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  1. #1
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    Look Folks....I Really Get The Positive Outlook By Many

    This is not one of those "fan" discussions, other than to say that I do appreciate folks who stay behind their team, through thick and thin. Loyalty is a beautiful thing. Whereas those who jump ship every time they see any sort of storm cloud are not exactly the type that I enjoy being around.

    Based on what I read/hear, there are a lot of us who are unhappy with the way this team has been going, for several years consecutive. I also notice that some fans are still seeing a silver lining. I respect both groups, because most of them are either getting worn down, or are dedicated to the cause, whichever direction it goes.

    Co-existence is a good thing in this regard. Both groups, as I describe them, have their rights. The disappointed ones (like me), are not basing this on one or even two seasons. The positive ones are patient and loyal, and will hang in when others try to look the other way. Again, the merits of both are solid, in my books.

    SO AGAIN...THIS IS NOT A DISCUSSION OF WHAT A FAN IS.....Thx!

    If I can make my case, it goes as follows.....

    I am not a stranger to losing seasons. The Broncos, for example, have had their share of unfavourable years. Patience was a virtue, and still is. "For those who wait". Same goes, for me, in most sports. I am usually loyal to specific teams, and players. When uncertain, I usually pull for the under dog. All in all, I've followed a lot of losing seasons in my life.

    The great news, is that when a losing team/player becomes a winner...it is exhilarating! And it seems worth all the while. It's a shame to give up when the going is tough, and not feel that elation that comes when things correct themselves. It's sort of like the difference between watching a great finish in a huge game, versus walking away, and finding out later. You can not compare the difference in excitement/happiness. Of course, the great news is still great news...but you missed it.

    But here's where I differ from some on this board. Again, it's ok. For me, there's a significant difference between "hopeful", and having the right people in place, plan to follow and execute properly, and leadership/coaching to keep things on track and energized. This is where I have my doubts. This is why I can not be too optimistic just yet, until I feel we are on the right track overall, and not just randomly chugging along, as if things will take care of themselves....just because. You see, I believe in luck on occasion (good and bad), and things evening out over time....BUT I do not believe that any group, with any plan, will be successful.

    This is the crux of my problem. I don't think we have the right management and team in place to carry us forward, other than perhaps a 500 or so team, that is not refreshing itself as it should. And if I can be blunt, 500 is fine after experiencing losing seasons, but it is not the final destination.

    I have spoken long about the deficiencies, as many of us have, but just want to state my case in this thread....I am not patient just because patience is a strong characteristic to have. And I am not overly optimistic given the plans/decisions/resourcing that we have employed for what seems like a few seasons. I think many of us have articulated the things that need to happen for optimism to prevail....

    BUT WILL THEY????

    I conclude with this.....go Broncos. Lets get back on the right track.

    (and yes, I hope we can all be winners here again, sooner than later....and I wish the most loyal/patient ones to be rewarded as they should!!)
    Last edited by CanDB; 10-28-2019 at 09:18 AM.

  2. #2
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    Good job, I've seen plenty of losing seasons as well and I know that in a year or two we'll be right back to expecting wins instead of expecting losses. This time is tough but to get those blue chip game-changing talented players we have to go through times like this.
    Last edited by JvDub95; 10-28-2019 at 09:23 AM.


    Andy Jano 2017 adopted Bronco

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by JvDub95 View Post
    Good job, I've seen plenty of losing seasons as well and I know that in a year or two we'll be right back to expecting wins instead of expecting losses. This time is tough but to get those blue chip game-changing talented players we have to go through times like this.
    If I can use the analogy of a forest fire, one that does not injure, or damage buildings, homes and the like. It is usually a necessary thing, because it clears out older/weakened trees, and what follows is new growth, of stronger ones, Revitalized. Better than before.

  4. #4
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    Honestly we are not as far away as people think. The difference between winning and losing in this league is pretty small as we have witnessed this year and really in 2015 as well. We have enough pieces to build around. Need to hit on a few OL picks and shore that up. Also need Lock to be the guy.. if we can get a 2nd out of Harris we have the pieces in place to overhaul this team pretty drastically in just 1 year. Also pretty soon when the chiefs have to pay Mahomes they will be in CAP hell. Chargers are in transition and the raiders are the raiders. This year sucks, but donít count me in the doom and gloom camp just yet for our 4-5 year outlook.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by IAbronco24 View Post
    Honestly we are not as far away as people think. The difference between winning and losing in this league is pretty small as we have witnessed this year and really in 2015 as well. We have enough pieces to build around. Need to hit on a few OL picks and shore that up. Also need Lock to be the guy.. if we can get a 2nd out of Harris we have the pieces in place to overhaul this team pretty drastically in just 1 year. Also pretty soon when the chiefs have to pay Mahomes they will be in CAP hell. Chargers are in transition and the raiders are the raiders. This year sucks, but donít count me in the doom and gloom camp just yet for our 4-5 year outlook.
    Who are we?

