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  1. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by kev5ifty6 View Post
    How about that defense.🤔
    They sucked yesterday, no doubt about it. There is no excusing that poor performance. They're still very good statistically, but yesterday was just plain bad.

  2. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megalodon30 View Post
    They sucked yesterday, no doubt about it. There is no excusing that poor performance. They're still very good statistically, but yesterday was just plain bad.
    The Broncos defense is like an offense that can move the ball between the 20s but canít score. Itís not a ďcontenderĒ defense as youíve said. Theyíve given up four leads and havenít shown the ability to consistently close against good teams.

  3. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
    The Broncos defense is like an offense that can move the ball between the 20s but canít score. Itís not a ďcontenderĒ defense as youíve said. Theyíve given up four leads and havenít shown the ability to consistently close against good teams.
    Canít close against bad teams either.

  4. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
    Nor does it make Fangio a better coach. This team isnít better than last year.
    Didn't say it did. I disagree about the team being better, it absolutely is, but coaching doesn't appear to be improved at this time.

    Just pointing out that this doesn't by any means absolve Vance.


  5. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freyaka View Post
    Didn't say it did. I disagree about the team being better, it absolutely is, but coaching doesn't appear to be improved at this time.

    Just pointing out that this doesn't by any means absolve Vance.
    Last season the team had 4 wins through 10 games vs 3 this season. The average margin per loss was 7.8 points last season vs 7.6 this year. They arenít a better team.

  6. #246
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    Sep 2007
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    I can't really say Vance got a raw deal, but it wasn't all his fault either. Bad Oline and QB play have been the same for years. We seem to be in games more with Fangio, but he seems to have no positive impact on the end of games. We haven't scored a 4th quarter TD in 5 or 6 games???? That's ridiculous. We made a few explosive plays in the 1st half but not much in the 2nd. 3rd and 1 in the 4th quarter and we run a sweep with Fant that loses 5 yards??? Allen just had little awareness after running the 1st down and not getting out of bounds. Then we just let needed time run off clock instead of quickly running a play or spiking the ball. As an O coordinator, Scangarello doesn't have any "money plays" to score from around 5 yards out?? How many redzone targets did Sutton get after dominating the whole game?? And why is Fant the most targeted player yesterday (11 targets and only 4 catches)??? I've been very critical of Fant (because I feel he can't play through physicality), but yesterday I put mostly on the playcalling/coaching. Fant is the last person on the field that I would attempt to throw the pass that ended the game. Many are talking about PI, but there was more PI on Fant for pushing off. Either way, a flag isn't usually getting thrown in that situation. Fant is getting better at catching passes when he's wide open, but he hasn't done anything to show he can square up and catch that pass. I put that on the coaching.

    A few weeks ago Fangio said he'll veto a play call if he doesn't like it. I'm not sure how anyone thought throwing a back shoulder fade to Fant was a good idea with the game on the line. Put Sutton there and I have a lot more faith. If they move a safety over to help then that should open up someone else or slow the pass rush. Fant was probably the worst option on the field.
    Last edited by champ&dreallday; 11-18-2019 at 10:25 AM.

  7. #247
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
    Last season the team had 4 wins through 10 games vs 3 this season. The average margin per loss was 7.8 points last season vs 7.6 this year. They arenít a better team.
    What happens when you take away that Cardinals win last year.

    The team is better. VJ was a bad coach. The book is still out on Fangio but he at least has proven to be successful in this league. Something that VJ has never shown.

  8. #248
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    The real issue is the overall mediocre roster and lack of depth. Iím still on the fence with the current staff, but I think itís pretty fair to say there are consistent problems with the roster that many coaches would struggle to overcome.

    Thereís no way this FO can fire yet another HC. This organization needs to stop the turnstile at HC and QB.

    There are some young, exciting players, but depth is a major concern. Of course, the complete inability to fix the QB and OL issues are the most glaring issues.

  9. #249
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    Quote Originally Posted by JW7 View Post
    What happens when you take away that Cardinals win last year.

    The team is better. VJ was a bad coach. The book is still out on Fangio but he at least has proven to be successful in this league. Something that VJ has never shown.
    Play the ďwhat ifĒ all you want. What happens when you take away the Chargers win this year? The Chargers werenít playing well when we got that win - should we take that win away? Of course not. You canít take away one of last seasonís wins. Fangioís prior success doesnít mean anything now.

