Tom Brady?

[Saddletramp]

He'll retire as a pansey. As will Billy boy.

[bronx_2003]

Jimmy G and Brisset. Plus there’s Matt Cassell who did go 10-6 despite missing the playoffs. The teams were still very talented but those guys would be the go to for an argument against B.B.

Pretty sure they were 2-2 with Brissett and missed the playoffs with Cassell despite being in a bad division.

He is a very good coach but the fact remains that he has only had success with Brady at QB. I'm pretty sure he has zero playoffs wins with any other QB behind center and if people want to crown Brady as the GOAT then any coach will win with him. We went to 2 SB's in 4 seasons with PM so when you have a great QB you can win.

I think there are coaches in this league who are doing a great job without a HOF QB.

[Spice 1]

Pretty sure they were 2-2 with Brissett and missed the playoffs with Cassell despite being in a bad division.

He is a very good coach but the fact remains that he has only had success with Brady at QB. I'm pretty sure he has zero playoffs wins with any other QB behind center and if people want to crown Brady as the GOAT then any coach will win with him. We went to 2 SB's in 4 seasons with PM so when you have a great QB you can win.

I think there are coaches in this league who are doing a great job without a HOF QB.

I wish I knew Bill Parcells, so I could introduce you to him. He'd be the guy to talk to if you think Belichick can't win without Tom Brady.

[bronx_2003]

I wish I knew Bill Parcells, so I could introduce you to him. He'd be the guy to talk to if you think Belichick can't win without Tom Brady.

I think BB is definitely a HOF coach, and one of the best ever, but I can't personally list him as the greatest ever when he has only won with Brady behind center. Some people call McD the best OC of all time, but he was terrible in Denver and in St Louis offensively, but he goes back to NE with Tom Brady and is having success again....... what a coincidence.

I'm not saying BB cannot win and be successful without Brady, I'm just saying that he has never proven that he can and if he retires with Brady then he never will prove that.

[beastlyskronk]

Either way There is an argument that some people will make whether a good argument or not that Brady couldn’t do it outside of that system and that HC. That alone will be enough to drive Brady to prove that he can do it elsewhere. Brady is one of the most competitive people in the game (you kind of have to be to be that good) and winning elsewhere will eliminate those yeah buts people will bring up years after he’s retired. It can also create even more if he doesn’t and I do believe that he would like to stay with only one team because I think loyalty is very important to him. That’s the internal battle I think he’s been facing this season. If he goes somewhere it’ll likely be a team with a rich history which is why I doubt the Chargers would be his choice even if they may be the most talented roster. If lock had flopped I think he would’ve ended up here. But since Lock didn’t (thank you lord) I think if he does leave he will likely go to Chicago.

I do think he realizes the end is very close though, I don’t think he just suddenly decided he needed a twitter account this season because he wanted to. He’s opening himself up to the public to build his brand even further. He’s beginning to transition himself away from football.

[bronx_2003]

Either way There is an argument that some people will make whether a good argument or not that Brady couldn’t do it outside of that system and that HC. That alone will be enough to drive Brady to prove that he can do it elsewhere. Brady is one of the most competitive people in the game (you kind of have to be to be that good) and winning elsewhere will eliminate those yeah buts people will bring up years after he’s retired. It can also create even more if he doesn’t and I do believe that he would like to stay with only one team because I think loyalty is very important to him. That’s the internal battle I think he’s been facing this season. If he goes somewhere it’ll likely be a team with a rich history which is why I doubt the Chargers would be his choice even if they may be the most talented roster. If lock had flopped I think he would’ve ended up here. But since Lock didn’t (thank you lord) I think if he does leave he will likely go to Chicago.

I do think he realizes the end is very close though, I don’t think he just suddenly decided he needed a twitter account this season because he wanted to. He’s opening himself up to the public to build his brand even further. He’s beginning to transition himself away from football.

Great QB's are great QB's whereever they play, but Brady is coming to the end so I don't think he would do himself any justice moving somewhere else to prove something.

[Spice 1]

I think BB is definitely a HOF coach, and one of the best ever, but I can't personally list him as the greatest ever when he has only won with Brady behind center. Some people call McD the best OC of all time, but he was terrible in Denver and in St Louis offensively, but he goes back to NE with Tom Brady and is having success again....... what a coincidence.

I'm not saying BB cannot win and be successful without Brady, I'm just saying that he has never proven that he can and if he retires with Brady then he never will prove that.

Well, they're both really good. No doubt about that. I think Brady is an all time great. Possibly the best ever, but I do believe that Belichick is the best defensive coach of all time. A lot of the older guys, like Sam, will probably disagree with me, but that's my personal opinion.

[CanDB]

Well, they're both really good. No doubt about that. I think Brady is an all time great. Possibly the best ever, but I do believe that Belichick is the best defensive coach of all time. A lot of the older guys, like Sam, will probably disagree with me, but that's my personal opinion.

