So now we're seeing how much of a raw deal Vance got.

[Rich_C]

Your right Bolles did get beat bad on the TD to Fant, Allen bailed him out.
The TDs by Sutton and Lindsay he appears to do his assignment, nothing stood out as good or bad.

*He did block two guys on the wild cat play that sealed the game.

As far as your post, I didn’t know who it was directed to, or what it was about, was hoping you could add more to what sounded like a straw man argument.

My thoughts on Bolles were in line with what the coach had to say today about him.
Fangio on Bolles: “ I think Garett kind of plays with more confidence than you think and maybe that is warranted. He didn’t play too bad yesterday.”

If you consider that defending him, then that’s the way you see it. I didn’t think he was great or horrible.

I have read what must have been 5+ posts in this thread which are shocking to me. When I look at Bolles I actually see a LOT of VJ in him. Vance kept going out there and did the same thing over and over again yet claimed to be working his tail off.

Ultimately the NFL is full of Bolles' and VJ's. They have played so well through their careers to date that raw talent and skill have gotten them to where they are today. The VERY VERY best in the NFL are that skilled BUT they learn quickly that in order to be truly better than the rest that they need to improve and learn techniques. Details in the NFL matter and are often what separate the Average from the Good and the Good from the Elite.


If I am to look at Bolles and give an honest critique- it is simple. He is an Average to barely above average LT in this league. He often fails at his technique and from an outsider looking in is unwilling to adapt and pay attention to the details to make himself better. He is not putting in the time to make new techniques habbits in order to break old habbits and make them go away for good. To me this is akin to a golfer trying to work out a slice form their swing. In order to get rid of that flip of the wrist at the top of the swing arch you simply need to keep hitting balls at the range, over and over again until the "new" swing becomes the only swing your body remembers how to do automatically.

I do agree that Bolles has a few plays a game where you look at him and say wow---nice job. This however can be true for a lot of average to slightly above average players. Our teams issue right now is that we do not have a Tom Brady who knows the answers to the test before it starts. Or a Drew Brees, Big Ben etc. We are a team who is fielding a 1st time QB and/or an aging QB who is slow as sin at his reads. We need a LT and RT who can hold their own and who can be coached up to learn proper techniques.Guys who are both capable and willing to move from Above Average (Good) to Elite. I am sure that Elway was hoping that because Bolles was older coming out that he'd have the maturity to look inward and correct things. Not so different then he has in his personal life. Bolles should be commended for that. It does however seem that Bolles at this stage is simply not pulling out of the rut that he is in and the team cannot wait for him to figure it out.

[Rich_C]

What's lost in the widespread anger over the W-L record is how hard the Broncos are playing, how evident it is they've bought into the program and the development of young and previously marginal players (e.g. Purcell, Walker, Johnson, Reed, Hollins, D. Harris, Dawson, Simmons) The play of vets Wolfe, Davis and Jackson has provided leadership and has helped compensate for the loss of Chubb. There is a lot of great coaching happening in plain sight for those who care to take note of it.

Sam this is 100%. The one issue I have is that all of your examples are ONLY on the defensive side of the ball. It is clear that our defensive coaches are exactly who they need to be. They are elevating players who our previous regimes simply couldn't and I'd argue were incapable of doing. Where it is clear that we have real issues is on the offensive side of the ball. There are no real veteran leaders there. We are missing guys who can say and do. Joe really should have been that guy but let's be honest - he failed - big time. I think Lindsay is looking good as is Sutton - Risner as well. Although are they veteran enough and vocal enough to whip guys back into shape. Aside from those few true standouts and a few others who are close but just not at their level we are really in a tough spot there. What I'd like to see is Bolles move to the OG spot where Leary is. Slide Elijah Wilkinson to the position which he knew more about (LT). Perhaps this plan is more feasible once James has the Bye to heal more....The hope is that Allen or Lock can start to develop as players and leaders for the team. This should also assist with Lindsay & Sutton to elevate themselves into leadership roles as well.

[samparnell]

Sam this is 100%. The one issue I have is that all of your examples are ONLY on the defensive side of the ball. It is clear that our defensive coaches are exactly who they need to be. They are elevating players who our previous regimes simply couldn't and I'd argue were incapable of doing. Where it is clear that we have real issues is on the offensive side of the ball. There are no real veteran leaders there. We are missing guys who can say and do. Joe really should have been that guy but let's be honest - he failed - big time. I think Lindsay is looking good as is Sutton - Risner as well. Although are they veteran enough and vocal enough to whip guys back into shape. Aside from those few true standouts and a few others who are close but just not at their level we are really in a tough spot there. What I'd like to see is Bolles move to the OG spot where Leary is. Slide Elijah Wilkinson to the position which he knew more about (LT). Perhaps this plan is more feasible once James has the Bye to heal more....The hope is that Allen or Lock can start to develop as players and leaders for the team. This should also assist with Lindsay & Sutton to elevate themselves into leadership roles as well.

