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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chronoless View Post
    Right now the biggest issue is.... will Elway bring lock back from IR, you can only bring 2 back and Elway sounds like he is bring Tim Patrick back (in an interveiw), that leaves 1.What happens if Elway decides he won't bring Lock back?
    If they donít get Lock on the field this year it will tell me they plan on just rolling with Flacco next year - which I personally donít want.

    I really believe Lock must be evaluated this year to make assessments about the draft and the QB position. Hiding Lock on IR will seem like they want to stick with the bridge QB approach next year. Yuck.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by RocketArm006 View Post
    If they donít get Lock on the field this year it will tell me they plan on just rolling with Flacco next year - which I personally donít want.

    I really believe Lock must be evaluated this year to make assessments about the draft and the QB position. Hiding Lock on IR will seem like they want to stick with the bridge QB approach next year. Yuck.
    Please tell me that Flacco is not the QB next year.


  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanDB View Post
    Please tell me that Flacco is not the QB next year.

    I super duper hope not. I donít want him or any other vet mercenary rental QB. Letís identify our young franchise QB and get him out there.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanDB View Post
    Messes up my plan!! But there's a compromise....he hires a quality GM, and stays on as Prez.
    Elway is the only Bronco GM able to find a QB capable of winning multiple playoff games since he retired 20 years ago.

    What makes you think his replacement will be able to do better?
    All I want for Christmas is a Bronco QB controversy

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hadez View Post
    Elway is the only Bronco GM able to find a QB capable of winning multiple playoff games since he retired 20 years ago.

    What makes you think his replacement will be able to do better?
    I would argue that, since Manning, he has shown a weakness in terms of evaluating QBs/prospects, and in that same vein, in choosing Oliners as well. My gut tells me that there are GM types out there who could get a better read in terms of need/talent in both those areas.

    Plus, it is the read I get from fellow members, who overall tend to believe our Oline is a mess, that our QB situation is nowhere near being resolved, and the fact that many are not pleased with our GM. It's the read I have, personally. IMO....there are a number of folks out there that could assess the situation and seek to improve, even if not overnight. Whereas I have not seen a noticeable improvement at QB/OLine for years.
    Last edited by CanDB; 10-23-2019 at 11:52 AM.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanDB View Post
    I would argue that, since Manning, he has shown a weakness in terms of evaluating QBs/prospects, and in that same vein, in choosing Oliners as well. My gut tells me that there are GM types out there who could get a better read in terms of need/talent in both those areas.

    Plus, it is the read I get from fellow members, who overall tend to believe our Oline is a mess, that our QB situation is nowhere near being resolved, and the fact that many are not pleased with our GM. It's the read I have, personally. IMO....there are a number of folks out there that could assess the situation and seek to improve, even if not overnight. Whereas I have not seen a noticeable improvement at QB/OLine for years.
    There are also plenty of GMs that could do a lot worse.

    The Jags have missed on a couple first rounders in Gabbert and Bortles.

    The Titans missed on Vince Young, Jake Locker and it looks like they missed on Mariota.

    Vikings missed on Ponder amd Bridgewater (who they may have just given up on too soon).

    The Raiders missed on JaMarcus Russell and David Carr has been a stable starter but hasn't exactly elevated Oakland to the next step.

    The Redskins have missed on Campbell and RG3.

    The list of QBs the Browns have missed on extends back to their rejoining the league. Mayfield looks decemt but how much failure happened before him.

    Drafting QBs is a crap shoot. Is it 100% on Elway that he hasn't found the guy yet? I don't think so. Should he get canned just because we, like so many other teams are still searching for a franchise guy? I don't think so.

    Our D is still top tier. We have some young weapons on the offensive sode of the ball in Lindsay, Freeman, and Sutton. We get a dynamic young QB, and this team that Elway has built can be a threat. If we had Mahommes or Watson, would we be 2-5 right now? No.

    Fact is, the NFL is about the passer and there are a lot of teams lacking a legit threat at the position. We aren't in a unique position in that regard. But at the very least we can be confident enough in the rest of the team that if we get a legit QB with NFL skills, we have a good enough team to contend.

    If Lock fails, then maybe Elway should be on the hot seat. But I can't imagine another GM coming in here and doing much better than he has.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megalodon30 View Post
    There are also plenty of GMs that could do a lot worse.

    The Jags have missed on a couple first rounders in Gabbert and Bortles.

    The Titans missed on Vince Young, Jake Locker and it looks like they missed on Mariota.

    Vikings missed on Ponder amd Bridgewater (who they may have just given up on too soon).

    The Raiders missed on JaMarcus Russell and David Carr has been a stable starter but hasn't exactly elevated Oakland to the next step.

    The Redskins have missed on Campbell and RG3.

    The list of QBs the Browns have missed on extends back to their rejoining the league. Mayfield looks decemt but how much failure happened before him.

    Drafting QBs is a crap shoot. Is it 100% on Elway that he hasn't found the guy yet? I don't think so. Should he get canned just because we, like so many other teams are still searching for a franchise guy? I don't think so.

