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  1. #46
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    Sep 2003
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
    Elway is not an effective manager. The fact that he retained Matt Russell after the DUI says it all. When a manager doesnít hold a subordinate accountable the organization suffers.

    Failing to identify the right quarterback is the next most important reason. Whether it was going to be a veteran or developing a young signal caller, Elway failed.

    Elway also failed to build a solid offensive line. Risner looks solid but too little too late. He paid too much for guys like Donald Stephenson, Menelik Watson and Ronald Leary. He brought in the type of players Belichick would pass on. JaíWuan James thus far looks like a high priced contract for a guy who will not play a lot.

    Elway repeats the same mistakes. For example he drafted guys like Jeff Heuerman coming off injury in college. What did Elway do? Drafted Jake Butt, another injury prone player. Bryce Callahan was awarded a nice contract coming off a bad foot injury. Elway handed out too many contracts to guys that donít produce.

    Lastly, Elway hired Vance Joseph. The worst part was sticking with Vance after it was clear he was in over his head. Vance was a bad hire because he didnít have enough experience. What did he do? Hired another coach without head coaching experience.

    Elway is the common denominator. Just because someone had success doesnít mean they can replicate it. Some of the most successful companies are not run by the founder. It takes effective, consistent management to sustain success.
    In sociology we learn that machavellian controller types tend to hire the weak and the broken. Maybe that's his issue.

  2. #47
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    There are a ton of reasons we are where we are. I'll just say it's downright depressing. Thankfully I have college football to ease some of the pain.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
    I agree. The issue is that Kyle would not have the talent to work with. He would be working with the same draft picks and bad free agent contracts under Elway. Maybe Kyle could influence some of the decisions, but not enough with Elway and his goon Matt Russell. The Broncos are a bad organization top to bottom. Wholesale change will be required.
    With Kyle Shanahan here we would likely have Kirk Cousins and a better offensive philosophy. But yes, with Elway here our draft picks and future decisions will always be suspect.

  4. #49
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    Nov 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by mojo0730 View Post
    I don't think Manning was done. I think they tried forcing Manning into an offense for which he was ill-suited but I think based on how he performed in the playoffs that this team could have benefited from him for one more season. He certainly was a better option than Mark Sanchez, Trevor Siemian, and Paxton Lynch.
    I agree with you too, I dont think Manning was done, I knew when they grab Kubs, it was over for Manning, they were trying to fit a square in a round hole, they just got lucky the defense was good because alot of the pieces wanted to play for Manning. Elway just thought he could get great player for cheap after he let Manning go... boy was he wrong.
    Quote Originally Posted by broncos SB2010 View Post
    I doubt Chubb is high on their radar.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by mojo0730 View Post
    Well, they seem to draft very well and were able to attract top-flight free agents too.

    If you think about the talent we had from 2012-2015, it certainly wasn't bad management then.
    Peyton did a lot of recruiting if his own, weíve all heard the story of him telling Joe Thomas to crap on the Browns GMs desk just to force a trade lol

    He was also in the ears of Wes Welker and Owen Daniels however Jeff Saturday would not budge.

  6. #51
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    Mar 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by mojo0730 View Post
    I don't think Manning was done. I think they tried forcing Manning into an offense for which he was ill-suited but I think based on how he performed in the playoffs that this team could have benefited from him for one more season. He certainly was a better option than Mark Sanchez, Trevor Siemian, and Paxton Lynch.
    Agree to disagree. He had lost agility, and his arm strength was a factor in his decline.

    And for me, he left on the right train.....to Hall Of Fame!

  7. #52
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    Nov 2005
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    The two glaring problems on offense.....Bolles and Flacco

  8. #53
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    Oct 2015
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    968
    Quote Originally Posted by welderhead View Post
    In sociology we learn that machavellian controller types tend to hire the weak and the broken. Maybe that's his issue.
    For 30 of the 32 NFL franchises, the head coach is the face of management. That is standard. That is expected. The only two teams that have a GM which demands they be the face of management is Jerry Jones and John Elway. As a result, qualified coaches are not interested in coaching in Denver.

    GMs should be career personnel professionals who, even as GM, are unrecognizable to most fans.

  9. #54
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    Jul 2013
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    Quote Originally Posted by mojo0730 View Post
    1) Not bringing Manning back for the final year of his contract.

    2) Not re-signing Brock before he left for Houston.

    3) Hiring Vance Joseph.

    4) Letting Wade Phillips Walk.

    5) Bringing Elway back after last season.
    I agree VJ was a bad decision.
    Manning could barely play anymore, Brock was clearly not a starting QB, showed that in Houston, Miami, and by chasing the money instead of staying in Denver. If he believed in himself he would have stayed, balled out and then force the broncos to pay him, instead he chased the money because he didnít know if heíd get another chance, I donít blame him but shows how much he believed in himself.

