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  1. #106
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    That's quite an assumption. A lot of people have been tuned into the NFL much longer than yourself, and more closely. Now if you'd asked me who Fangio was a decade ago, I probably couldn't answer exactly even though his name had come up in passing, but his 49ers defense from 2011-2014 was top 5 (#2 in pts), went to the Superbowl in 2012. His name was very prominent during that stint and after it as an option when teams were looking for a HC.

    Give this guy a QB and a couple of offensive tackles and we are back in contention (it's a tall order, I know).
    Last edited by Peanut; 11-02-2019 at 01:36 PM. Reason: Deleted quoted post.
    Superbowl 50 MVP Von Miller on February 7th, 2016

  2. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by L.M. View Post
    That's quite an assumption. A lot of people have been tuned into the NFL much longer than yourself, and more closely. Now if you'd asked me who Fangio was a decade ago, I probably couldn't answer exactly even though his name had come up in passing, but his 49ers defense from 2011-2014 was top 5 (#2 in pts), went to the Superbowl in 2012. His name was very prominent during that stint and after it as an option when teams were looking for a HC.

    Give this guy a QB and a couple of offensive tackles and we are back in contention.
    Probably very true....which leads me to the issue about "give this guy". That is a big part of what I call the Broncos "trifecta":
    1) Management effectiveness - the "give this guy" part
    2) Long term QB
    3) Oline upgrade

  3. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by L.M. View Post
    That's quite an assumption. A lot of people have been tuned into the NFL much longer than yourself, and more closely. Now if you'd asked me who Fangio was a decade ago, I probably couldn't answer exactly even though his name had come up in passing, but his 49ers defense from 2011-2014 was top 5 (#2 in pts), went to the Superbowl in 2012. His name was very prominent during that stint and after it as an option when teams were looking for a HC.

    Give this guy a QB and a couple of offensive tackles and we are back in contention.
    That's when I first heard Fangio's name. I grew up in Northern California and watched a lot of Niners football. I was really wishing we had hired Harbaugh back in the day. If anyone can get something out of subpar QBs, it was him.

    But back to Fangio, I remember bow dominant those 49ers defenses were under Vic's coaching. I was really hoping he'd be the hire this offseason and was jacked when we did hire him. I'm still excited about having Fangio here. He came in as a defensive expert and our D is looking as dominant as we could ask for.

    I didn't expect the offense to get better overnight and am willing to give the staff more than half a season to see what they can build. It's on Elway to find a QB that can execute an NFL offense, and if he can, I think Fangio is the perfect leader for this team.

  4. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by L.M. View Post
    That's quite an assumption. A lot of people have been tuned into the NFL much longer than yourself, and more closely. Now if you'd asked me who Fangio was a decade ago, I probably couldn't answer exactly even though his name had come up in passing, but his 49ers defense from 2011-2014 was top 5 (#2 in pts), went to the Superbowl in 2012. His name was very prominent during that stint and after it as an option when teams were looking for a HC.

    Give this guy a QB and a couple of offensive tackles and we are back in contention (it's a tall order, I know).
    Talk about assumption yea ok. That if can be easily goggled, yarn....I stand by what I said. I didnt say 100% but I stand by my 95%.

  5. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ear2dastreets View Post
    Talk about assumption yea ok. That if can be easily goggled, yarn....I stand by what I said. I didnt say 100% but I stand by my 95%.
    Only 5% of us knew who Fangio was before 2017 even though he ran one of the best defenses in the League which went to the Superbowl? Okay! You go ahead and "stand" by that!
    Superbowl 50 MVP Von Miller on February 7th, 2016

  6. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanDB View Post
    Probably very true....which leads me to the issue about "give this guy". That is a big part of what I call the Broncos "trifecta":
    1) Management effectiveness - the "give this guy" part
    2) Long term QB
    3) Oline upgrade
    Hence my addendum "tall order".
    Superbowl 50 MVP Von Miller on February 7th, 2016

  7. #112
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    For whatever reason, I have more confidence in our teams defense now than I did the last couple years.

  8. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megalodon30 View Post
    He hasn't drawn as much criticism because he doesn't deserve much criticism. Some fans just want to complain. I say let 'em. Fangio has done a tremendous job restructuring this defense into one that is ready to carry a team with an average offense. Once we figure out what we're doing on offense, there's no doubt in my mind we'll see this team winning more ball games.
    The defense has improved however itís not ready to carry the team. They havenít closed games when given the opportunity. While officiating played a role they had the opportunities and didnít get it done in three games. The offense wonít figure it out until they settle in with a young quarterback to develop. Scangarello needs to improve his game.