I'm older...and I think you are not wrong. He is the HC but he is typically with the D. I think he has kept them in the race all year with the D. Not Brady.

[bronx_2003]

The NE D has been pretty solid this season but tailed off badly lately and got lit up by Miami last week. The NE D in the BB era has been mostly solid but nothing that good, I bet a lot of seasons it wasn't even top 10. They won SB's because they had an unstoppable O with Brady.

Contrast that to someone like Dick LeBeau who had a fantastic D year after year in Pittsburgh.

[DevilSpawn]

Hey pal, for me it's irony perhaps, but the team you have on your post (as in, they suck) seems like a good destination, if he goes anywhere. Now, Rivers has to move over, but Brady is familiar with Southern Cal, and that teams has all sorts of O weapons. But hey, that's just a wild guess on my part. Odds are, as you say, he does not leave for another team.

And to be honest, I am not sure he is the QB he once was. Certainly not more mobile. But he's still better than most, if given the time to throw.

I hear the Chargers are re-signing Rivers. I can't see a scenario of Brady leaving the Pats for another team because I can't see the Pats letting that happen.

All of the remaining teams in the playoffs can beat New England, which hasn't been the case in the past.

[bronx_2003]

I hear the Chargers are re-signing Rivers. I can't see a scenario of Brady leaving the Pats for another team because I can't see the Pats letting that happen.

All of the remaining teams in the playoffs can beat New England, which hasn't been the case in the past.

Yep, agree.

Apart from Brady unlikely to leave NE I don't see how Brady is an upgrade over Rivers at this stage of his career. Especially as he would be in a new environment, with a new system, coaches, and players.

Do you think Rivers gets a 1 year deal and you use your number 6 pick on a QB ?

[beastlyskronk]

Great QB's are great QB's whereever they play, but Brady is coming to the end so I don't think he would do himself any justice moving somewhere else to prove something.

They are but Brady growing up a fan of Montana shouldn’t be underestimated in all of this. People still argue Montana being a system QB despite what he was able to do in KC.

For the record I don’t think Brady should leave either but I think in his mind it is a very real possibility

[CanDB]

Yep, agree.

Apart from Brady unlikely to leave NE I don't see how Brady is an upgrade over Rivers at this stage of his career. Especially as he would be in a new environment, with a new system, coaches, and players.

Do you think Rivers gets a 1 year deal and you use your number 6 pick on a QB ?

A number of mocks have them taking Justin Herbert.

[Spice 1]

The NE D has been pretty solid this season but tailed off badly lately and got lit up by Miami last week. The NE D in the BB era has been mostly solid but nothing that good, I bet a lot of seasons it wasn't even top 10. They won SB's because they had an unstoppable O with Brady.

Contrast that to someone like Dick LeBeau who had a fantastic D year after year in Pittsburgh.

Here's what separates BB in my eyes. One game to win. You need to slow down a great offense to give a mediocre or otherwise offense a chance to win. BB has to be your guy. Look at what he did to the Bills in '90. #1 scoring team in the league. Scored like 100 points in their 2 playoff games going in. Giants beat them with Jeff Hostetler. Look at what the Jets were doing to us in the first half in '98. Look at what he did to the Greatest Show on Turf. Last year against the Rams also. Pats have had their fair share of bad playoff performances defensively, but if anybody can figure out a way to slow down a great offense it's BB.

I'm a huge fan of LeBeau, but for reference sake, just look at our Tebow team. Look at what he did to LeBeaux's Steelers and what happened against BB. I think this year's team was inflated by a weak early schedule, myself. They're struggling to stop the run big time as I type this.

Another thing I think is worth noting is that BB spent a lot of time as a DB's coach. Look at how good corners and safeties suddenly become when they play for NE.

[CanDB]

Here's what separates BB in my eyes. One game to win. You need to slow down a great offense to give a mediocre or otherwise offense a chance to win. BB has to be your guy. Look at what he did to the Bills in '90. #1 scoring team in the league. Scored like 100 points in their 2 playoff games going in. Giants beat them with Jeff Hostetler. Look at what the Jets were doing to us in the first half in '98. Look at what he did to the Greatest Show on Turf. Last year against the Rams also. Pats have had their fair share of bad playoff performances defensively, but if anybody can figure out a way to slow down a great offense it's BB.

I'm a huge fan of LeBeau, but for reference sake, just look at our Tebow team. Look at what he did to LeBeaux's Steelers and what happened against BB. I think this year's team was inflated by a weak early schedule, myself. They're struggling to stop the run big time as I type this.

Another thing I think is worth noting is that BB spent a lot of time as a DB's coach. Look at how good corners and safeties suddenly become when they play for NE.

Although I have to spit on the ground as I say this, I tend to agree. Though there have been many a great Defensive coach/coordinator, BB has a knack of assessing strengths and weaknesses, and breaking them down to manageable pieces....usually resulting in victories.