    The Elway debate is a 3 to 5 year issue, it canít be fixed in one year. We donít bring Elway back last season, we would still be a bad team. I think we are where we are because Elway has failed to provide this team with a coach who can change the culture, and players who can play. Unfortunately I believe we have to give Fangio this season and 2 more. He needs to be give the players to execute his defense and figure out if Scangerello is the guy or not. After the 2021 season we will hopefully have the ownership situation resolved and then the future can start.
    Right now we are stuck until we get an owner, Ellis is just going through the motions, and Elway is painted in a corner forced to watch all his decisions play out in what probably seems like a nightmare.

  10. #55
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    Oct 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by 58Miller View Post
    I agree VJ was a bad decision.
    Manning could barely play anymore, Brock was clearly not a starting QB, showed that in Houston, Miami, and by chasing the money instead of staying in Denver. If he believed in himself he would have stayed, balled out and then force the broncos to pay him, instead he chased the money because he didn’t know if he’d get another chance, I don’t blame him but shows how much he believed in himself.

    The Elway debate is a 3 to 5 year issue, it can’t be fixed in one year. We don’t bring Elway back last season, we would still be a bad team. I think we are where we are because Elway has failed to provide this team with a coach who can change the culture, and players who can play. Unfortunately I believe we have to give Fangio this season and 2 more. He needs to be give the players to execute his defense and figure out if Scangerello is the guy or not. After the 2021 season we will hopefully have the ownership situation resolved and then the future can start.
    Right now we are stuck until we get an owner, Ellis is just going through the motions, and Elway is painted in a corner forced to watch all his decisions play out in what probably seems like a nightmare.
    I just don't believe Manning was done. People can disagree, but he was not suited for Kubiak's system and they clearly tried to make him play that system.

  11. #56
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    Dec 2015
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    Quote Originally Posted by welderhead View Post
    In sociology we learn that machavellian controller types tend to hire the weak and the broken. Maybe that's his issue.
    I hear what youíre saying. I donít think some of the guys are weak and broken. Just not ready, good enough or lacked experience to get the job done. Some might fall into that camp you mentioned. I wonít mention names but the initials Matt Russell ring a bell.

  12. #57
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    Dec 2015
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheAsianPA View Post
    With Kyle Shanahan here we would likely have Kirk Cousins and a better offensive philosophy. But yes, with Elway here our draft picks and future decisions will always be suspect.
    Good points.

  13. #58
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    Nov 2014
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    883
    Quote Originally Posted by 58Miller View Post
    I agree VJ was a bad decision.
    Manning could barely play anymore, Brock was clearly not a starting QB, showed that in Houston, Miami, and by chasing the money instead of staying in Denver. If he believed in himself he would have stayed, balled out and then force the broncos to pay him, instead he chased the money because he didnít know if heíd get another chance, I donít blame him but shows how much he believed in himself.

    The Elway debate is a 3 to 5 year issue, it canít be fixed in one year. We donít bring Elway back last season, we would still be a bad team. I think we are where we are because Elway has failed to provide this team with a coach who can change the culture, and players who can play. Unfortunately I believe we have to give Fangio this season and 2 more. He needs to be give the players to execute his defense and figure out if Scangerello is the guy or not. After the 2021 season we will hopefully have the ownership situation resolved and then the future can start.
    Right now we are stuck until we get an owner, Ellis is just going through the motions, and Elway is painted in a corner forced to watch all his decisions play out in what probably seems like a nightmare.
    There are a lot of people who are ignorant with regards to Manning's decline, but I would put the blame on John Elway for why that happened. He probably is hamstringing the Broncos the more times goes on.
    I believe.

  14. #59
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    Sep 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by mojo0730 View Post
    I just don't believe Manning was done. People can disagree, but he was not suited for Kubiak's system and they clearly tried to make him play that system.
    Agreed. As much as Kubiak is loved around here and talked about as some type of offensive genius, he had a lot of traits people would associate with bad coaching. He had his system, and he forced players to adapt to it. As opposed to doing what is universally considered as good coaching, adapting to the players. I think Manning was done though, he didn't have anything left in the tank, and he knew it.

  15. #60
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    Apr 2008
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    Gtown
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bronco51 View Post
    Simple enough to me.....bad talent paired with bad coaching of said talent equals bad records.
    I couldn't agree more. Which begs the question, why in the world is holdover coach, Bill Kollar still coaching on this team after he "banged on the table" insisting that Adam Gotsis, another failed Draft Pick, should be taken in the 2nd Round?

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