    Fangio has done a poor job of handling Bolles. Bolles should have been benched by now. As a result heís sent a message to the team that some players are protected at all cost. Heís also made some stupid decisions like the 2 pt attempt after the opening score vs KC and the fake punt. Heís also passed on a couple of opportunities to challenge calls and mismanaged the play clock.

    There are a few good qualities about Fangio but thus far he hasnít proven anything.

  9. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
    The defense has improved however it’s not ready to carry the team. They haven’t closed games when given the opportunity. While officiating played a role they had the opportunities and didn’t get it done in three games. The offense won’t figure it out until they settle in with a young quarterback to develop. Scangarello needs to improve his game.

    Fangio has done a poor job of handling Bolles. Bolles should have been benched by now. As a result he’s sent a message to the team that some players are protected at all cost. He’s also made some stupid decisions like the 2 pt attempt after the opening score vs KC and the fake punt. He’s also passed on a couple of opportunities to challenge calls and mismanaged the play clock.

    There are a few good qualities about Fangio but thus far he hasn’t proven anything.
    I'm not judging the entire year the defense has had based on three drives. The defense held for the better part of 4 quarters of football. They've played well all year, and if they had an offense that could score more than 16 points a game, this defense would be getting plenty of praise.

    And yes Bolles should be benched, but considering we've spent every game with a backup at RT, it's safe to say we're thin at tackle right now. As bad as Bolles has been, how much worse would the unit be with backups at both tackle spots? I'm all for benching him, but it's not like we have a better option.

    As for the decisions in the KC game, I don't mind them. Considering Flacco just criticized the staff for not being aggressive, we're seeing a situation where Fangio is in a no win situation. Either he makes aggressive calls and gets criticized or we aren't being aggressive enough and he gets criticized. He's a first time HC. He'll figure it out the more games he coaches. I don't think much of the criticism is warranted yet.
    Eternal Broncos Optimist

  10. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megalodon30 View Post
    I'm not judging the entire year the defense has had based on three drives. The defense held for the better part of 4 quarters of football. They've played well all year, and if they had an offense that could score more than 16 points a game, this defense would be getting plenty of praise.

    And yes Bolles should be benched, but considering we've spent every game with a backup at RT, it's safe to say we're thin at tackle right now. As bad as Bolles has been, how much worse would the unit be with backups at both tackle spots? I'm all for benching him, but it's not like we have a better option.

    As for the decisions in the KC game, I don't mind them. Considering Flacco just criticized the staff for not being aggressive, we're seeing a situation where Fangio is in a no win situation. Either he makes aggressive calls and gets criticized or we aren't being aggressive enough and he gets criticized. He's a first time HC. He'll figure it out the more games he coaches. I don't think much of the criticism is warranted yet.
    No, the defense hasnít played well all year. They gave up 269 yards rushing at home to the Jaguars. Playing well all year means not giving up game winning drives three times. I can live with allowing a game winning drive once, maybe twice but not three times. They havenít generated enough turnovers and it took what, 5 games to register a sack? Iím not saying they havenít done anything but they arenít where they need to be. Von has been a no-show for most of the season.

    The issue with Bolles is larger than who they could have put at LT. A winning culture cannot have Bolles on the field disrespecting his teammates with garbage play week after week. Fangio needed to address that situation. Put a backup in there and give him help if necessary. Under no circumstance can you let that nonsense continue. Iíve been in situations when someone wasnít pulling their weight - I put that person on the street. Lead, follow or get out of the way.

    Lastly, thereís a difference between aggressive and a stupid decision. The fake punt was a stupid decision.
    Last edited by Fantaztic7; 11-02-2019 at 11:51 AM.

  11. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
    No, the defense hasnít played well all year. They gave up 269 yards rushing at home to the Jaguars. Playing well all year means not giving up game winning drives three times. I can live with allowing a game winning drive once, maybe twice but not three times. They havenít generated enough turnovers and it took what, 5 games to register a sack? Iím not saying they havenít done anything but they arenít where they need to be. Von has been a no-show for most of the season.

    The issue with Bolles is larger than who they could have put at LT. A winning culture cannot have Bolles on the field disrespecting his teammates with garbage play week after week. Fangio needed to address that situation. Put a backup in there and give him help if necessary. Under no circumstance can you let that nonsense continue. Iíve been in situations when someone wasnít pulling their weight - I put that person on the street. Lead, follow or get out of the way.

    Lastly, thereís a difference between aggressive and a stupid decision. The fake punt was a stupid decision.
    I'm not saying the defense is perfect. It's not the best defense in the league. They could have been better against Jacksonville. That being said, we lost that game by 2 points. Had the offense done more than the bare minimum, the defense wouldn't have been in position to lose the game in the first place.