I was responding to a post about Denver's D.

Denver's O-Line needs to be upgraded, but they have a good group of skill guys. Getting Dalton (aka "Route 66") was a big step in the right direction. Sutton, Fant, Lindsey, Freeman and Janovich make a good, young core group going forward. There are guys on the roster, PS and IR who will have a chance to step up, be coached and play in the future. Scangarello does well with young QBs and Denver has three of them.

[Hadez]

What's lost in the widespread anger over the W-L record is how hard the Broncos are playing, how evident it is they've bought into the program and the development of young and previously marginal players (e.g. Purcell, Walker, Johnson, Reed, Hollins, D. Harris, Dawson, Simmons) The play of vets Wolfe, Davis and Jackson has provided leadership and has helped compensate for the loss of Chubb. There is a lot of great coaching happening in plain sight for those who care to take note of it.

I have seen it as well.

IMO most of the problems we are going through this year is just a reflection on how bad the coaching has been the last two years.

Coaching as bad as we had the last couple years makes a lot of other areas in the organization difficult that are not as easy to see imo.

[Hadez]

I was responding to a post about Denver's D.

Denver's O-Line needs to be upgraded, but they have a good group of skill guys. Getting Dalton (aka "Route 66") was a big step in the right direction. Sutton, Fant, Lindsey, Freeman and Janovich make a good, young core group going forward. There are guys on the roster, PS and IR who will have a chance to step up, be coached and play in the future. Scangarello does well with young QBs and Denver has three of them.

Agree with this as well.

I been saying since Vance's first year that our offense was a min 2 year rebuild project.

It does seem like enough has improved that MAYBE we can say this off-season is year 2.

[L.M.]

Every year I want to see Denver draft a good O-Lineman in the first couple of rounds. I was excited when they got Dalton (aka "Route 66") this year. I will be pretty disappointed if the first guy they pick next Spring isn't the best LT available.

I would love it if the first two picks went to OL with Munchak's input on the choices.

[johnlimburg]

Good eye. I rewatched the play myself and was surprised to see how bad Bolles got beat by Olivier Vernon. Vernon didn't do anything complex either, just a casual stutter step and karate chop as he went around Bolles and Bolles was left swiping at air. I don't know much about football, but would Bolles be better suited if he moved into the interior of the offensive line? He wouldn't have to move laterally as much and he might be able to bully interior defensive linemen on run plays.

A lot of people thought this would potentially be the path he went down coming out of Utah, but he has been forced to stay on the edge due to the team roster in my opinion. Bolles at Utah was excellent run blocking, seemed to really understand leverage and angles in the run game, but it just hasn't translated. Bolles seemed to have a bit of a bully attitude in school when he played as well, but he can't just do that in the NFL. In the future his best bet on surviving in the NFL would be to move inside where he would typical have help pass blocking, and would be able to avoid playing on an island against guys he just can't get his hands on.

On someone mentioning moving James to left tackle, I don't see that as a viable option. The thought process of just switching a tackle from left to right or right to left and expecting an easy transition is unrealistic. Plenty of offensive lineman have talked before about how it's like changing positions and learning a whole new craft, as everything is flipped. James is a career right tackle, a solid one, but if he was forced to play on the left he would go through plenty of struggles as well. If he ever gets healthy I would play him on the right, and just look to find a new left tackle. You are paying James a ridiculous amount of money, so play him where he "earned" that large paycheck.

[MileHighInNY]

I am sure that Elway was hoping that because Bolles was older coming out that he'd have the maturity to look inward and correct things. Not so different then he has in his personal life. Bolles should be commended for that. It does however seem that Bolles at this stage is simply not pulling out of the rut that he is in and the team cannot wait for him to figure it out.

