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  1. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by 58Miller View Post
    We can see how PFF grades him, I thought he played good enough for us to get the win
    True, but there's no denying there are serious issues at LT that need to be addressed. Just waiting for someone to 'get it' after this long doesn't seem reasonable. I'm not suggesting pulling him now because we have no one to take his place, but next season. ... decisions need to be made.
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  2. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by broncolee View Post
    Whether VJ got a fair shake from the team or not is debatable.

    Whatís not debatable is that he didnít get a fair shake from many on these boards.

    I donít care that he was fired. It had to happen whether he was treated fairly by the organization or not.

    I just find it a little fascinating that the same people who never wanted to give VJ a chance in the first place, are okay with the horrible start by Fangio.

    Whether or not heís a superior coordinator is irrelevant. I want to see evidence that heís a superior head coach.
    VJ was bad....that's a fact. He came to the Broncos after competing with a Shanahan for the job...kind of a beloved name around Colorado. It didnt help that Kyle quickly put together a winning team....and we sank.

    So ya, he probably got less of a chance in the minds of fans....but that doesn't change the fact he was objectively a terrible coach.

    Vic can be compared after a couple of years...the same time frame Vance got.
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    Adopted Bronco: Andy Janovich

  3. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavisMVP View Post
    Vic is getting the same treatment as Vance as far as players, but not the same criticism as Vance got. Vance had way worse QB's and special team draft picks to deal with then Vic, but no one is talking about it. And has Von Miller playing way,way,way, worse. Very interesting to see how people view coaches and Managers.
    WOW - You and I see things VERY VERY VERY differently.

    Vance was taking over a team which was 9-7 and still had a defense which was playing at a pretty high level. In addition Vance's main and primary skill-set was Defense. So we should have been stellar on that side of the ball.

    For our 1st round pick in Vance's 1st year he got a new LT and we then followed that up with a DE who was a GREAT college player and could sack the QB in Walker. As a defensive guy Walker should have been Vance's pick to tweak and make better. Instead he forced him to drop a ton of weight and then try him out as an OLB....Instead we should have kept Walker and cut one of Anderson or Marshall to allow for the promotion of a natural OLB in Marcus Rush.. In terms of PR/KR I am not sure that you and I agree. We drafted Isaiah McKenzie who was know for his return game we also had Cody Latimer, Jordan Taylor and Devontae Booker. At the end of the day what we saw from ST was poor play and even worse blocking.

    What made Vance's tenure here so much worse then what we are seeing from Vic thus far is that VJ was repeating the same mistakes over and over again. PLUS Vance's main area of expertise was awful. If memory serves I think our defense was raked 20th or worse in 2017.

    Now I will agree that Von is NOT sacking the QB what he is forcing coverage to lean in his direction, he is also being asked to play in coverage a lot more and as a result he is just not getting the same number of attempts and teeing off on the QB as he normally would. Also Vic is not a blitz guy and nor is he an exotic look guy either. So some of the types of rushes we'd see from Wade in the past are just not run.

    Overall I think Vic is a better coach than VJ ever was for us. Our defense even with some of their small issues here and there is playing well. That is his area and that is what we are doing well with. Now the kicker will be if Vic and John finally pull their head out of their you know what's and either go full out for OL AND/OR think that a new OC is needed as well.

  4. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by 58Miller View Post
    How did he block on the 3 tds?
    Quote Originally Posted by 58Miller View Post
    Focusing on two plays.....
    Bolles also was in on plays that lead to 24 pts and a Broncos win!!
    Bolles is a winner today
    Here is a third, also a played we scored on....how did he block?

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1191117062971654144

    BCMB Div I - AB's Etsy Shop | BCMB FF Smackdown - Cold Feet

  5. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich_C View Post
    WOW - You and I see things VERY VERY VERY differently.

    Vance was taking over a team which was 9-7 and still had a defense which was playing at a pretty high level. In addition Vance's main and primary skill-set was Defense. So we should have been stellar on that side of the ball.

    For our 1st round pick in Vance's 1st year he got a new LT and we then followed that up with a DE who was a GREAT college player and could sack the QB in Walker. As a defensive guy Walker should have been Vance's pick to tweak and make better. Instead he forced him to drop a ton of weight and then try him out as an OLB....Instead we should have kept Walker and cut one of Anderson or Marshall to allow for the promotion of a natural OLB in Marcus Rush.. In terms of PR/KR I am not sure that you and I agree. We drafted Isaiah McKenzie who was know for his return game we also had Cody Latimer, Jordan Taylor and Devontae Booker. At the end of the day what we saw from ST was poor play and even worse blocking.

    What made Vance's tenure here so much worse then what we are seeing from Vic thus far is that VJ was repeating the same mistakes over and over again. PLUS Vance's main area of expertise was awful. If memory serves I think our defense was raked 20th or worse in 2017.

    Now I will agree that Von is NOT sacking the QB what he is forcing coverage to lean in his direction, he is also being asked to play in coverage a lot more and as a result he is just not getting the same number of attempts and teeing off on the QB as he normally would. Also Vic is not a blitz guy and nor is he an exotic look guy either. So some of the types of rushes we'd see from Wade in the past are just not run.

    Overall I think Vic is a better coach than VJ ever was for us. Our defense even with some of their small issues here and there is playing well. That is his area and that is what we are doing well with. Now the kicker will be if Vic and John finally pull their head out of their you know what's and either go full out for OL AND/OR think that a new OC is needed as well.
    I am absolutely with you on this.