    The team is 8th in points allowed per game. Obviously there's room for improvement. But considering there are only 7 teams in the league better than we are at allowing points yet we're only 2-6, I'm not putting our woes on that side of the ball. It's their first year under a new coach running things his way and half way through the first season our defense is top 10.

    And as I already said regarding Bolles, he should get benched. But they don't exactly have an upgrade to switch him with. They're likely gonna roll with Bolles the rest of the season. The mistake isn't continuing to play him right now. The mistake will be if we don't cut him this offseason and look for a new LT in the draft or free agency.

    As for the fake punt, it's only stupid because we didn't convert. Hindsight is 20/20. Anyone can look at a call that didn't work and say, "oh, that was stupid." I don't blame Fangio for going for something, trying to energize a team that was doing nothing in the game up to that point. Show your players you're still fighting. Show the team you want to win. Did it work? No. That doesn't mean it was the wrong call.

    It's unfair to Fangio to have players calling him out for not being aggressive then at the same time have fans getting on his case when he is being aggressive. You can't have it both ways. Either we want him to be more aggressive and go for 2 point conversions and fake punts, or we want him to be smart and run the ball on third down late in the 4th in a game where we have the lead.

  12. #117
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    The team never improved when Vance was here. The team now looks competitive at least and Vic should get another offseason at least to acquire guys for his system.
    But honestly the problem isnt the defense, which looks good and is the thing Vic is directly controlling. Scangerello isnt looking up for the job (although I think hes having trouble implementing his system with a statue at QB)

  13. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavisMVP View Post
    The second year that Vance was here the talent on the offensive line got worst, the QB got worst, the special teams talent got worst all thanks to Mr. Elway. Coaches can only coach the players they get. Vic will soon see the trash he has to coach.
    You think Simien/Osweiler/Lynch are BETTER than Case Keenum?! I'm hoping the screen on your phone is cracked and you didn't actually get to proof read what you typed before replying...
    Sept. 10, 2006, Den@StL 10-18, Sept. 28, 2008, Den@K.C. 19-33, Nov. 16, 2014, Den@Stl 7-22 <--Broncos games I've attended

  14. #119
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    Thread cleaned.

    I don't think I need to explain why.

    smh
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  15. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megalodon30 View Post
    I'm not saying the defense is perfect. It's not the best defense in the league. They could have been better against Jacksonville. That being said, we lost that game by 2 points. Had the offense done more than the bare minimum, the defense wouldn't have been in position to lose the game in the first place.

    The team is 8th in points allowed per game. Obviously there's room for improvement. But considering there are only 7 teams in the league better than we are at allowing points yet we're only 2-6, I'm not putting our woes on that side of the ball. It's their first year under a new coach running things his way and half way through the first season our defense is top 10.

    And as I already said regarding Bolles, he should get benched. But they don't exactly have an upgrade to switch him with. They're likely gonna roll with Bolles the rest of the season. The mistake isn't continuing to play him right now. The mistake will be if we don't cut him this offseason and look for a new LT in the draft or free agency.

    As for the fake punt, it's only stupid because we didn't convert. Hindsight is 20/20. Anyone can look at a call that didn't work and say, "oh, that was stupid." I don't blame Fangio for going for something, trying to energize a team that was doing nothing in the game up to that point. Show your players you're still fighting. Show the team you want to win. Did it work? No. That doesn't mean it was the wrong call.

    It's unfair to Fangio to have players calling him out for not being aggressive then at the same time have fans getting on his case when he is being aggressive. You can't have it both ways. Either we want him to be more aggressive and go for 2 point conversions and fake punts, or we want him to be smart and run the ball on third down late in the 4th in a game where we have the lead.
    Agree the offense has been the overall issue. As for the fake punt itís not about hindsight. Special Teams had not shown the ability to execute consistently. The smart decision was to pin KC deep and let your defense force a turnover or punt. Instead they gave KC a short field. The Broncos were what, one score behind when they tried the fake punt?Aggressive is taking a deep shot after a turnover, putting your foot on your opponentís throat. Fangio made it harder on the team in that situation. Odds arenít in your favor with a mediocre ST unit.

    As for Bolles, thatís Fangioís worst mistake as a head coach (maybe Elway is dictating?). You canít preach the mantra ďdeath by inchesĒ and let that nonsense continue. By allowing Bolles to continue playing the message delivered is, ďsome players have privilegeĒ. Canít have it.
    Last edited by Fantaztic7; 11-02-2019 at 02:20 PM.

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