I'm a life-long University of Utah fan and, having watched Bolles play in college, I am honestly surprised at the way he has turned out in the NFL. At Utah, he seemed like a mature, smart, dedicated guy who put in the work, inspired his teammates, and got the job done. He was a consistent and reliable blocker. I haven't seen any of those things since he was drafted--it's like he became a totally different player. He's sloppy with his technique, inconsistent in his play, and he shows few signs of really being focused and working hard to improve. Even I would probably have taken Ramczyk over Bolles in that draft, but to the extent that Elway thought he was getting a mature, hard-working guy who could just be plugged into the line and not worried about, I can't fault him for that, because I would have bet on Bolles having those same qualities.

[CanDB]

I'm a life-long University of Utah fan and, having watched Bolles play in college, I am honestly surprised at the way he has turned out in the NFL. At Utah, he seemed like a mature, smart, dedicated guy who put in the work, inspired his teammates, and got the job done. He was a consistent and reliable blocker. I haven't seen any of those things since he was drafted--it's like he became a totally different player. He's sloppy with his technique, inconsistent in his play, and he shows few signs of really being focused and working hard to improve. Even I would probably have taken Ramczyk over Bolles in that draft, but to the extent that Elway thought he was getting a mature, hard-working guy who could just be plugged into the line and not worried about, I can't fault him for that, because I would have bet on Bolles having those same qualities.

So what part of this is coaching related, given he had the game, but seemingly lost it? Or is this basically on him? IMO...I think both have something to do with it, though more on himself.

[cirehawk]

This ^

I don't understand what the gripe is. VJ was a terrible coach and was correctly dismissed. Anyone claiming anything other than incompetence as to why he's not here, is possibly just looking for something to be offended by.

Then in my opinion you're looking at it through the benefit of hindsight and not seeing the point that was being made. At the point we were 3-2 in his first year, how could anyway legitimately assess that he was a "terrible" coach? After our first 5 games this year we were 1-4, and went the first 3 or 4 games without a sack or a turnover. So is Vic a "terrible" coach as well?

[Freyaka]

Then in my opinion you're looking at it through the benefit of hindsight and not seeing the point that was being made. At the point we were 3-2 in his first year, how could anyway legitimately assess that he was a "terrible" coach? After our first 5 games this year we were 1-4, and went the first 3 or 4 games without a sack or a turnover. So is Vic a "terrible" coach as well?

It doesn't matter what lens you look at it through vj was terrible and he was rightly fired.

Who cares that fans didn't like him. They were correct not to, he sucked. Those fans had they liked him instead wouldn't have changed that outcome.

Fans did not want him, that wanted shanny, he had no resume to speak of and looked completely lost. Most people can look beyond wins and losses and see with their own eyes when something is not going to work.

Heck mcd started 6-0 but the signs were clearly there...

It goes beyond the record. As Sam said, it's clear for those paying attention that good coaching is happening, same couldn't be said of vj.

[beastlyskronk]

Then in my opinion you're looking at it through the benefit of hindsight and not seeing the point that was being made. At the point we were 3-2 in his first year, how could anyway legitimately assess that he was a "terrible" coach? After our first 5 games this year we were 1-4, and went the first 3 or 4 games without a sack or a turnover. So is Vic a "terrible" coach as well?

People claimed VJ was terrible because he had a 3-1 team look totally unprepared against a winless Giants team that was forced to play WRs off the streets. Then he followed that up with a bunch of blowouts.

VJ got the team closer in year 2 lessening the blowouts and playing tight games. With a completely new staff you’d expect some regression there but this team hasn’t regressed at all, they’re really about the same as they were last season maybe even a little better.

[broncolee]

Then in my opinion you're looking at it through the benefit of hindsight and not seeing the point that was being made. At the point we were 3-2 in his first year, how could anyway legitimately assess that he was a "terrible" coach? After our first 5 games this year we were 1-4, and went the first 3 or 4 games without a sack or a turnover. So is Vic a "terrible" coach as well?

Finally, someone who gets it.

3-2 is not the time to demand a coach be fired.

After 12 games and an 8 game losing streak, it might be understandable.

[Lumiere]

Then in my opinion you're looking at it through the benefit of hindsight and not seeing the point that was being made. At the point we were 3-2 in his first year, how could anyway legitimately assess that he was a "terrible" coach? After our first 5 games this year we were 1-4, and went the first 3 or 4 games without a sack or a turnover. So is Vic a "terrible" coach as well?

Headline reads, terrible coach was given two years at the helm and failed miserably, was dismissed by Elway, whom acknowledged that the hiring was a mistake.

The end. There's nothing more to the story.

[jazzy22jeff]

VJ got such a raw deal that no team in the league has offered him a head coaching job after he was fired....Funny how McDaniels is still a OC too......probably just more colusion by the NFL......