    Our D is still top tier. We have some young weapons on the offensive sode of the ball in Lindsay, Freeman, and Sutton. We get a dynamic young QB, and this team that Elway has built can be a threat. If we had Mahommes or Watson, would we be 2-5 right now? No.

    Fact is, the NFL is about the passer and there are a lot of teams lacking a legit threat at the position. We aren't in a unique position in that regard. But at the very least we can be confident enough in the rest of the team that if we get a legit QB with NFL skills, we have a good enough team to contend.

    If Lock fails, then maybe Elway should be on the hot seat. But I can't imagine another GM coming in here and doing much better than he has.
    Fair enough. Not exactly how I see it, but that's cool. Yes, there are some positives.

    My question to you, putting the QB situation aside for a minute.....are you satisfied with the Oline, and do you think we have addressed it properly over the last few seasons?

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanDB View Post
    Fair enough. Not exactly how I see it, but that's cool. Yes, there are some positives.

    My question to you, putting the QB situation aside for a minute.....are you satisfied with the Oline, and do you think we have addressed it properly over the last few seasons?
    The o-line is not good. We definitely need an upgrade at left tackle. I have a feeling the o-line would look considerably better had James not gotten injured. And I also wonder how much of it is Flacco.

    If you put Brady behind pur o-line does it look as bad? If you put Flacco behind the Pats o-line, are they still an undefeated team? Having a franchise QB cures a lot of ills. I'm not as concerned with critically assessing the o-line until we have a competent QB.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megalodon30 View Post
    The o-line is not good. We definitely need an upgrade at left tackle. I have a feeling the o-line would look considerably better had James not gotten injured. And I also wonder how much of it is Flacco.

    If you put Brady behind pur o-line does it look as bad? If you put Flacco behind the Pats o-line, are they still an undefeated team? Having a franchise QB cures a lot of ills. I'm not as concerned with critically assessing the o-line until we have a competent QB.
    That leads to my initial commentary...we have neither a decent QB or Oline, and the issue was known about for years, with various opportunities to remedy. Who is ultimately responsible? And why can we not expect a little more, from him or a new member of the organization?

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanDB View Post
    That leads to my initial commentary...we have neither a decent QB or Oline, and the issue was known about for years, with various opportunities to remedy. Who is ultimately responsible? And why can we not expect a little more, from him or a new member of the organization?
    It's perfectly fine to expect more. But it's not entirely his fault that we haven't found a QB. As I showed, there are plenty of NFL franchises that have struggled to find a decent QB. At least Elway has done his best to try to build a complete team aside from the QB position.

    We could be a lot worse off than we currently are. And I don't think blaming everything on Elway and firing him is going to magically solve our QB and o-line problems. We get rid of Elway and we'd still need a QB.

    If the next GM misses on 2 or 3 QB draft picks do we fire him too? What happens if he misses in the QB and the rest of the team falls apart as well? As I said, we could do a lot worse than Elway has.

  11. #26
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    It's a shame the Broncos are so scared of 'REBUILDING'

    Because of this denial, it's cost the team and it's fans a ton of enjoyment and pleasure

    Without risk you're not going to find rewards. Smart risks yes, not Paxton Lynch and Bolles.

    Why not close up the middling project called 'win now on' and 'we're not rebuilding' ................and open the new project REBUILD. Take a risk and move our players who don't figure in to the team's near future success. We end up just moving Sanders yet the team could really help itself and the fans psyche by starting over. EVEN the thought of a rebuild makes me more excited than the mediocrity of the multiple layers of band aids covering the logo. Some weren't even band aids but failed fixes.

    Now it seems we're not going to see Lock before MAYBE the last 4 games. Why. Scared? Scared of what? Looking bad? Hate to break it to you front office, you already lost that battle

    How many seasons do we have to be mediocre to BAD .........and things aren't pointing up........ before the managers of this team will grow a sack and makes some BIG moves and excite this fan-base and team once again.
    Last edited by dizzolve; 10-23-2019 at 03:05 PM.
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  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megalodon30 View Post
    It's perfectly fine to expect more. But it's not entirely his fault that we haven't found a QB. As I showed, there are plenty of NFL franchises that have struggled to find a decent QB. At least Elway has done his best to try to build a complete team aside from the QB position.

    We could be a lot worse off than we currently are. And I don't think blaming everything on Elway and firing him is going to magically solve our QB and o-line problems. We get rid of Elway and we'd still need a QB.

    If the next GM misses on 2 or 3 QB draft picks do we fire him too? What happens if he misses in the QB and the rest of the team falls apart as well? As I said, we could do a lot worse than Elway has.
    If the next GM messes up the QB position, and does not strengthen the Oline, you turf them. BUT...I believe that there are good football people out there who will be more successful in those two "critical" areas of concern.