  10. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
    Play the “what if” all you want. What happens when you take away the Chargers win this year? The Chargers weren’t playing well when we got that win - should we take that win away? Of course not. You can’t take away one of last season’s wins. Fangio’s prior success doesn’t mean anything now.
    I don't like to to play the what if game. Fangio has decades of success as a coach in this league. VJ has had zero years of success as a coach in this league.

    I like he way the team is competing under Fangio and feel they are on the right path. His past successes as a coach should absolutely be considered. Why do you feel this is meaningless?

  11. #251
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    The rankings say the defense is good, but we have 7 losses....And in more than half of the games, the defense has fallen apart in the 4th quarter. How many games have we let the opponent drive and kick the game winning FG. The offense hasn't done the team a lot of favors, but this defense (which falls heavily on Fangio in my book) has been a disappointment when it comes to closing games. They made adjustments and got aggressive after halftime, we did the opposite.

    Diggs is a great WR and everyone should've known they would take some shots deep to get him involved. With that being said, the game plan should've been nothing deep and nothing cheap. The Diggs deep TD and the play to Rudolph were plays a good defense just doesn't give up.

  12. #252
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
    Last season the team had 4 wins through 10 games vs 3 this season. The average margin per loss was 7.8 points last season vs 7.6 this year. They arenít a better team.
    This is a better team... Stats don't tell all the details. You can see improvements all over the field over last year's squad.

    It's not as simple as comparing win/loss and loss margin.

    It's clear to the eye the team is more talented than last year. Coaching staff is still making asanine decisions that minimize the improved talent across the board.


  13. #253
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    Also, to add to jw7 thoughts. Rome wasn't built in a day. Even shanny who everyone wanted was pedestrian in w/l last year, this year, they are killing it. Is takes time with new coaching for everything to come together.

    The signs of improvement are there, they weren't there with Vance. The jury is out on if this staff will pull it together, but it's clear there has been improvement.


  14. #254
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    This thread is still going?

    Cherry picking stats and arguing schemantics cannot make VJ a good coach. - real riveting stuff though

    The ONLY thing I can say about this team, unlike the last three years I see hope.

  15. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freyaka View Post
    This is a better team... Stats don't tell all the details. You can see improvements all over the field over last year's squad.

    It's not as simple as comparing win/loss and loss margin.

    It's clear to the eye the team is more talented than last year. Coaching staff is still making asanine decisions that minimize the improved talent across the board.
    I agree.

    Also this is Fangio's first year and he inherited a 6-10 team. VJ got a 9-7 team one year removed from SB50. At this point in VJ's first year 2017 the win total was the same but we were in the midst of an historic 8-game losing streak having suffered blowout losses (to the P*triots, Eagles, etc.) a humiliating shutout at the hands of the Chargers, and VJ was completely lost and in over his head as the team spiraled down and totally out of control.

    Because Fangio at least knows defense better than VJ, he got that unit turned around and they were playing at a high level (and highly ranked as a result) in the last few games (the D actually got a shutout) up until the second half of yesterday's match when it appeared to have gone home early. At the same time though, keeping an offense as good as the Vikings down -in their yard- as long as they did was no small feat, and it was inevitable that Kubiak would figure it out and get Diggs involved more. The Vikings are a hot team who had just pulled out an astonishing win @Dallas, so sometimes credit simply must be given to the other team and its players more so than leveling blame for not stopping them.

    Under VJ, I think that the Broncos would entered the game @MIN less prepared and it would have been a blowout loss which some were predicting to happen anyway. This year the losses have been close (except with KC) and in some cases decided by poor officiating more than total ineptitude. The team has been mostly competitive which makes me a helluva lot more optimistic about next year than the very bleak outlook we all had back in November of 2017. I don't know how anyone can forget that! The team was a total disaster!

    But yeah there's some rookie coaching mistakes and growing pains with Fange & Scange too and we really need to see how they adjust. Probably a more accurate and fair comparison can be made with VJ after 2020 with two full seasons to look at, but at this point in time Fangio seems to have the edge.
    Last edited by L.M.; 11-18-2019 at 12:58 PM.
    Superbowl 50 MVP Von Miller on February 7th, 2016

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