find the guy who deserves the QB money. And we must target some other positions that need improvement.....Oline, ILB, DTs. And I am not convinced we have the right Dbackfield for long term success.

    Not an easy job. Injuries happen. Players do not develop according to plan. Competition grows faster than expected. BUT....there is a process, and from 50,000 feet, it still works. The nitty, gritty part is not quite so clear. Then again, when issues keep on occurring/never seem to get resolved, even us armchair types can be accurate to a reasonable degree, as to what needs to happen.

    You must have a plan, and it must prioritize team identity, positional need, specific players who can fill roles.
    Last edited by CanDB; 10-03-2019 at 12:49 PM.

  7. #67
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    The Bottom Line is Denver Needs To Find The Next Franchise QB so I hope the Scouts are out.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Papa-pwn View Post
    You say that like those teams have been using their top 10 picks repeatedly on QBs. Those three franchises combined have drafted a QB in the top 5 a total of 5 times in the last 50 years.

    Oakland- Russell '07
    Cleveland- Mayfield '18, Couch '99, Phipps '70
    Miami Tannehill '12
    Teams have different needs at different times, and high picks are not always QBs. The point I was making is having a high pick is hardly a guarantee of making your team better, whether you spend it on a QB or another position. Itís absolutely true that stockpiling picks doesnít equal getting a franchise QB. Sometimes it does. Most of the time it doesnít.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by gtown53 View Post
    You are not going to get a 1st Round Draft pick for Chris Harris, as some have suggested. You are not going to get a 2nd Round Draft choice for Chris Harris. You are not going to get a 3rd Round Draft choice for Chris Harris. It would be a freakin' miracle if you got a 4th Round Draft choice for Chris Harris. And it would be a miracle if you got anywhere near the talent in the 4th Round that you give away when you move Chris Harris. And are the Broncos going to help the quality of their roster by giving away their talent? Like Chris Harris? Like Derek Wolfe? No, you aren't. So the idea that you need to blow things up is laughable. Nobody in the NFL wants the players from an 0 - 4 team.. And if they have interest in any of them, they are going to "low-ball" the offer.
    Since nobody in the NFL wants players from an 0-4 team, why should the Broncos keep any of them? If these players arenít good enough for any other team why are they critical for the roster moving forward?

  10. #70
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    Since 2016 the Broncos are 20-32, 11-25 since the start of 2017. The team is riding an eight game losing streak. Losing the next game would mark the first 0-5 start in franchise history.

    When I hear we cannot consider trading Von Miller, it means losing is acceptable as long as we have pieces of the 2015 championship roster. The team is horrible, but donít pay attention to the record - weíre really a great team because we have Von Miller. It took the defense four games to register a sack yet we canít possibly live without Von Miller.

    Vonís cap number is $48 million over 2020-21 thanks to restructuring by Elway to pay bad contracts over the last few years. Joe Flaccoís cap number is $53 million over 2020-21. Chris Harris Jr was asking for $15+ million per year over multiple years.

    Does anyone believe the Broncos can eat $100 million in cap for Von and Flacco, or $115 million for Von, Flacco and CHJ over two seasons and build a winning roster? I donít.

    The Broncos didnít get to this point by accident. There were poor drafts and bad contracts over multiple years.

    Elway likely missed the window to leverage more value by trading Von after last season. Itís not too late however this team needs to begin the hard work of building a roster without $100 million tied up in two veterans. This team will not become competitive with the status quo.
    Last edited by Fantaztic7; 10-03-2019 at 07:38 PM.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
    Since 2016 the Broncos are 20-32, 11-25 since the start of 2017. The team is riding an eight game losing streak. Losing the next game would mark the first 0-5 start in franchise history.

    When I hear we cannot consider trading Von Miller, it means losing is acceptable as long as we have pieces of the 2015 championship roster. The team is horrible, but don’t pay attention to the record - we’re really a great team because we have Von Miller. It took the defense four games to register a sack yet we can’t possibly live without Von Miller.