    Vance Joseph is by far the worst HC we have had during the Bowlen Family's ownership. He was absolutely lost at games speed and I cannot point to a single positive development the team underwent under VJ's leadership. VJ came to an organization that had not had a losing season in 6 years prior, and he produced the first back to back loosing seasons in more than 40 years, and 4 weeks into his first regular season he began setting the record for the longest loosing streak in Broncos history. While NFL.com had some article about unfair treatment of certain HC's, but we really have to look at the "treatment" of VJ in Broncos perspective.

    The HC's fired during the Bowlen ownership are:

    Dan Reeves - HC for 12 seasons with 3 AFC championships, 2 losing seasons and only one in the last 10 years and 2x8w seasons (Thank you Dan for not letting Elway be a Cutler)
    Wade Philips - HC for two seasons 9/7 + 7/9 and WC loss
    Shanahan - HC for 14 seasons - 2 losing seasons, 2 SB championships and 10 winning seasons
    McDaniels - 1Ĺ seasons in the midst of team rebuild, 2 solid drafts and a pretty stellar change in 2009.
    Fox - 4 seasons as head coach - 4 division championships, one AFC championship - that is just not good enough!

    Then here comes VJ - unprepared team - 4 QBs that play unde him have their worst career results, first back to back loosing seasons in more than 40 years and the longest losing streak in Broncos history. VJ was massively in over his head with coaching, and if we compare him to McDaniels it was absolutely not in game management and the XO that he had problems with, and to be fair JMD was 32 years old, Bowlen was being lost to Alsheimers while we only heard rumours, there was no management to help with football - at least afterwards GM Xanders supposedly had nothing to do with anything negative that transpired with the team in 2010.

    VJ brought absolutely nothing positive - nothing pointing forward. The players that McD drafted in 2010 were instrumental the 2011 turnaround when Elway and Fox decided to go win the suck for Luck competition, and it has to remain speculation what McDaniels could have gotten out of that team if he had not gotten the boot as soon as we were mathematically eliminated from the playoffs.

    Vic will be booted if things don't improve but lets be real - we have to loose the next 4 to match VJ's first season.






    Prior to that

  6. #171
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    Bolles has been in the league for a few years now. He is still making the same mistakes he did when he came in. He has killed way too many good plays at clutch times with holding calls. He gets beat around the corner a looootttttt. As long as he is the blindside tackle we will be playing russian roulette with our quarterbacks. The Bolles at left tackle era needs to end.
    My Boss is a Jewish Carpenter

  7. #172
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    Vance took over a winning team. Two head coaches before him were able to take the Broncos to the playoffs with the same GM. Vance took that winning and brought us a top 5 draft pick and top 10 draft pick.

    Vic's story is still being written. Right now we can say he took over a top 5 draft and top 10 draft team.
    Champ Bailey is the only player in NFL history to earn 200+ (203) Passes Defended
    Terrell Davis is 3rd all time in rushing yards per game (97.5)

  8. #173
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    Is this a thread about Vance and his raw deal or 72?
    Champ Bailey is the only player in NFL history to earn 200+ (203) Passes Defended
    Terrell Davis is 3rd all time in rushing yards per game (97.5)

  9. #174
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    Vance, Bolles, Raw Deal, Qb's ? Lets hope for a better second half.....

  10. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by dipablo View Post
    Here is a third, also a played we scored on....how did he block?

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1191117062971654144
    Heíll come back and tell you Bolles played well despite Allen getting crushed there. VJ should have benched Bolles last season. Fangio should have benched him.

  11. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hadez View Post
    Is this a thread about Vance and his raw deal or 72?
    Donít you see the parallel between the two? Theyíre both bad at what they do. I actually like VJ, he just wasnít ready to be a head coach.

  12. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by JW7 View Post
    Preach? A lot of people wanted to give VJ two years. It was clear after two years that the team needed to move in a different direction and you're out here after 8 games into Fangio's tenure complaining?
    I believe the point he is making is that 8 games into VJ's tenure people were already complaining and calling for him to be fired.

  13. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
    He’ll come back and tell you Bolles played well despite Allen getting crushed there. VJ should have benched Bolles last season. Fangio should have benched him.
    Hilarious that people are laughing at 72, but as the front office had rose colored glasses on and saw their 1st round draft pick as an NFL player.

    Today its TOO Late to bench him, we have no replacement. Ja'Wuan James (knee) has given Denver only 32 snaps for the $32 million in guarantees he signed for.

    Another hard lesson and a poorly executed job running the team, when will there be someone with authority to replace what some see as incompetence directing this team.

  14. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by broncolee View Post
    Hire a new head coach and keep Vic as the DC.

    When VJ was five games in and had a 3-2 record, yíall wanted him fired. Donít say it isnít so, thereís a thread to prove it.

    You didnít want to give the man a chance in the first place.


    Vic is a superior coordinator, but there is little evidence at the moment to suggest heís a superior head coach.
    This. For whatever reason (I have my thoughts on that), people didn't like VJ from the start and found the bad in everything. When the team was 3-2, it was because the teams they played were bad and we barely beat them. Almost seemed like people were rooting for us to lose to confirm their bias. Now it's the opposite. The team has a worse record, but people are finding reasons why we actually look better. At any rate, I'm willing to give Vic the same benefit of the doubt I gave VJ. But if we continue to look bad next year, then he should be on the hot seat just like VJ was.

  15. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
    Heíll come back and tell you Bolles played well despite Allen getting crushed there. VJ should have benched Bolles last season. Fangio should have benched him.
    I can speak for myself, and for Bolles yes I have seen him play-worse games.

    Things i didnít say:
    - heís not a bust

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