    I mean that form a point of view of our identity. For example the Chiefs are a throwing team who will run a track meet around you. The Patirots are savvy and simply play with a silly amount of detail. The Broncos of 2013 were a juggernaut of an offense who broke records like crazy. The Seahawks of old were a defensive powerhouse with an offense who could play when needed. The 2019 Ravens are a mainly run heavy team.


    Who are we?

    - We have a good defense BUT in those critical moments at the end of the game when the extra effort is needed - we seemingly crumble. See I could get on board with Wolfe's comments if this is not what we've seen happen for 3 or more games this season already. When that starts to happen it is a trend. Not a good one either. In 2015- YES we had some close games but our team and its players dug down deep right when it mattered most (end of the 4th) and made THE play. this season the defense is allowing the opposing offense to make THE PLAY.

    - Offense has a decent running game but a QB who is awful. He holds onto the ball too long. Fails to commit to throws and very often as a result of that plays are left on the field. In Addition when we NEEDED to get yards in the back portion of the 4th and we decided to run 95% of the time. We were not fooling anyone. Eventually we were going to get stonewalled. We did.


    At this point we are not a run team who sets up the pass and we are not a pass team who sets up the run. On top of that we are not good enough in the Offensive trenches to be flexible and not be one or the other.

    One last thing - where's the fire? That last little drive?

    With Peyton here the team always knew that we were there and in it. He just had that 'it' factor. Joe only ever had that 'it' factor for three games in his only SB run. Even then it was always a question of which Joe will show. Now our team is clearly coming on the field close in the 4th saying "Here we go again" no clutch QB play, conservative play-calling and no fire/drive overall as a result.

    IMO - Joe needs to find his way to the bench. CHJ needs to be held accountable for running his mouth about wanting big time $$ in the middle of the season and then on his 1-on-1 coverage miss the play when it matters most. I will give Wolfe & Von kudos where it is due. They were so aggressively held all night and even when refs were right there....no calls were made. The tone was set when Wolfe was held on the near safety and no call was made.


    We need to figure out, and fast, who we are. Both sides of the ball need to welcome that identity and own it. This direction as CANDB said comes from the top (I've been saying that for a while now) - the big question is if Elway is the guy who can infuse that direction OR if we need to look elsewhere. There is no point for Elway and his team to continue any longer if we do not think he is "the guy". I also question Ellis but due to the mess of the ownership he cannot be moved or touched.

  6. #6
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    Again, without the details, or all the steps to be taken, for me the key one is to reset the Management team. When things go south for a while, it's almost always management.

    And that's why I am concerned. Failure to address may result in ongoing poor decisions, at the route that we choose to go as an NFL team....be it identity, coach/player choices, chemistry, etc. etc.

    My fear, as I mentioned above, is that we expect good results....just because.

  7. #7
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    It is really hard for people outside the coaching staff and front office really know what is going on with the team.

    IMO posters and fans are correct to feel how ever they want.

    Some may say we are a few bad penalties away from being 5-3 and maybe we can turn the corner with another off season of building.

    Some may say we are a few lucky calls away from being 0-8 with no hope of turning things around with the current GM and coaching staff.

    It is ok for everyone to feel how they want and still be a fan if they want to be.
    All I want for Christmas is a Bronco QB controversy

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanDB View Post
    Again, without the details, or all the steps to be taken, for me the key one is to reset the Management team. When things go south for a while, it's almost always management.

    And that's why I am concerned. Failure to address may result in ongoing poor decisions, at the route that we choose to go as an NFL team....be it identity, coach/player choices, chemistry, etc. etc.

    My fear, as I mentioned above, is that we expect good results....just because.
    And who exactly do we get? It's easy to say we need someone else. The hard part is coming up with the "who".

    I'm not happy with Elway, but I just don't see anyone out there that's a proven GM. I think my biggest complaint with Elway was not hiring Kyle Shanahan and instead choosing VJ. I didn't like it at the time and in hindsight like it even less now. His offense would have fit well after Kubiak left, but Elway went with VJ for some strange reason. Meanwhile Kyle is considered the best young coach in the NFL and he wanted to come here.

    We also could have had Mike Shanahan last year. Take out the 4 years Peyton was here and combine all the other years since Shanahan left and compare them to Shanhan's post-Elway career (his WORST YEARS) with us.

  9. #9
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    I don't understand the "we could just be a few plays or calls away from a winning season" sentiment. This is season 4 of being a bad team. We are seeing historically bad play for this team. The locker room is undoubtedly in shambles. We have no defined owner to hold the organization accountable. The uncertainty right now is overwhelming. There's a difference between being hopeful/optimistic, and completely unrealistic. This team is a dumpster fire from the very top to the bottom. We've very likely lost respect around the league. We're competing with the dolphins and bengals for worst team in the league. This hasn't been familiar ground for the Broncos organization or fans. Though it's sadly getting to be business-as-usual/Groundhog Day in Denver.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by lvbronx View Post
    And who exactly do we get? It's easy to say we need someone else. The hard part is coming up with the "who".