    So I see the glass is half full in terms of choosing a qualified GM. If you put trust in a person to do that job as it should be done, part of the expectation would be to improve the QB/Oline situations, and to build an O that can withstand the test of time, around those 6 men. If you have both, you can find RBs and WRs and TEs to fit in. Now, having said that, we have two good, young backs and at least one good, young WR.
    Last edited by CanDB; 10-23-2019 at 03:15 PM.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanDB View Post
    I would argue that, since Manning, he has shown a weakness in terms of evaluating QBs/prospects, and in that same vein, in choosing Oliners as well. My gut tells me that there are GM types out there who could get a better read in terms of need/talent in both those areas.

    Plus, it is the read I get from fellow members, who overall tend to believe our Oline is a mess, that our QB situation is nowhere near being resolved, and the fact that many are not pleased with our GM. It's the read I have, personally. IMO....there are a number of folks out there that could assess the situation and seek to improve, even if not overnight. Whereas I have not seen a noticeable improvement at QB/OLine for years.
    Elway is the only GM the Broncos have had since Elway retired as a QB that has been able to get a qb who has won multiple playoff games for the Broncos.

    It is not like good GMs are falling off trees out there.
    All I want for Christmas is a Bronco QB controversy

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hadez View Post
    Elway is the only GM the Broncos have had since Elway retired as a QB that has been able to get a qb who has won multiple playoff games for the Broncos.

    It is not like good GMs are falling off trees out there.
    That's cool....in the eyes of the beholder. Maybe it's my gut, or hopefully a combo of facts/gut, but the magic seems to have disappeared for me, as it sort of did when Shanny seemed to lose it.

    And my feelings go this way about sports leaders.....they tend to not get the magic back. Now, folks can provide many examples of the opposite, and I will certainly entertain that discussion, especially if I am wrong. But I've seen this happen too often. And my theory is, their magic formula (so to speak) was best utilized in a given era, whereas those who are more adaptable / innovative, appear to last longer.

    Some folks here may wonder about my slightly changed commentary around The Pats, because I have said some positives about them of late. I still do not like them. But when I get frustrated with other teams, including The Broncs, I realize that The Pats deserve some praise now and again, because they do not sit back for a second. Lets just try to overlook the "cheater" conversation, and the easy schedule, and so on, and think objectively about Belichick and Brady and even McD. They keep finding ways to win.

    Folks who play fantasy know exactly that feeling....you seldom feel safe with any of their performers, because they will flip flop on you when you least expect it. Sure, Brady is the QB, but often the RBs/WRs and even TEs, have differing impact. And I attribute that to their adaptability/innovation primarily. They are focussed on strengths/weaknesses, how folks fit, and execution. As I say, outside of the things we tend to dislike about them, they are the best team of this century.....which is 1/5th along the way.
    Last edited by CanDB; 10-24-2019 at 11:31 AM.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanDB View Post
    That's cool....in the eyes of the beholder. Maybe it's my gut, or hopefully a combo of facts/gut, but the magic seems to have disappeared for me, as it sort of did when Shanny seemed to lose it.

    And my feelings go this way about sports leaders.....they tend to not get the magic back. Now, folks can provide many examples of the opposite, and I will certainly entertain that discussion, especially if I am wrong. But I've seen this happen too often. And my theory is, their magic formula (so to speak) was best utilized in a given era, whereas those who are more adaptable / innovative, appear to last longer.

    Some folks here may wonder about my slightly changed commentary around The Pats, because I have said some positives about them of late. I still do not like them. But when I get frustrated with other teams, including The Broncs, I realize that The Pats deserve some praise now and again, because they do not sit back for a second. Lets just try to overlook the "cheater" conversation, and the easy schedule, and so on, and think objectively about Belichick and Brady and even McD. They keep finding ways to win.

    Folks who play fantasy know exactly that feeling....you seldom feel safe with any of their performers, because they will flip flop on you when you least expect it. Sure, Brady is the QB, but often the RBs/WRs and even TEs, have differing impact. And I attribute that to their adaptability/innovation primarily. They are focussed on strengths/weaknesses, how folks fit, and execution. As I say, outside of the things we tend to dislike about them, they are the best team of this century.....which is 1/5th along the way.
    I think when it comes to football outside of a very few people in the world there is a lot more unknown than is known. Most of us are going by gut feeling. Maybe a few observations that need to be tempered with the idea that we do not even know the play calls and responsibilities of each play so even if we have all the football knowledge we need we will do not have the inside knowledge we need to truly evaluate things.

    That is my thoughts on how most people come to conclusions.

    With that in mind I consider how hard it is to win in the NFL and how many people have NEVER done it. How many people have won in the regular season but lost in the playoffs. How many people may have won a playoff game or multiple playoff games but have never won a championship. I think about just how hard it is to win in the NFL.

    With that in mind I pick loyalty. Loyalty to those who have brought us a Ring or more. Loyalty to the people who have figured out how to win a Ring in the NFL for the Broncos.

    It is why I will come to the defense of just about any coach or player who has won a ring for the Broncos. I am a Bronco fan and to me...they have earned it.
    All I want for Christmas is a Bronco QB controversy

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