    Von’s cap number is $48 million over 2020-21 thanks to restructuring by Elway to pay bad contracts over the last few years. Joe Flacco’s cap number is $53 million over 2020-21. Chris Harris Jr was asking for $15+ million per year over multiple years.

    Does anyone believe the Broncos can eat $100 million in cap for Von and Flacco, or $115 million for Von, Flacco and CHJ over two seasons and build a winning roster? I don’t.

    The Broncos didn’t get to this point by accident. There were poor drafts and bad contracts over multiple years.

    Elway likely missed the window to leverage more value by trading Von after last season. It’s not too late however this team needs to begin the hard work of building a roster without $100 million tied up in two veterans. This team will not become competitive with the status quo.
    100% agreed. Von Miller cannot be paid like a quarterback when the effect he has on this team is only a fraction of one. That capital could be used in so many other areas, not to mention the pick that we could get in return for a player that likely will fit Fangio or a new coach's scheme more readily. I also agree the window to release Von is closing, but not past. He's still considered a top performer by name status alone - think of how excited Bears fans were in getting Mack and how that bought Nagy a few more years as a HC. He's getting older and less effective though, so the time to trade him is now. Not in the off-season, but by week 7 when we haven't won a single game yet.
    Superbowl 50 Champions!

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheAsianPA View Post
    If you get anything for CHJ you take it. He's not going to be extended and it's clear he wants out after this year. The same goes for any other player becoming free agent in 2020. Get value now, because most of them will likely not want to stay here.
    I disagree here. You will probably get a higher comp pick then you would get through a trade so I would let him go

  13. #73
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    Fans of teams often overvalue the players on their team, Shane Ray for a 2nd Round Pick at the start of last season anyone ? I wouldn't trade Chris Harris or Emmanuel Sanders, despite calling for both to be moved in the off-season. Both will sign with new teams in free agency next year and we will receive solid compensation in the form of compensatory draft picks.

    Also, John Elway in my opinion already looked like an idiot giving Harris more money for one year when he was already under contract, so if he was to then trade him to another team before the deadline, he would look beyond stupid. But, if Elway really wants to move Harris, if you were a competitor, you would be crazy not to offer a 4th rounder because Elway would accept it, then you could just let Harris walk in free agency and that 4th rounder would become a compensatory 3rd rounder. Improve the team for the 2019 season, and trade up essentially in the 2020 draft for free, Elway could be easily had if he is set on moving Harris.

  14. #74
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    On the subject of comp picks, I doubt we get any for Harris or Sanders. Free agent signing offset losses and with the amount of cap space we will have this offseason I would be surprised if we don't sign a player or two to offset the losses in the eyes of the comp pick officials.

    Also, potentially lost in this conversation, comp picks are for the draft following ththe most immediate one. Potential comp picks for Harris and Sanders would he applied to the 2021 draft, not the 2020 draft. Our 2019 comp picks, if any, will likely be in the 6th or 7th with Shaq Barrett and Max Garcia being the most likely contracts to cause them.

    We would be better off trading. At least then it is guaranteed, and potentially immediate, compensation.
    Last edited by Papa-pwn; 10-04-2019 at 03:38 AM.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheAsianPA View Post
    100% agreed. Von Miller cannot be paid like a quarterback when the effect he has on this team is only a fraction of one. That capital could be used in so many other areas, not to mention the pick that we could get in return for a player that likely will fit Fangio or a new coach's scheme more readily. I also agree the window to release Von is closing, but not past. He's still considered a top performer by name status alone - think of how excited Bears fans were in getting Mack and how that bought Nagy a few more years as a HC. He's getting older and less effective though, so the time to trade him is now. Not in the off-season, but by week 7 when we haven't won a single game yet.
    At a minimum the Broncos should be taking calls from teams, especially those most likely to make the playoffs. As another member posted earlier, Philadelphia could be interested in CHJ. I donít believe weíll get a high pick for Von because of his contract, minus the money remaining with Denver. Get the best pick possible and build major cap space. Start the process now. Von was great for Denver. Let guys like him and CHJ go play for a contender while they have 2-3 years left.

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