    I'm not happy with Elway, but I just don't see anyone out there that's a proven GM. I think my biggest complaint with Elway was not hiring Kyle Shanahan and instead choosing VJ. I didn't like it at the time and in hindsight like it even less now. His offense would have fit well after Kubiak left, but Elway went with VJ for some strange reason. Meanwhile Kyle is considered the best young coach in the NFL and he wanted to come here.

    We also could have had Mike Shanahan last year. Take out the 4 years Peyton was here and combine all the other years since Shanahan left and compare them to Shanhan's post-Elway career (his WORST YEARS) with us.
    Not really that easy to say we need change. Took some time and assessment for many of us to see it this way.

    As for the hard part....that's life in my books. You move on. You exhaustively search for good candidates, and home in on the one you feel most confident with. There are people, every year, that deserve promotion or change. They can do the job, just need an opportunity.

    Regardless, you have to start somewhere...and IMO, soon. Because each year you leave things as they are, you put this organization back another year. And football years are significant.
    Last edited by CanDB; 10-28-2019 at 12:20 PM.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by lvbronx View Post
    And who exactly do we get? It's easy to say we need someone else. The hard part is coming up with the "who".

    I'm not happy with Elway, but I just don't see anyone out there that's a proven GM. I think my biggest complaint with Elway was not hiring Kyle Shanahan and instead choosing VJ. I didn't like it at the time and in hindsight like it even less now. His offense would have fit well after Kubiak left, but Elway went with VJ for some strange reason. Meanwhile Kyle is considered the best young coach in the NFL and he wanted to come here.

    We also could have had Mike Shanahan last year. Take out the 4 years Peyton was here and combine all the other years since Shanahan left and compare them to Shanhan's post-Elway career (his WORST YEARS) with us.
    People have implied that teams who change leadership willy-nilly are chasing their tails, and destined to be losers. It certainly happens a lot. But then there are teams like the Browns, Bengals, etc who stuck with poor leadership year-after-year, despite a track record of losing and being a mess. That's not a good culture either.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red_Label View Post
    People have implied that teams who change leadership willy-nilly are chasing their tails, and destined to be losers. It certainly happens a lot. But then there are teams like the Browns, Bengals, etc who stuck with poor leadership year-after-year, despite a track record of losing and being a mess. That's not a good culture either.
    Good post. I always say that if an organization struggles year after year, it's almost a given that upper management is the problem. Whenever I see teams losing like The Browns did, it's kind of sickening, because it could be remedied, and fairly quickly. Poor leadership results in poor results, along with losing cultures, among other negative outcomes.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanDB View Post
    Not really that easy to say we need change. Took some time and assessment for many of us to see it this way.

    As for the hard part....that's life in my books. You move on. You exhaustively search for good candidates, and home in on the one you feel most confident with. There are people, every year, that deserve promotion or change. They can do the job, just need an opportunity.

    Regardless, you have to start somewhere...and IMO, soon. Because each year you leave things as they are, you put this organization back another year. And football years are significant.
    Not good enough for me. You can't say we need someone else without saying who it is. As I've said before, I'm not against replacing Elway. But I want to know with whom first. There are no guarantees the next GM will be better.

    What we do know about Elway is:

    He's a Bronco and understands our history and cares if we win.

    He makes mistakes, but he corrects them quickly. See Lynch and Keenum.

    His drafts seemed to have improved quite a bit the past two years. We're bad now because of his drafts 3-4 years ago, not the last two. I see a change in the types of players he's chosen and our 3 best O players are Taz (undrafted), Sutton and Risner, all drafted/signed in the last 2 drafts.

    And no you don't have to start somewhere. It may be best (or not) but it isn't an indisputable fact that we have to start over. It's just an opinion and we have also consider starting over could mean we get even worse and instead of losing by last-seoncd FGs we lose by 20 pts. Getting someone else doesn't automatically mean we'll get better, it's only one possibility.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red_Label View Post
    People have implied that teams who change leadership willy-nilly are chasing their tails, and destined to be losers. It certainly happens a lot. But then there are teams like the Browns, Bengals, etc who stuck with poor leadership year-after-year, despite a track record of losing and being a mess. That's not a good culture either.
    The team won't change willy nilly, but posters without any suggestions for replacements for Elway are changing willy nilly...as a matter of fact, I'd say not naming someone is the definition of willy nilly. These people want anybody as long as there's a change. That's about as willy nilly as it gets.

    How about we replace Elway with me? I'll take a lot less money than Elway and you all get your change. Win/win.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by lvbronx View Post
    The team won't change willy nilly, but posters without any suggestions for replacements for Elway are changing willy nilly...as a matter of fact, I'd say not naming someone is the definition of willy nilly. These people want anybody as long as there's a change. That's about as willy nilly as it gets.

    How about we replace Elway with me? I'll take a lot less money than Elway and you all get your change. Win/win.
    you know, you can do a little research of your own. There have been multiple posts and several forums we're people have listed dozens of names to replace Elway.


    Andy Jano 2017 adopted Bronco

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